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Corded corsets and the things we wear over them...

Started by gem, February 09, 2010, 03:25:11 PM

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Goody

Quote from: Adriana Rose on February 12, 2010, 11:33:29 AM
Just a note.

I have never tried to make a hemp boned bodice BUT do keep in mind that hemp does NOT like water and if its exposed to water or moisture too many times it starts to break down. And when it does it gets mushy and smelly.


just my 2cents.

I do love reading about the history of the gowns!

I did have a hemp necklace that got weird when wet and it turned a lil dark and got kinda smelly bit i soaked in in dishsoap and it was fine (plus i think I swam with it and that is when it got kinda gross) and i would'nt say it got mushy but  the fibers did begin to fray and all kinda ratted in on each other. But that's a necklace prolly doesnt apply same as in channels?

operafantomet

Quote from: Goody on February 17, 2010, 09:06:15 AM
Quote from: Adriana Rose on February 12, 2010, 11:33:29 AM
Just a note.

I have never tried to make a hemp boned bodice BUT do keep in mind that hemp does NOT like water and if its exposed to water or moisture too many times it starts to break down. And when it does it gets mushy and smelly.


just my 2cents.

I do love reading about the history of the gowns!

I did have a hemp necklace that got weird when wet and it turned a lil dark and got kinda smelly bit i soaked in in dishsoap and it was fine (plus i think I swam with it and that is when it got kinda gross) and i would'nt say it got mushy but  the fibers did begin to fray and all kinda ratted in on each other. But that's a necklace prolly doesnt apply same as in channels?

That's the cord reacting to the salts in your skin/sweat. Things used directly on the skin will react and change appearance (except, of course, precious metals). This goes for various natural fibres, fishing lines, fake jewellery etc. Though, there might be individual differences, based on your skin type and such.

When hemp cord is used inside channels, it shouldn't be very exposed to the skin, cause there's a layer or two of fabric in between, and the ventilation is different. It may of course depend on the type or quality of the hemp, but I've made three bodices with hemp boning so far, and they all seem to behave well. However, I've used the same hemp type for all of them. Maybe I should try a different one next time?

gem

One thing I noticed (and don't remember seeing anyone remark on before) was that the hemp that I used, which came in big spools like crochet thread, was *much* smoother and easier to work with when coming from the outside of the spool/bundle.  Once I started getting to the inside of the spool, the cord was a lot more crimped and curly and unruly, harder to coax into the channels, etc.  Since I think this stuff is sold for jewelry, it made me wonder how they intended people to deal with that--it's way too curly at the moment for a necklace cord, for instance.  Iron it? Soak it so the crimps relax, then wait for it to dry?

Kate XXXXXX

Try stretching it out and steaming it with the iron.

Mythrin

I have ironed/steamed it as Kate suggested.  You are right in your observation on the inside being way more crimpy (I am sure it is a word) than the outside.  I find myself having to work around knots and bumps more on the inside of ball than the outside.  i have been known to dispose of certain sections that are particularly bad.
Chris
Founding member of the Living History Company

"go Secret Squirrels"

gem

Well, I have the whole thing corded (yay!!), and it's on hold for the moment until I can do a fitting (not for a couple of weeks; I need to work off a couple of pounds of winter weight!  :o). It went together remarkably quickly.  In the meantime, I need to teach myself to use the eyelet function on my Viking.  ;D

Kate XXXXXX

It's fun!  Remember: silk thread and go round twice!   8)

Cilean



Hey Gem,

First Part: I got my inspiration from Jennifer's site:
http://festiveattyre.com/research/cording/cord.html

I went to Drea Leed's workshop
here are some pictures of different stuffing









On so the 2nd thought!
I wore mine under my Summer Elizabethans and my Italians!  I camped with it and it was awesome! I did have to put some steal boning in the front channels, due to being a DD.


Cilean


Lady Cilean Stirling
"Looking Good is not an Option, It is a Necessity"
My Motto? Never Pay Retail

amy

I have a question about the corded corsets..... I am presently working on my first boned corset and chose the zip tie version.   I fitted a sample knowing that after I ran the casings and installed the bones, it would pull up a bit smaller.   When I see all those many channels and the thickness of some of that cording, I wonder - how can you tell how much the piece will shrink when you add the 3 dimentional cording?  Do you find that they are much tighter when finished as compared to when you fitted the flat sample?

Thanks... hope someone knows?

gem

Amy, I didn't measure my first Simplicity corset before boning it, but after cording the new one, I did lay it over top of the finished one... and it's about 3/4" smaller. I used the exact same amount of boning in both corsets--just used the recommended boning diagram (minus the busk).  That's with a size 12. I knew that the hemp cord would make it shrink up a little. I'm not sure that there's an exact ratio, though. It would depend on how much boning you used, etc.

Aunty Lou

Regarding the "shrinkage" of the corset with th cording in place...  This is where you would cut the pattern a little wider in the seam allowances, and then fit the semi-corded bodice as you go.  Just like knowing that clay will shrink when drying, knowing that the fabric will draw up when stuffed is going forewarned...

amy

Thanks for the input.  I am considering using your ideas for some gentle stiffening in the actual bodice of my next dress and wondered if it would be too extreme a choice and alter my dress pattern fit too much.  I already have the challenge of fitting on myself so that is a bit of a guess to begin with.  Thanks for your help!

gem

Amy, I'm getting ready to try using the Simplicity corset pattern as the bodice for a gown (transferring the lacing from the center back to the side back seams), and I'm thinking of cording it. I'm considering cutting one size up and making a fully-corded mockup, to compare sizes/shrinkage.

The one thing I haven't figured out is how to keep the cording ridges from showing, if you use a corded interlining. With a heavy fabric it probably wouldn't be a problem, but with something like linen, I think it would show through (tho' nobody seems to address this in dress diaries, so perhaps I'm imagining an issue that doesn't really exist). IIRC, Kate once said something about wool felt between the underlining and the outer fabric. Another option is to use the really skinny cording and use 4 rows per channel instead of 2 (which is what I think Artemisia has done).


amy

I figured the same about the cords showing through on the finish fabric.  I would use it in the inner lining, and knew I would need a pretty stiff interfacing to keep it smooth.  But now that I think about it, over my new corset I think I am setting myself up for being unbearably hot.   I think I'll just stick to a few carefully placed light weight bones set into the seam lines. 

I'll be looking foward to seeing your new corset patterned bodice!

operafantomet

Quote from: gem on February 28, 2010, 01:10:34 PM
The one thing I haven't figured out is how to keep the cording ridges from showing, if you use a corded interlining. With a heavy fabric it probably wouldn't be a problem, but with something like linen, I think it would show through (tho' nobody seems to address this in dress diaries, so perhaps I'm imagining an issue that doesn't really exist). IIRC, Kate once said something about wool felt between the underlining and the outer fabric. Another option is to use the really skinny cording and use 4 rows per channel instead of 2 (which is what I think Artemisia has done).

I interlined my green Unicorn dress bodice, with a layer of the slubby silk like the one I used for lining. From some angles and in specific light the channels can still be seen:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/unicorn/unicornclose.jpg

Though in general the surface looks very smooth and nice, you really need to see it in a specific light to notice. But if I were to make the bodice anew, I would probably use wool felt or something under the silk, to make the surface even smoother. That is also a period approach. I've written an article about corsets in Italy in the 16th century (or the lack thereof), and this is some of the stuff I found:

"The padding of the garment was obtained by an internal layering of the fabrics, the doppia, made up of a felt and two types of cloth, one stiffened and one finer, San Gallo cloth or bottana, and for girls even cotton bambagino or bombast. (...) Usually this thick padding was covered with silk or even with taffeta of the same colour as the petticoat, and care was taken to choose the same or similar colours even for the fabrics of the inner padding." (Moda a Firenze 2004: 84pp).

( http://aneafiles.webs.com/renaissancegallery/stays.html )

This is exciting, because it tells that stiff cloth (or even linen cardboard "in a Spanish system") was used to stiffen the bodices, and around it one used felt and silk to make the surface smooth. Hemped fabric can function as a replacement for stiff cloth and cardboard, so I think the same padding can be used with success.