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How important is authenticity?

Started by CarvedTones, March 31, 2010, 03:52:45 PM

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CarvedTones

I am making historically inspired musical instruments and I wondered what the general consensus is. I have seen the extremes - some insist on a faithful reproduction of a specific instrument using the same source woods, finish, tools and techniques. At the other end of the spectrum is the guy strumming his Ovation. I think most people are in between.
Because I am making medieval woodwinds, one of the toughest for me is that there are few extant instruments and a lot of the ones that do exist were found in latrines. Were they dropped there by accident or are we patterning modern replicas after cast offs? No one knows for sure. I am okay with something I can make a strong case for as being likely, such as a one piece flute/whistle (side blown or end blown) with 6-8 holes on top and one or none on the underside.
Source wood? Maple and beech, like the Tartu recrder, are easy but I am using American variaties.
Tuning? This is a tough one. The ones I am making right now are modern, but they are for session players. I can punt on this one for now, but I am interested on hearing thoughts.
I am using an oil finish that is period correct though not necessarily geographically correct. Pure tung oil thinned with turps or spirits provides a better finish than boiled linseed oil.

I am curious to get feedback. Would you consider such woodwinds "authentic"? I am not positive on that. I would debate the point if someone said they were not period correct, but I can see how a real stickler might.
-Andy

will paisley

Sorry, but this reminds me of an old joke:

Quote
A soldier was asked to report to the headquarters sergeant for an assignment.

The sergeant said, "We have a critical shortage of typists. I'll give you a little test. Type this," he ordered, giving him a pamphlet to copy and a sheet of paper, and pointing to a desk across the room that held a typewriter and an adding machine.

The man, quite reluctant to become a clerk typist, made a point of typing very slowly, and saw to it that his work contained as many errors as possible.

The sergeant gave the typed copy only a brief glance. "That's fine,"" he said. "Report for work at 8 tomorrow."

"But aren't you going to check the test?" the prospective clerk asked.

The sergeant grinned. "You passed the test," he replied, "when you sat down at the typewriter instead of at the adding machine."

You passed the "period" test when you chose wood instead of plastic.  Not having a Yamaha logo on it is and extra plus.
Minstrel, Interrupted, Bard #400 (CD)
Faire Name: "Flo's Husband"
Yeoman-Purser of the Frigate Up Royally

CarvedTones

The all metal and all plastic "woodwinds" don't sit well with me. Don't get me wrong, those are two of the finest fabrication materials that never lived. But you can't breathe life back into something that never had life. They are like synthesizers that use air instead of electronics. OK, rant off...
-Andy

LaVel

Hi Carved Tones,

How important authenticity is depends a lot on who the target market is for your product.  

In a renfaire setting if you are looking to set up a booth and sell instruments to patrons, then the fact that you use wood rather than plastic is about as far as you need to go and anything over and above that is "bonus".  

If you are looking to sell to the musicians who peform at faires, then it depends on how authentic those performers want to be and/or how authentic a given faire requires their shows to be.  Faires run the gamut from those that make a brief nod to history and little else to those that are very concerned with authenticity so it would probably be helpful for you to talk to the performers and/or entertainment directors of whatever faires you are considering selling at to see what their requirements are if the performer is your target market.

LaVel

CarvedTones

Quote from: LaVel on March 31, 2010, 08:04:20 PM
If you are looking to sell to the musicians who peform at faires, then it depends on how authentic those performers want to be and/or how authentic a given faire requires their shows to be.  Faires run the gamut from those that make a brief nod to history and little else to those that are very concerned with authenticity so it would probably be helpful for you to talk to the performers and/or entertainment directors of whatever faires you are considering selling at to see what their requirements are if the performer is your target market.

That is what I am trying to do here - "talk" to performers as well as other faire folk that want period accessories.
-Andy

Poldugarian Warrior

I'm only a patron, and a lover of music and musical instruments. I think that if you sell wood instruments to patrons, then your already done. Using natural materials is the major difference in a cheap reproduction and a good reproduction. As far as getting the material region correct or ethnicity correct, those are only important to serious musicians. And even they know you can't be perfect, you can be perfect, but it will cost a lot of money, and your production levels will suffer, because of the amount of time it would take to produce a purely period piece. So I think your doing a fine job, your pic as your avatar speaks volumes of your work. Kudos to you for undertaking such a task.

CarvedTones

Interesting you mention the picture because it is a study of the irony of "traditional woodworking" in the modern age. The workpiece is hard maple, but I am pretty sure the source is Canada; definitely not northern Europe. It's on a small clamping work table that folds up (like a WorkMate) and the chisel in the picture is a cheap Asian product. Authenticity at its finest  :D .

I would not use the clamping table at a show, but I would use a modern chisel of traditional design no matter where it came from. Oddly enough, most of my European carving tools would look more out of place because of the highly polished steel.

Wood choice I touched on, but is another topic that has a very interesting bit of irony. The medieval woodwind maker air dried riven blanks of locally available wood in his shop. If I rive my own blanks out of fresh cut local red maple logs, rough turn them round and air dry them before boring and final turning, I think I am probably more period accurate than if I were to order a board of European maple cut at a sawmill, kiln dried and shipped thousands of miles. If the log were honey locust or sweetgum (both acoustically sound choices), is the product less authentic?
-Andy

Poldugarian Warrior

Think piracy. Many of the fine woodworks of the medieval to renaissance age were made from exotic woods, and so I would say come up with a story that your a woodwind maker here in the New World around 1590-1600, and making your instruments from the local Maple wood, it would be too expensive to have wood shipped from Europe, so I'd say the authenticity is there, because then pirates or merchants would take your woodwinds back to Europe and sell them. Because your just that good a craftsman.

CarvedTones

Quote from: Poldugarian Warrior on May 18, 2010, 06:31:04 AM
Think piracy. Many of the fine woodworks of the medieval to renaissance age were made from exotic woods, and so I would say come up with a story that your a woodwind maker here in the New World around 1590-1600, and making your instruments from the local Maple wood, it would be too expensive to have wood shipped from Europe, so I'd say the authenticity is there, because then pirates or merchants would take your woodwinds back to Europe and sell them. Because your just that good a craftsman.

I live less than 100 miles inland on the Mid-Atlantic coast of the US, so interestingly enough there are a lot more opportunities to play that part than there are ren faires. Local woods are no problem in those venues, of course.
-Andy

Prof. John Bull

Andy,

Most fest musicians don't use period instruments.  The only period music I hear at fest is a capella vocal music, and that's mostly unique to MNRF, because of the unusually strong choral singing tradition in Minnesota in general.

In my band we have experimented with recorders and ended up using a modern flute because we need the volume and control and ability to play in all keys, and we can't get that from a period instrument.


Rapier Half-Wit

I think that it is admirable the time, effort and attention you are giving your product. Thank you. I wish there were more like you at faire. I know that I am tired of walking past shops that are crammed full of items that are stamped "made in china".

Any thing else I said would only be reitterating what others have already posted here.

Keep up the good work.
If her eyes aren't sparkling, you didn't do it right...

Poldugarian Warrior

Unfortunately, Prof. Bull is right period instruments no matter how well made, just don't have the projection modern metal wind instruments have. But, as we all know back then groups watching the music shows and the crowds were in a much smaller setting when it came to musical performances and most were by mouth only not many instruments were used. But, do what you feel is right and go with it. But, as of right now I think your doing fine.

groomporter

You were saying Medieval, but wouldn't coming forward a little to the Renaissance period provide a more surviving examples?

Also I assume you would tune them to fit the modern standard for concert pitch so they are more easily playable with modern instruments -as opposed to the pitch of a exact replica from before it was standardized?

Have you compared prices to similar, but later styles of instruments on the market? Servicable, and inexpensive maple colonial-style fifes like the one I used to play when my old Scottish military group was marching (when we had no bagpiper) can be had for about $20. Cooperman "traditional model" fifes seem to be ranging from $45 to $130 these days depending on the wood. Sweetheart flutes is another potential source to compare your pricing to.
When you die can you donate your body to pseudo-science?

Prof. John Bull

On the other hand, really well-made recorders typically sell for around $2000, from Dolmetsch and similar makers.

Any maker of replica instruments has to decide whether they're gearing their pricing and craftsmanship towards musicians or merely creating a prop.

Poldugarian Warrior

Yep, and who wants just a prop when it comes to instruments. I mean $20 is a deal when its a real wooden fife or recorder. I have a black plastic fife, and I like it, though I don't play professionally, but it goes without saying, that would be just a good prop piece, and I could explain away the plastic as very thin black bone, or bamboo, since bamboo has a very close feel too plastic. But, any type of actual woodwind made from wood is much better.