Can I Rant for a Moment?

[Elennare]

So, my husband and I, and several of our friends all play a tabletop wargame.  One of our friends found a new one that he's trying to get us into.  It looked interesting, so last night my husband and I went to the game store to learn how it works.

This is the second time we've been in this particular store.  The first time was not on a gaming night, so there wasn't much going on and no one to show us how the game worked.  So, we go in, and people seem nice enough.  They told us that the guy who's job it is to teach new people the game stepped out and would be back in a little bit.  So, we wait for him to get back, and when he does the guy we had been talking to calls him over and says we should introduce ourselves.

Guy introduces himself to my husband, let's my husband introduce himself, and then launches into his spiel without even looking at me.  No chance for me to introduce myself or explain that I am also interested in learning how this game works.  He introduces my husband to the other guy he was teaching the game to, and proceeds to explain to the two of them how it works, and starts a demo game between them.

Whole time, I'm standing there, looking at the cards used to play, listening to how it works, dude acts like I'm invisible.  This dispite my husband interjecting several times about how I play games and am also a nerd.  It was like he didn't connect that I was the "wife" mentioned, despite my husband making it very obvious that I was who he was talking about.  I asked 2 questions during the demo game.  Dude answered, with a supprised look on his face, and then went back to pretending I was invisible.

The game looks like it will be fun, and I bought an army book for it, but I'm still not convinced that I will like going to that shop to play.  I think the way the dude acted actually made me more upset than when I was refered to as my husband's "secretary" while I was writing up MY army list before a game with him.  That time at least the guys corrected his behavior when he was told that no, I played as well.

This dude, he took the stupid stereotype that women are NEVER interested in actually playing these sorts of games to a whole new level.  I don't think I've ever had someone so completely refuse to acknowledge my existance before.  Why are people so stupid?!?   

[Amras Elfwine]

Elannare, I feel your pain...as the Captain of a Privateer schooner who's crew is 85% female, and as a man who married a woman who is 100% smarter than he is, I have seen this behavior 'mongst the common folk everywhere...my opinion on this is that if you enjoy the game, play on, and if you don't enjoy this game shoppe, well, there're plenty of OTHER merchants out there who know that ladies such as yourself make great gamers and even greater customers...cheers!

Amras Elfwine, Geek and Nerd
Master and Commander of The Rose of Sharon,
Happily Married to a Lady of Superior Intelligence

[DonaCatalina]

The IQ pyramid.
I play war games too occasionally and it is difficult for most younger guys to take me seriously.
But keep playing if you enjoy it. There are a lot of guys who will make great team players and not take you for granted.

[SandrineDeLaTombe]

Something similar happened to me a couple years ago. There is a tabletop gaming stores at one of my local malls.  I don't play table top games, but the items in the store looked interesting and I wanted to check it out.  I walked in two steps, every man (no women in the store) stopped and looked at me like I was a gunslinger that just walked into the old west bar.  I turned and walked right back out. I think had I asked one of them a question, they might have spontaneously combusted from the estrogen present.

I really enjoy when I go into comic and video game shops, and it takes a few minutes for the men working to pay attention to me once they realize I know what the heck I'm talking about.

[Ferret]

If it is the "guys" job to teach new people, he should have his boss on his a** for ignoring any customer.
Ferret

[Bonny Pearl]

I would have told my hubby it was time to leave.  

Is this a chain?  Make a formal complaint.

edit.....

Wow....I'm irked by that, what a #%@* *%#^&, etc, etc 

[Elennare]

Thanks for the kind words.

I have every intention of continuing to play.  I'm just fed up with having to prove that I belong there and should be treated like an actual person insted of my husband's accessory every time I go to a new gaming store.  Usually it doesn't bother me that much (having a traditionaly male career and several traditionaly male hobbies, I'm kinda used to being the only women w/a bunch of men and everything that goes along with that), but last night was a new low and apparently it really got to me (thanks for letting me rant .

Sadly, I think this is the only establishment in the area that sells/has gaming areas for this particular game. 

I'm not sure if the demo guy is actually employed by the gaming store (which is not a chain, that I'm aware of).  It was clear that he is at least in some fashion compensated for doing this by the company that makes the game.  Then there was a comment that sounded like he may have been the store manager, but he was wearing an employee badge from a different company, so I have no idea.

Something similar happened to me a couple years ago. There is a tabletop gaming stores at one of my local malls.  I don't play table top games, but the items in the store looked interesting and I wanted to check it out.  I walked in two steps, every man (no women in the store) stopped and looked at me like I was a gunslinger that just walked into the old west bar.  I turned and walked right back out. I think had I asked one of them a question, they might have spontaneously combusted from the estrogen present.

I've had that happen before.  I've also had guys refuse to allow me access to the table to set my models up during a really big game until the store employees yelled at them.  And I've had several versions of the "secretary" comment, and one dude who decided it would fun to give me a hard time about my (all female) army by yelling a bunch of derogatory names for women in my face and then act all confused when I got upset.  There's lots of cool guys who play (and one or two other women), but man, do the jerks get annoying sometimes.  And it's funny (sad funny) when the same jerks can then never figure out why there aren't more women interested in the hobby.

[SirRichardBear]

I've been running table top war games for 20 years more really and sad to say I've seen this type of behavior far to often.  I've even had some guys who say they don't want women in their game because it will ruin the game.   I have no idea were this idea that women either aren't interested or will disrupt the game comes from.   All I can say is if you show up at one of the Conventions were I'm running the game I'll be more than happy to explain the game, invite you to play, teach you the rules, and when you beat me be the first to congrate you on a well played game. 

Sad it say I had one of my student's a girl of 10 drop out of my martial arts class because someone told her that girls can't or shouldn't do martial arts and she believed them. 

[Auryn]

Oh man,
this kind of behavior from people really gets me riled up.
He is lucky I wasn't there with you because the second time he ignored me I would have interrupted him and with all politeness and a smile on my face I would have made him feel like a jackass.

I've had this kind of behavior from men and women in the marine industry but I don't put up with it for long. I don't think it can get any more ignorant than what that guy did to you.

Is the store where you went a store you have frequented before?? Wether it is or not I would send an email to the store manager and let them know what happened and that because of this nit wit you feel unwelcome in his store.
Complaining about it is the only way this kind of idiocy gets solved. You might not change the jerk's attitude or belief but he will at least have to treat you with respect.

[Ferret]

I have every intention of continuing to play.  I'm just fed up with having to prove that I belong there and should be treated like an actual person insted of my husband's accessory every time I go to a new gaming store.  Usually it doesn't bother me that much (having a traditionaly male career and several traditionaly male hobbies, I'm kinda used to being the only women w/a bunch of men and everything that goes along with that), but last night was a new low and apparently it really got to me (thanks for letting me rant .

I admire you for that.

I'm in an industry where there aren't a lot of women. And one thing I learned. When you come across one, they are very special. And memorable.

Thank you for being that kind of Lady !
Ferret

[Ferret]

I've been running table top war games for 20 years more really and sad to say I've seen this type of behavior far to often.  I've even had some guys who say they don't want women in their game because it will ruin the game.   I have no idea were this idea that women either aren't interested or will disrupt the game comes from.   All I can say is if you show up at one of the Conventions were I'm running the game I'll be more than happy to explain the game, invite you to play, teach you the rules, and when you beat me be the first to congrate you on a well played game. 

Sad it say I had one of my student's a girl of 10 drop out of my martial arts class because someone told her that girls can't or shouldn't do martial arts and she believed them. 

I ran into that attitude one morning golfing. There was a foursome of ladies. Then a foursome of guys, and then my foursome. The guys refused to tee off until the ladies left the next green. Even on the long holes.

Funny though, if the foursome of guys were honest on their score cards, there wasn't a one who broke a hundred. We chatted with the ladies when we were done. Two broke par, one hit par, one hit one over.

It was those guys that didn't belong out there. Not the ladies. The ladies were awesome.
Ferret

[Noble Dreg]

Elennare, I think your all wrong on this...I mean what kind of guy wants women to be part of their fantasy life...Uhm, OK, I totally don't get it...

Best revenge, kick their butts at their "own" game!  Of course if they're TV stereotype nerds they probably just never had a conversation with a girl that didn't involve a keyboard.  Next time text!

[ladylissame]

I've been lucky that in my husband's group of D&D players, they have all been very receptive of me and offering to teach me (I tried it. Just didn't enjoy it. But I love to watch the game).

I agree that you should complain. Find out the General Manager's contact and complain.

[Elennare]

Best revenge, kick their butts at their "own" game!  

I intend to!  

Contact the Manager and complain...

The problem is, from what I heard people in the store saying, I think the jerk may BE the manager.

[captmarga]

Guy introduces himself to my husband, let's my husband introduce himself, and then launches into his spiel without even looking at me.  No chance for me to introduce myself or explain that I am also interested in learning how this game works.  He introduces my husband to the other guy he was teaching the game to, and proceeds to explain to the two of them how it works, and starts a demo game between them.

Whole time, I'm standing there, looking at the cards used to play, listening to how it works, dude acts like I'm invisible. 

Had something like that happen when car shopping.  The salesman was trying to pitch to my husband.  He stood there, stood there, didn't say a word.  Finally he looked the guy straight in the eye and said, "You just blew it.  SHE'S the one who has the checkbook".  We then both turned and walked away...

Capt Marga (now Jofranka)

[Lady L]

I have had similar experiences when shopping for a house, a car, other items. R is not the one that makes those decisions, I am. They direct their comments/spiel to him and ignore me. Those are the people that do NOT get the sale.

[Rapier Half-Wit]

So, my husband and I, and several of our friends all play a tabletop wargame.  One of our friends found a new one that he's trying to get us into.  It looked interesting, so last night my husband and I went to the game store to learn how it works.

This is the second time we've been in this particular store.  The first time was not on a gaming night, so there wasn't much going on and no one to show us how the game worked.  So, we go in, and people seem nice enough.  They told us that the guy who's job it is to teach new people the game stepped out and would be back in a little bit.  So, we wait for him to get back, and when he does the guy we had been talking to calls him over and says we should introduce ourselves.

Guy introduces himself to my husband, let's my husband introduce himself, and then launches into his spiel without even looking at me.  No chance for me to introduce myself or explain that I am also interested in learning how this game works.  He introduces my husband to the other guy he was teaching the game to, and proceeds to explain to the two of them how it works, and starts a demo game between them.

Whole time, I'm standing there, looking at the cards used to play, listening to how it works, dude acts like I'm invisible.  This dispite my husband interjecting several times about how I play games and am also a nerd.  It was like he didn't connect that I was the "wife" mentioned, despite my husband making it very obvious that I was who he was talking about.  I asked 2 questions during the demo game.  Dude answered, with a supprised look on his face, and then went back to pretending I was invisible.

The game looks like it will be fun, and I bought an army book for it, but I'm still not convinced that I will like going to that shop to play.  I think the way the dude acted actually made me more upset than when I was refered to as my husband's "secretary" while I was writing up MY army list before a game with him.  That time at least the guys corrected his behavior when he was told that no, I played as well.

This dude, he took the stupid stereotype that women are NEVER interested in actually playing these sorts of games to a whole new level.  I don't think I've ever had someone so completely refuse to acknowledge my existance before.  Why are people so stupid?!?  

I don't understand why any man would act that way towards a woman. But, there's always the possibility that he was jealous of your shoes and found your husband much more **FABULOUS**, if you catch my politically incorrect drift. He's standing in a room full of men and he treats the only lady in sight as if she doesn't exist? Yeah, I'm betting.....

[Lady Christina de Pond]

i've ran into it before gaming when i played xbox live i had guys who had to have me in there team because i was female i've had guys who were just thrilled to hear a girl play and i've had a few who didn't want to play with me because i was a woman
i think some guys do have an issue with us gamer girls but some guys are cool with us maybe rapier is onto something
or he's just a jerk and is afraid he will loose to a woman

[serenamoonsilver]

I think every woman gamer has run into this sort of behavior at least once.  I was once rejected from a World of Warcraft guild because I was a woman and "women cause to much drama".

That said though, I've met some guys who are standoffish at first because they simple haven't had a lot of interaction with the opposite sex and as one of my guy friends put it, "I was scared ****less that I was going to say soemthing stupid and offend you."

[ladylissame]

I still remember one time when I went out to laser tag with my then-fiance-now-husband and a group of his friend.
I was talking with our friend Pastry and his friend John was there. Pastry and I were discussing warlocks in World of Warcraft. His friend John was practically drooling when he asked "You play WoW???" "Yea, I have an 80 mage." Pastry looked at him and said "Don't get your hopes up. She's engaged to him (pointing to my husband)" He looked like a kicked puppy.
A lot of gamer guys don't seem to know how to deal with females.

[Zardoz]

Consider where you were! You spooked a guy that might not have talked to a woman for weeks!     My wife gets it all the time, just like the episode of The Big Bang Theory where Penny goes in the comics store...

[Rapier Half-Wit]

I live love that show.... 

[Sir Ironhead]

Mongoose Publishing put out a series of books for 3rd Ed D&D called "The Slayer's Guide".  There was one for female gamers.

One of the comments from the back cover:
"You cannot truly understand the alien motivations and desires of the Female Gamer, your mind is just not mapped out in the same way but this book may contain a few warnings and signs to look out for so you can avoid the dangers."

Some of the subjects covered are:
The historical role of the female gamer, the physiology of female gamers, feminine magic and prestige classes.

[Butch]

I was thinking along the lines of Serena, LadyLissame, and Zardoz:  these guys probably have no social skills with the opposite sex.  So, they presume women have no interest in them, and women are so far above them, that they don't even feel worthy to talk to you (women).

Not all of these gamers, but obviously, the gentleman with whom you were dealing.

Too bad for him; now kick his behind at his own game!

[DeadBishop]

You need to come up to MN in Feb.  We have a game con "Con of the North", and I'd say that at least 1/3 of the gamers are female.  Believe me, if any customer/gamer were to get ignored, that booth/table would be losing a lot of business, so everyone gets catered to equally.