Ren Faire History Snobs

[Valiss]

I came across this website a while back and meant to share it with you guys:

The Ren Faire History Snobs
http://tribes.tribe.net/renfairehistorysnobs

Basically, it's like a faire forum, but they put a lot of emphasis on authenticity. Now some faires require you to be accurate and some play a little lose with the garb, but there is some good info in there for everyone I'd think. Note that just like any other forum there are random posts about off topic stuff, but if you are looking to find some period-accurate info, these guys seem to do some good digging.

Personally, I'm not hardcore about my garb mainly because the faires we go to aren't too strict. But I know people that work the larger faires and they have some pretty strict rules about what to wear and not wear. That said, I do try to be as accurate as possible and dont go over the top, or get too much into the local fair trends (i.e. wearing a tail). I try to make it look somewhat legit where ever possible.

Anyway, enjoy!

[bellevivre]

and I'm no longer accurate with my stuff because it's too darn HOT! but thanks for sharing- this should be a neat site!

[Master James]

Being on cast at the Virginia Renaissance Faire, we try to be as accurate as we can but also be entertaining.  This site looks very interesting.  Thanks for posting it.

[Rowan MacD]

and I'm no longer accurate with my stuff because it's too darn HOT!

Amen.  I would rather be cool than HA.  Fainting ladies may be period, but I don't like to be sick.  



  Wow, I just got seriously sidetracked in that site.  There is so much STUFF.
Thanks.

[Valiss]

Yeah I hear ya on the heat issue. A couple of faires we go to each year are during the summer and are a bit warm. But I know some faires require the accurate garb regardless of temp.  Even if I need to modify my garb a bit, I still try to error on the side of authenticity, when possbile.

[Laird Fraser of Lovatt]

Lucky the Garb Nazi's don't visit TRF very often.  I'm quite sure they would've had seizures over the guy in SS regalia, the Star Wars Stormtroopers and the Gene Simmons impersonator, last year...




...and it goes downhill from there... 

[bellevivre]

and dont forget Ash from Army of Darkness!

[Lady Nicolette]

I'm not in favor of garb nazis, but having been a participant and playtron of the original RPF, I think there is a lot of merit in trying to come up to the bar and meet some sort of criteria...Especially when one is a participant as opposed to being a playtron or patron of the faire.  That being said, wear what makes you comfortable and happy and have fun!

[Valiss]

I'm not in favor of garb nazis, but having been a participant and playtron of the original RPF, I think there is a lot of merit in trying to come up to the bar and meet some sort of criteria...Especially when one is a participant as opposed to being a playtron or patron of the faire.
That being said, wear what makes you comfortable and happy and have fun!

My problem is when "being comfortable" at a ren faire involves someone wearing a storm troopers outfit, or even a Jack Sparrow costume as if it is part of the experience. To me, that really breaks down the illusion the fare promoters try so hard to create. It's like they aren't even trying! That said, I have seen three different types of faires: strict, average and fantasy. Strict faires (like Southern Faire in L.A.) require participants to go to workshops and have thier costumes inspected. The average faires are the smaller ones that want you to dress in period garb, but only somewhat enforce it. Fantasy faires are were things like fairys and storm troopers and harry potter belong. I dont have a problem with any of the above, I just want people to dress appropiately for whichever type they are attending.

[Lady Nicolette]

I agree, Valiss that some people stretch it pretty far.  In my day, I stood inspection many times by Phyllis Patterson herself and passed. 
Storm troopers can seem kind of silly at faire and other eras are by degrees less believable or not, depending.  I can't say that I've ever been completely H/A, however, nor had endless money to spend and am not clever with needle and thread.  But I try to be close or at least somehow passable.  In my day, we all looked askance at Faeries, which are generally accepted (I know I'll get a lot of heat for that, but it's just true) and certainly at some other garb.  Sadly, it's one of the reasons why there is little photographic evidence of the original Faires (not that the Fae weren't showing up on camera  ). So there is reason to be lenient!

In the 70's there were many who came sporting the basic glam look (especially as close to Hollywood as we were) as well as those who tried as well as they could to be in period, no matter what part of the world they were from.  During the 80's there were a lot of Goth people and throughout there have been others who aren't exactly attaining what would help the illusion.    A lot of those who can't even come close make the difference of whether many a Faire can continue or not.  It's better with the illusion, but it's better to have Faire at all, even if not everyone gets it or can even play along, whatever the reason.

[RumbaRue]

The reality of it is that the majority of people who come as guests to Ren-faires honestly don't give a friggin' hoot as to knowing what is correct and not. They come for the fun, to be entertained, get drunk, and generally have a good time.
It's even more obvious with pirates. People in correct sailor garb are hardly noticed as anything, but give a nice frock coat, cocked hat and a colorful pallet and people immediately know that person is a pirate.

[Capt Robertsgrave Thighbiter]

Some one already said it. Renaissance Faires are ENTERTAINMENT.  Not a history lesson, not a historical re-creation.
The public will pay money for entertainment. Try and charge $$ to have history lessons on the bloodline of the kings of England or the sumptuary laws of the Renaissance or the role of the Papacy during the same period. 

The history snobs or garb nazis would love nothing more then to have everything historicaly accurate, and for a living history exhibit thats fine.  Living history is not a Renn Faire.  A good example is Civil War living history events.  Never were there garb nazis like CW re-enactors.  And I give them credit , along with folks who do LH for COlonial Williamsburg and some of the pirate events we perform at.  This is thier hobby and they take it very seriously.  However,  I doubt the general public is going to pay $25 at the gate and $8 for a turkey leg to stand around and watch period sailors make rope from scratch, Civil War soldiers cast lead mini-balls over a campfire or see renaissance period serfs thresh wheat or make bread.

Faire Management can insist that employees wear what they dictate, acording to that particular Faires philosophy. However, patrons are going to wear what ever they damn well feel like wearing, and if its Johnny Depp look alike week,  Imperial Storm Troopers, Sherlock Holmes or Conan the Barbarian all attending a Arturian based Faire, I guarantee that they will all have thier entrance fees accepted.

[Queen Bonnie]

 I am completely authentic- for a lady wizard! LOL. I love fantasy and history. Guess there is room for us all.

[Noble Dreg]

...the guy in SS regalia...

Now that is a true "Garb Nazi"!

And completely sick...by no stretch of any imagination, innappropriate and distasteful.  Stunned management at TRF is THAT open.

[midnightferret]

Yep, as Capt. Thighbiter asserts, Renaissance Festivals are *Theme Parks*. Sad, but true. We are lucky they haven't completely deteriorated into Disney/Six Flags type places, but for the price of admission, people may participate in the "history" part of the Faire as much or as little as they choose. When I first started with the faires at 15, I was all into trying to be HA, but now I really like my black chemise and other less HA garb pieces. I can't help it! It's more fun and I feel prettier in my less HA garb. Hey, I'm an adult who plays dress-up. What do you want?

Some one already said it. Renaissance Faires are ENTERTAINMENT.  Not a history lesson, not a historical re-creation.
The public will pay money for entertainment. Try and charge $$ to have history lessons on the bloodline of the kings of England or the sumptuary laws of the Renaissance or the role of the Papacy during the same period. .... However, patrons are going to wear what ever they damn well feel like wearing, and if its Johnny Depp look alike week,  Imperial Storm Troopers, Sherlock Holmes or Conan the Barbarian all attending a Arturian based Faire, I guarantee that they will all have thier entrance fees accepted.

[Valiss]

I'm not sure why "Theme Park" would somehow exclude being Historically Accurate. Perhaps each faire is different, but I can assure you that many claim to be not simply entertainment, but accurate representations of the time period. For example, here is the little blurb from the SLO Faire website:

"The Central Coast Renaissance Festival is produced by History Revisited, a non-profit corporation founded in September, 1992 for the purpose of re-enacting historical time periods for the education and entertainment of the public."

And there are plenty of non-HA people at that faire.

It certianly sounds like to me that they are trying to be historically accurate, while also being entertaining; at least to some degree. And I know I've seen plenty of actors wearing non-period stuff too. I bet many faires say something similar to this and either don't enforce it, dont care, or the majority of the patrons just dont relize it. Or maybe they all started off as HA and slowly slid down to fantasy. So long as the dollars are flowing through the gate, maybe some of the faires dont care. I certainly don't mind fantasty stuff at some faires, but it seems to be that if you are going to say you are HA, then you should at least try to be HA. There are entire Fantasy Faires just for all the vampires and fairys to attend.

[Kate]

None of us were there so how can we prove there WEREN'T Storm Troopers?  DaVinci had some pretty ridiculous inventions.  I think I'll start a movement suggesting HE created the Death Star....

[Noble Dreg]

...Or maybe they all started off as HA and slowly slid down to fantasy...

Can't say I consider it a "slide down".  I believe it was not your intent but this is the attitude groups like the SCA take, and the reason terms like "Garb Nazi" and "History Snob" get tossed about.  Seems those who want HA look down on those who don't.  You will never find me at an SCA event* commenting on attendees lack of imagination.

Balance with all things in life is certainly the key.  Great sites in the original post, lot's of info!



* I guess I just could have stopped there.   

[Master James]

Well as far as to HA, that is ALWAYS open to interpretation.  We at the Virginia Renaissance Faire try to be as close as we can as far as the personalities and garb goes, especially in court.  Now does that mean we hand stitch everything as some people advocate?  Absolutely not.  We want to present something that is as HA in style and look as possible, not actual fabric and construction.  And please remember on this, this is for the cast ONLY.  We could care less what the patrons do.  If they want to be stormtroopers, I say go for it as long as they show up and enjoy our faire.  I think this is what most of the people on there are talking about is cast and not patrons.  I don't think anyone is saying that everyone including the patrons should be HA because that is just plain stupid for a faire.  If it was a historical reenactment, then that would be a different story.  You wouldn't want to see a stormtrooper running the streets of Williamsburg as it would remove something from the reenactments.  Fortunately, faires are not reenactments so anything goes for the patrons.

[Laird Fraser of Lovatt]

...the guy in SS regalia...

Now that is a true "Garb Nazi"!

And completely sick...by no stretch of any imagination, innappropriate and distasteful.  Stunned management at TRF is THAT open.

Oh, it disgusted quite a few people... one to the point that he had to be restrained from a confrontation with the small minded twit.  The person was a patron... paid his money and walked inside.  Now, i'm not sure if he came through the gates with his brown shirt, red armband & jack boots...

[Valiss]

...Or maybe they all started off as HA and slowly slid down to fantasy...

Can't say I consider it a "slide down".
I believe it was not your intent but this is the attitude groups like the SCA take, and the reason terms like "Garb Nazi" and "History Snob" get tossed about.
Seems those who want HA look down on those who don't.
You will never find me at an SCA event* commenting on attendees lack of imagination.

Balance with all things in life is certainly the key.
Great sites in the original post, lot's of info!



* I guess I just could have stopped there.

;D

I have no problem with fantasy at all; I just started a topic to get us to think about what we are suppose to be representing at faire. And like someone else pointed out, the rules are different from actors vs patrons and from faire to faire. From my experience, despite claims to the counter, I have yet to see any SCA event that was HA, at least in terms of garb, but I'm no expert. But those I have chatted with that proclaim to be HA authorities have also stated that what SCA does has little to do with actual HA. But that's another matter for someone more experienced on the subject than I.

Personally, I think there is room to be authentic and have a good time, and if your faire states they are trying to recreate a specific time and place in history, then they should strive to do so as best as possible.

[crashbot]

My cousin worked at Ferrycarrig National Heritage Park, back in Wexford.  It is a living history park, you pay a fee, go in, and see ancient Ireland. There are no shops, no booze, no singing ladies with lots'o cleavage. Its purely educational.  HA is very important to these folks and for good reason, it is a window to the past. It was not only a hobby, but a job.

I've only been to two American faires regularly and noticed they have a decidedly different atmosphere. They encourage people to "step back" into mix history and fantasy, dress up, shop, watch shows, and most of all have fun.  I don't see an issue with that at all. However, storm troopers, KISS, steampunks, and Hitler-Jugend are seriously pushing it, imo. I think anything from d&d style fantasy, to late antiquity up to very early colonial are good.

I like to play Viking. It's not "period" and I am not 100% HA, but that's what I like to do.

[Taffy Saltwater]

While I "get" that performers/employees of the faire have certain expectations that they must meet, I as a patron will wear what I am most happy in.  While I have always gone in some kind of garb (and some were better executed than others), none of it could ever be considered HA, from the time period (wenchy/Golden Age of Pirates/neo-Victorian) to the fabric (cotton blend/upholstery mystery blends) to the finishing (hand sewing? HA!).  What I do is make a HUGE effort at wearing the best garb I can for my choice that day and put a lot of work into it.

[SandrineDeLaTombe]

I've only been to one faire (my home fair of Scarborough), so I can't speak to its level of HA compared to other faires. I am not truly HA, but I do think certain things flat out don't belong at the ren faire. I was amused by the group coming dressed as various incarnations of Doctor Who this season, but I freely admit at being annoyed by the various levels of steampunk items people wear and garbed people walking around with the bluetooth doohickey in their ear the ENTIRE day. Do I say anything to these people? Of course not, as long as they're wearing what they want and are having fun, it's all good. But I always get that twinge of annoyance when what someone's wearing is about 200-300 years off historically.

(Ugh, that all really sounds worse than I mean it to be.  )

[Valiss]

While I "get" that performers/employees of the faire have certain expectations that they must meet, I as a patron will wear what I am most happy in.
While I have always gone in some kind of garb (and some were better executed than others), none of it could ever be considered HA, from the time period (wenchy/Golden Age of Pirates/neo-Victorian) to the fabric (cotton blend/upholstery mystery blends) to the finishing (hand sewing? HA!).
What I do is make a HUGE effort at wearing the best garb I can for my choice that day and put a lot of work into it.

Yeah I'm mostly talking about actors who work there. Paying customers can do whatever they like, though it would be nice if they tried to go with the time peroid if they choose to dress up. But if you work on cast that is supposed to represent 1588, then you should look 1588 appropiate in my opinion.

[midnightferret]

I'm not sure why "Theme Park" would somehow exclude being Historically Accurate...

It certianly sounds like to me that they are trying to be historically accurate, while also being entertaining; at least to some degree.....

There are entire Fantasy Faires just for all the vampires and fairys to attend.

No, it shouldn't *exclude* HA -- sorry for the confusion. But it does mean that for the price of admission, *anyone* can enter and spend his or her money without being HA all the way or even some of the way. Sure, the cast and other workers should conform to certain standards, but, well, Faires are a business. For example: Kids like fairies, so a lot of Faires will hire some fairies. This keeps the parents inside spending money. They usually still have HA demonstrations and garbed performers, too. If it were a "re-enactment" and not a "festival/faire" then hopefully it would be more strict with who works there and what they do.

Also, if someone wants to be a 14th Century archer at a Tudor Faire, they can do so for the price of admission. The Faire will take his or her money, of course! Telling someone they can't dress up as a fairy and pay to go into a Ren Faire is like telling me I can't shop at a certain store or go to a certain bar unless I wear a certain outfit. As long as I'm wearing clothes that don't expose me within legal limits, I should be able to spend my money wherever I want. I'm not saying you don't have a point, but I don't think Faires should or would "censor" who can pay and spend money inside the gates. You don't open a business and then limit who can patronize it if you want to make money.

[Valiss]

I'm not sure why "Theme Park" would somehow exclude being Historically Accurate...

It certianly sounds like to me that they are trying to be historically accurate, while also being entertaining; at least to some degree.....

There are entire Fantasy Faires just for all the vampires and fairys to attend.

No, it shouldn't *exclude* HA -- sorry for the confusion. But it does mean that for the price of admission, *anyone* can enter and spend his or her money without being HA all the way or even some of the way. Sure, the cast and other workers should conform to certain standards, but, well, Faires are a business. For example: Kids like fairies, so a lot of Faires will hire some fairies. This keeps the parents inside spending money. They usually still have HA demonstrations and garbed performers, too. If it were a "re-enactment" and not a "festival/faire" then hopefully it would be more strict with who works there and what they do.

Also, if someone wants to be a 14th Century archer at a Tudor Faire, they can do so for the price of admission. The Faire will take his or her money, of course! Telling someone they can't dress up as a fairy and pay to go into a Ren Faire is like telling me I can't shop at a certain store or go to a certain bar unless I wear a certain outfit. As long as I'm wearing clothes that don't expose me within legal limits, I should be able to spend my money wherever I want. I'm not saying you don't have a point, but I don't think Faires should or would "censor" who can pay and spend money inside the gates. You don't open a business and then limit who can patronize it if you want to make money.

Indeed. As I mentioned before, if you're a paying cusomter, do whatever you want. I'm more refering to us cast/guilds/actors. Sorry for the confusion if I didnt make that clear.