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A Different Perspective

Started by Lady Renee Buchanan, July 30, 2010, 08:08:58 PM

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Lady Renee Buchanan

Wow!  Here is something that I think could make a very lively discussion.  With all the comments on adornments people wear to the faire, the responses should be very interesting.

I have a friend that is a Ren Faire performer/cast member.  We were discussing the faire, and of course, we got into a discussion of all the different personas who visit the faire.  Like Star Treks, Storm Troopers, Steampunk.  You get the picture.  His response is a totally different perspective, coming from someone who works at the faire for his livelihood.  Again, it is just his OPINION, but since most of us don't make working at faires our lifestyles, I thought it worth putting out in our forum.

My friend feels insulted that people come to faire not dressed in garb that fits the scenario.  Oh, not H/A garb, none of us really have that, and of course, he realizes this.  But his point of view is that the cast spends up to 3-4 months in rehearsals to give the patrons a someone realistic re-creation of a Medieval or Renaissance Village faire.  The owners and management spend lots of money to hire the people to do this and decorate the grounds.  The musicians spend time and money rehearsing (somewhat) period songs and getting together garb to look the part of a Renaissance bard.  The merchants spend time and money to build booths that look like houses of the time period.  Without going on and on, I think you get my drift.

Then in come the Trekkies, Steampunk, etc, and he feels like they are thumbing their noses at everyone who has worked hard to provide a fun environment with a semi-realistic portrayal of the time period.  It's like they are saying, "Yeah, this is a Renaissance Festival, but I dress this way because I CAN, and there's nothing you can do about it."  And he feels it takes so much away from the environment.

I told him about this forum, that we are such a diverse group, and he said, without naming names, I could post this on here.

I'd love to hear what others think, because I never really thought about it from that point of view.  Again, it is his opinion, not mine, not yours, not managements, so it isn't official, but I think there is some truth in what he says.

So any posts, please let's keep it "nice" and without drama!

A real Surf Diva
Landshark who loves water
Chieftesse Surf'n Penny of Clan O'Siodhachain,
Irish Penny Brigade
Giver of Big Hugs 
Member since the beginning of RF
All will be well. St. Julian of Norwich

crashbot

First and foremost, it is a place to have fun, so people who want absolute historical accuracy need to find living history events and go to those.  I think it would very dull if it wasn't for the people who bring the fantasy aspects and all the non historically accurate fun to faire. I like to see anything from late antiquity Carolingian Renaissance through the middle ages ( I play Viking), THE Renaissance and on into earlier colonial/ age of sail ( need pirates!) to goblins and faires. I've never worked at a faire and real life kind of limits the faires I can attend to Scarby and TRF, so my perspective is only from what I see at those. I do however, have close friends that do/have worked at faires around the country and they for the most part have the same opinions as I do.

The argument has been made that if they are paying, they can get in wearing whatever they want.  Not buying this, I can think of a couple dozen businesses that will turn people away for being "out of place". Try getting into Slimelight in England in street clothes, good luck.

My opinion, there dozens of sci-fi cons around the country every year and most people are not more than a few hours drive from one. If you want to play Trekkie, Storm Trooper, or Jules Verne, go there.
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices. - Voltaire

serenamoonsilver

The first time I ever came across this, it was people dressed as Star Trek.  I asked them about it and they said it was supposed to be like going on away mission on a low tech planet.  Likewise, some steampunks I know say its supposed to be like time travelers.  I'm not sure what the stormtroopers excuse would be.

As to the initial post, I would point out that the majority of patrons who come through the gate aren't dressed in period clothes either and are technically destroying the illusion too.

Lady Renee Buchanan

Quote from: serenamoonsilver on July 30, 2010, 09:24:20 PM
The first time I ever came across this, it was people dressed as Star Trek.  I asked them about it and they said it was supposed to be like going on away mission on a low tech planet.  Likewise, some steampunks I know say its supposed to be like time travelers.  I'm not sure what the stormtroopers excuse would be.

As to the initial post, I would point out that the majority of patrons who come through the gate aren't dressed in period clothes either and are technically destroying the illusion too.

I understand what you are saying, but I think my point was a little different.  It is that a cast member who (along with the rest of the cast) put a lot of time and effort trying to show the general public a recreation of a Renaissance village, who felt like those dressed from time periods not remotely associated with this one (and not just fairies or pirates, people kind of thought they were around in the Renaissance) were like a slap in the face to those people working so hard to make the recreation.

Again, it may be only he who feels this way, certainly not every cast member.  It's just I had never thought of it that way, and I was wondering if anyone else had heard (or experienced this if they work at faire) this from other cast members or performers or merchants.
A real Surf Diva
Landshark who loves water
Chieftesse Surf'n Penny of Clan O'Siodhachain,
Irish Penny Brigade
Giver of Big Hugs 
Member since the beginning of RF
All will be well. St. Julian of Norwich

Butch

As I understand you, his point is:  If you go to Faire, either dress in your normal (mundane) clothing, OR dress in an interpretation of the period.  He feels that by going out of your way and dressing COMPLETELY out of period, a person is insulting the crew.

Is that it?

I don't have a problem with it myself.  If someone wants to wear a halloween costume of Freddy Kruger, that's OK with me.  If that's how they want to be seen, then let them.  They're not disturbing the guests.  That goes with trekkies, Star Wars, vampires, and steam punk to me.  Why not?  The more the merrier!

Now, if say a person dresses in some sort of scandalous costume, that is meant to be obscene and may incite a riot (KKK, Hitler, etc), then I feel that person should be escorted from the Faire for trying to be disruptive and trying to take away from others' fun.

Prof. John Bull

I think your friend makes a valid point.

People in street clothes who come to experience the festival do not change the nature of the event or distract from what the participants are trying to do.  People who see the festival as their personal halloween party, who show up in a C3PO outfit, or as storm troopers, trekkies, Darleks, Zorro, Batman, etc. do in fact distract and detract from the ambiance, and that is the case regardless of how good of a back story they've made up.

I see pirates and steampunk also as a problem but to a lesser extent.

Festivals over time evolve into what they allow.  If any given fest if OK with evolving into a fringe fest, well, fine.  But if that's not the goal then it ought to be recognized that permitting Wonder Woman to come through the gates is going to undermine the fest experience for participants and patrons alike and detract from the goal of a fun journey back to a particular place and time.

Lord Clisto of York

#6
Believe me, as a performer as well, I can see his frustration. But we also have to remember the statement the faire also makes "Where Fantasy Rules" I believe it is. Personally I am honored and respect to the fullest all the hard work and dedication that everyone puts into the faire to make it what it is. But, it is a business, and getting people in the gates mundane, wearing well done Elizabethan clothing or a Fred Flintstone outfit is what it is about first. Then it is what they get once they are in.

One also has to remember that a large amount of people come just to be with friends, family or  shopping, and don't really care about the rest. As sad as that is, with all the hard work as I stated before, it is a reality. Bottom line is, they shouldn't worry about it. They should just take the pride in knowing THEY and EVERYONE else that contributed the many hours, have worked hard and did a great job.

And, one other thing to remember, I have personally seen patrons in all sorts of other non-period garb or costumes sitting at these long rehearsed performances taking it all in. So it works both ways. One doesnt have to dress it to enjoy it.

Once again, my hat goes off to all those dedicated individuals for making Bristol a great place to enjoy.
Invictus Maneo - I Remain Unvanquished

Captain Cornelius Howard Duckman

I'm confused. How does people in non period detract or undermine from the experience anymore then the hordes of mundanes?

Jay Byrd

I dress as well as I can to fit the Ren theme of our faire.  I am asked many times a day if I am Robin Hood.  That said;

I don't feel that they are thumbing their noses at anyone, maybe this is just a place they fell they can be accepted dressing as such.  Maybe they know it will get them attention and for some reason, didn't get enough as  akid or in high school or whatever they want to get it here.

I agree though and I would like it more if everyone dressed in garb to fit the theme that the faiire is attempting to recreate, and that includes fairies, pirates and anything that can be mildy associated with the time period.  But hey I do my thing and try to look past it though it does kind of throw me out of my ren bliss for a second when I see it.  But I get my groove right back on and dance it out.

Don't let it get to you people  we're here to have fun.

Jay Byrd

Delireus

I never thought of it that way. I rather like steampunk but don't have the outfit to pull it off just yet, but now I'm thinking maybe faire isn't the best place for it. However, while I've never been to a con, I know that a faire and a con are very different in atmosphere and people. I've got friends who go and just by the pictures alone, it's very clear to see that they are different, right? I think I can understand why someone who loves the faire and steampunk fashion wouldn't want to just confine themselves to a con.

However, like I said now I'm thinking of it in a different light. I think everyone has their limit to what they like and don't like to see at a faire. I've never seen Trekkies before but I did see a strom trooper and I was very confused. I've also seen walking trees, goblins, fairies, dragons, centaurs, fauns, Romans, Tudors, Greeks, vikings, and many other fictional and non fictional characters spanning centuries. Perhaps do you think that rennies 30 years ago were not happy to see Romans at a Renaissance festival? Or fairies or goblins? Maybe in 30 years trekkies and steampunks will be as normal as seeing those I have mentioned. I don't know how I feel about that though.

Personally, I believe there is a gray spot, it's not black and white. Fairies are common place, whether you like them or not, but it seems there's a dislike for steampunks. What about a steampunk fairy? I'd like to see that. But, where does that fall? Like I said, there's a gray spot where a costume crosses from somewhat accepted to 'you wore that?'. I think Trekkies and star wars fall into the latter category, and I think those people who dress as that know it. I don't think they do it to be rude or disrespectful though, but I'd like to see them maybe try to dress in garb, its fun! But maybe not to them. How can I say that when I see trekkies and star wars fans I feel like I'm at a costume party when there's a fairy court running about?

I just can't stop blabbing incoherently, I'm really sorry :/ but again, there's a norm at faire and then there's something new coming. But was the norm that is today always a norm? Maybe so, I don't know, but maybe this something new will be the norm in later years. I kind of hope not though...
- Shanon (with just 1 N)

Home is where
the faire is

Merlin the Elder

Interesting topic—and responses.  My personal take on it is that the Trekkers, Trekkies, Star Warriors, Dr Who's, etc., are simply out of place and context. How would Henry VIII be viewed at a Star Wars convention? Sure, it could be fun, but it's not in context.

I had a young man come up to me at Scarby this year and start talking what I thought was nonsense. I was totally taken by surprise and was dumbstruck (easy to do, but that's another thread). I think we both ended up embarrassed. Turned out, he was one of the Dr. Who invaders that weekend. It might have ended up an interesting exchange, but it was so out of context, I had no clue to what was going on.

Costuming to match the faire's period would be difficult and expensive for us playtrons because we move around to different faires. So there is this +/- couple of centuries thing happening. The legends and lore of the era also play a role. I know some have a problem even with those of us that attend as fantasy characters. At least we fit the context of the ages.

There are venues for the characters of the space movies, classic TV, and comic books. Rather than be disruptive to the intent of the faire, they should use those venues for those costumes. Better yet, costume up in more appropriate attire and join us!
Living life in the slow lane
ROoL #116; the Jack of Daniels; AARP #7; SS# 000-00-0013
I've upped my standards. Now, up yours.
...and may all your babies be born naked...

Noble Dreg

Quote from: Captain Cornelius Howard Duckman on July 31, 2010, 01:07:32 AM
I'm confused. How does people in non period detract or undermine from the experience anymore then the hordes of mundanes?

I shall allow the image to speak for itself...

"Why a spoon cousin? Why not an axe?"
Because it's dull you twit, it'll hurt more. Now SEW, and keep the stitches small

Lady Nicolette

#12
Quote from: Delireus on July 31, 2010, 01:59:38 AM

Perhaps do you think that rennies 30 years ago were not happy to see Romans at a Renaissance festival? Or fairies or goblins? Maybe in 30 years trekkies and steampunks will be as normal as seeing those I have mentioned. I don't know how I feel about that though.

I can't tell you what every Rennie of 30 years ago thought, but I can tell you what my cohorts and I did...At that point in time, many of us thought the Faeries who showed up were kind of silly...And we would enjoy playing with the patrons in mundane clothing and with their cameras, etc.  Very few showed up in out-of-era garb except for modern (in our day the glam rockers and what would eventually become goth) apparel.  For the few who did wear, for instance Victorian/Dickensian clothing, we would just play that they were time travelers.  We had very few chain mail type garb except for knights, we all kind of viewed them (not the knights, the chain mail bikinis when they started to show up) the way we did the people who came as Faeries.  The Faeries have become commonplace at Faires and since these days there are so many children (30 years ago, not so much!), I think the Fae and the other fantasy characters of the era and pirates and LOTR ones are fun for the young ones and their parents, it encourages imagination and play, which is good for all ages (or scary sometimes, too, but still OK in my book).  

I can see Renee's friends' point, it can seem like people who might possibly know what a Faire is about could seem to be thumbing their noses at it.  Most of those who've invested in lavish whatever-their-thing-may-be know about the various cons etc that exist for that particular ouvre.  But they've paid and if they want to wear a chicken suit, they can, unless the Faires become members-only, which isn't a very cost-effective way to run a business.  

I would prefer to see more in period-ish garb for the illusion, myself, but I don't begrudge anyone in any attire their chance to enjoy the Faire and maybe want to come back in more period garb (especially being a merchant!).
"Into every rain a little life must fall." ~ Tom Rapp~Pearls Before Swine

Lady Nicolette

And I've got to add, the Fops are so much fun!!!! 
"Into every rain a little life must fall." ~ Tom Rapp~Pearls Before Swine

serenamoonsilver

Quote from: Lady Renee Buchanan on July 30, 2010, 09:35:21 PM
I understand what you are saying, but I think my point was a little different.  It is that a cast member who (along with the rest of the cast) put a lot of time and effort trying to show the general public a recreation of a Renaissance village, who felt like those dressed from time periods not remotely associated with this one (and not just fairies or pirates, people kind of thought they were around in the Renaissance) were like a slap in the face to those people working so hard to make the recreation.

Again, it may be only he who feels this way, certainly not every cast member.  It's just I had never thought of it that way, and I was wondering if anyone else had heard (or experienced this if they work at faire) this from other cast members or performers or merchants.

My point was that I don't think most of these people are "thumbing their noses" at the hard work the cast does.  I think they appreciate the illusion even more than the mundanes do perhaps.  The man off the street comes in and doesn't go much beyond observing and thinking that's cool.  The steampunk/trekkies come in and like the playtron wants to be part of the illusion created, however they're doing it from a place that perhaps feels more accessable to them.  I would lump them in more the wildly non-HA fantasy types you see (fairies, WoW-style warriors, LotR types, etc). 

That said, I do agree that some of the costumes (such as the guy in a banana suit I saw once) that are there just to get attention.