A Different Perspective

[Butch]

Valiss!  I LOVE reading Attack Laurel's posts!  She inspired me to go "extreme" on decorating my son's doublet.  Although I don't always agree with all she posts, I really enjoy reading her blog.  Thank-you!

[crashbot]

We where asked asked for an opinion and we gave them. Look at my profile picture, you think I care what people look like? No.  I'm full of tattoo's and metal adornments, sheesh. (sans the deathrock hawk now)


People showing up in whatever costume they want to wear doesnt bother me, I still have fun doing my thing, hanging out with nice folks and meeting new people. I just think it would be more fun for everyone that if you where going to dress up, try to at least keep with the theme.

Now, off to work on my Space Marine armor.

[robert of armstrong]

If someone wants to wear a halloween costume of Freddy Kruger, that's OK with me.  If that's how they want to be seen, then let them.  They're not disturbing the guests.  That goes with trekkies, Star Wars, vampires, and steam punk to me.  Why not?  The more the merrier!

The problem is that some of it is disturbing and disrupting to the guests.  I have taken mundanes to Faire, trying to turn them on to our little world.  This was years ago at the Ontario RenFest, which unfortunately closed years ago.  They saw four people in Trek uniforms (albeit very low quality ones) and thought that it was dumb, and it took away from their experience, and what were they doing there, and in a round about way the experience turned them away from Faire.  Many mundanes are at Faire for the first time, and you only get one chance to make a first impression.  We need the mundanes to help support our Faires through their revenues.  If you think that Playtrons keep Faires afloat, think again, we are in the minority of attendees.  If they leave a Faire with the outstanding thought is of a bunch of Stormtroopers or an Away Team (because everything else "fit in" at the Shire, that would stand out) then they may not return, because the Faire has just turned into another ComiCon.

I'm confused. How does people in non period detract or undermine from the experience anymore then the hordes of mundanes?

This is like asking if the audience takes away from the actors' expeience at a Broadway play.  The illusion is being put on, in a large part, for the mundanes.  They are the audience, so some thought has to be given to their reactions.  Do the people riding the rides at Disney make it feel like less of a Magical Kingdom?

Not everybody and everyplace has an event where one can show off their fantasy, etc. garb.  At least people make an effort.  

I've also worn steampunk garb to Faire a few times .....  There are few opportunities for me to wear my Steampunk stuff in general & if I was banned from wearing it to faire that would leave me possibly 3 opportunities to wear it per year (Book Character Day, Halloween & Anime Convention).  

I don't have as big a problem with Steampunk, but having few venues to wear garb nearby is not a valid reason to have Stormtroopers and the like invade a Faire.  I have one Faire within a 1 hour drive of me, and that venue is only on one weekend per year.  As I want to wear my garb more, I choose to drive four hours to the next nearest three Faires, 5 hours to a another and ten hours to my favourite (all times are one way, double it for total time travelling to and from).

One parallel I have used in the past is this:  I'm a Leafs hockey fan from Toronto.  The season is limited (especially with the talent on our team in the last few years).  This doesn't make it okay for me wear my Leafs Jersey and flag to a hockey game in Buffalo where the Sabres were playing, say Boston.  Just slightly out of place, right?  But can you imagine me going to a Yankees game in my Leafs jersey, waving my Leafs flag and chanting  hockey cheers, yelling about a penalty or an off-side?  Demanding a Penalty Shot?  

If it's you thing, go, enjoy, and take appropriate part.

[Lady L]

From the first post, it says that a CAST member felt that people who came as Trekkies, Steampunk, etc. took away from the ILLUSION that the cast, merchants and entertainers worked very hard to try to project for the people who came to visit a RENAISSANCE faire.

And my question was, has anyone else heard that from a performer, or has any performer/cast member felt that way, because it is a different perspective than what I would ever think of.  

Lady Renee, yes I have heard that from other shopkeepers. We do try very hard to create that illusion of a village.  When I first started at MNRF (1998) we had a costume director. We had to submit ideas/drawings of what type of garb we were going to wear and have it approved. I don't know when that ended, but I haven't gotten anything, no guidelines, or rules about costuming, in years. Also, a few years ago, MNRF decided to have an ATV dealer set up and demonstrate their vehicles RIGHT BY the MAIN GATE! Talk about destroying an illusion! 

[Lady Nicolette]

I'm with you on that, Lady L (ATV's)!  And also the broadcasting of sports games in pubs. 
I also am from the days when you had to pass inspection (and that was not just cast, it was everyone).

[DonaCatalina]

As I understand you, his point is:  If you go to Faire, either dress in your normal (mundane) clothing, OR dress in an interpretation of the period.  He feels that by going out of your way and dressing COMPLETELY out of period, a person is insulting the crew.

Is that it?

I myself have heard comments like this from cast members. The cast directors expect them to stay in character regardless of what their 'audience' is wearing but the trekkies and the storm troopers frwquently make that more difficult than people in mundane clothing do. Not all of them by any means, but enough of the star trek characters have come up in the middle of a lane set and pretend to run scanners over the person or persons invovled in the skit. So that irritant probably set them against sci-fi characters at faire to begin with. My personal opinion is I don't go to sci-fi cons in all my regalia and expect to be treated as the Marquesa De Rende, so why should they come to a Renaissance faire and expect all of us to treat them as if its a sci-fi con?
Look at it another way. Would you like it if someone you didn't really know came to one of your relatives' formal weddings in torn jeans and a rock band shirt and insisted on sitting on the front row?
It seems to me to be a matter of manners.

[groomporter]

I'm confused. How does people in non period detract or undermine from the experience anymore then the hordes of mundanes?

I've long said that the paying public can attend in whatever is street legal in that community,* and I admit people watching is part of the fun of fair, but I would suggest that things like Star Trek/War uniforms, furries or other attention grabbing clothing ( http://mrffriends.tripod.com/pages_groups/unusual_patrons.html ) can be things that distracts the audience from the actual show especially when they walk past or join the audience of stage acts that are in performance. They can also reinforce the public perception that there's nothing historical/educational to be found at Renfairs.

The furry that showed up to MNRF a couple years ago
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/Groomporter/shows/MNRF%202007/P9150006.jpg

*Although I confess I'm tired of the woman who has been showing up at MNRF for at least 15 years wearing an 18 inch, erect codpiece. I would like to see management politely ask her not to wear it anymore.

[groomporter]

Something to consider as well is that some people dress in whatever style they like every day...Whether the latest is glam or mods or rockers or steampunk or retro hippie/original hippie/dancer/blahblahblah or whatever (probably less likely some types, but you get my drift).  Some of these people are just dressed as they prefer to dress and are able to live whatever lifestyle supports that and show up at faire in that attire.  

Yeah I've pointed to people that the Goths who show up at fair are sometimes just wearing their day-to-day "going out with friends clothes" and are not in "costumes" for the going to fair.

[serenamoonsilver]

I myself have heard comments like this from cast members. The cast directors expect them to stay in character regardless of what their 'audience' is wearing but the trekkies and the storm troopers frwquently make that more difficult than people in mundane clothing do. Not all of them by any means, but enough of the star trek characters have come up in the middle of a lane set and pretend to run scanners over the person or persons invovled in the skit. So that irritant probably set them against sci-fi characters at faire to begin with. My personal opinion is I don't go to sci-fi cons in all my regalia and expect to be treated as the Marquesa De Rende, so why should they come to a Renaissance faire and expect all of us to treat them as if its a sci-fi con?
Look at it another way. Would you like it if someone you didn't really know came to one of your relatives' formal weddings in torn jeans and a rock band shirt and insisted on sitting on the front row?
It seems to me to be a matter of manners.

Manners are one thing and what you described is rude, just as it would be rude to interupt a cosplay skit at a sci-fi con.  But from talking to people who do this, going dressed up to a con and going dressed up to faire are two different experiences for some of them.  A sci-fi con may have areas for LARP, but when the day is done its still just a convention hall, full of tabled merchants.  It's not made up to be an alien planet or spacestation.  Now when you walk into a ren faire, its like entering a whole other world.  It isn't as hard to imgaine yourself a time traveler or on a "low tech alien world".  I really can't name another place that's open to the public where you can get that kind of experience.  I think as long as they aren't acting rude then  it shoudln't be a problem and I would hope the staff would take it as a compliment.  After all, there a lot of other things at faire the break the illusion for me more than the trekkies, etc.

[Lady L]

  And also the broadcasting of sports games in pubs. 

Yes, I really agree with you on that one. I know there are some die hard sports fans, but in my opinion, the festival shouldn't be promoting that.

[Lady L]

*Although I confess I'm tired of the woman who has been showing up at MNRF for at least 15 years wearing an 18 inch, erect codpiece. I would like to see management politely ask her not to wear it anymore.

I agree with you! I have seen her out there every year, wearing that thing. Especially since they want to be more family friendly and we have to sign a no sexual harassment policy.

[cowgrrl]

Look at it another way. Would you like it if someone you didn't really know came to one of your relatives' formal weddings in torn jeans and a rock band shirt and insisted on sitting on the front row?
It seems to me to be a matter of manners.

I honestly think there's a huge difference.  The person who is dressed in non-HA garb is still making an effort to 'play'.  I also don't expect cast members to interact with me if I'm not in HA garb & I'm not one who tries to interact with cast members whether I'm in HA garb or not.   

*Although I confess I'm tired of the woman who has been showing up at MNRF for at least 15 years wearing an 18 inch, erect codpiece. I would like to see management politely ask her not to wear it anymore.

Honestly, as a person who travels for faires, that bit of info gives me pause about whether or not I'd want to visit MNRF.  Although I have to ask, are we talking codpiece or dildo?

[groomporter]

 

*Although I confess I'm tired of the woman who has been showing up at MNRF for at least 15 years wearing an 18 inch, erect codpiece. I would like to see management politely ask her not to wear it anymore.

Honestly, as a person who travels for faires, that bit of info gives me pause about whether or not I'd want to visit MNRF.  Although I have to ask, are we talking codpiece or dildo?

Codpiece. It's velvet and decorated with pearls. When we first saw her wear it years ago it was about the time when Blackadder was on public television locally so we assumed it was a joke inspired by the huge one he wore in one episode. A friend who used to know her through the SCA said she actually has some sort of feminist statement she's trying to make, but whatever the statement is it gets kind of lost. She's a playtron and shows up about once a year or so.

[Noble Dreg]

Yep, darned tired of her too!  Sorry if it's viewed as negative or not, just flat out tired of seeing it.

[Anna Iram]

Okay, I have to ask. What was she wearing other than the bejeweled codpiece?

A few years back we had a fellow wearing armor made from soda cans, with the logos still clearly visible. I thought it was funny and cool and it made me smile, but alot of the comments I heard were of the rolling eyes/how dare he kind.  I can see if it's something or someone who is trying to be offensive, or if it is a faire that really does strive for complete accuracy...I guess for me there is a line between going to the show and playing along, even if it is out of context and going to the show specifically to garner attention for yourself and I've seen folks wearing aceptable "ren garb" be just as disrespectful to the cast and disruptive to the show in their own ways as those dressed out of period. It's the spirit behind the person that matters to me more.