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Pregnant Garb

Started by LadyStitch, June 04, 2008, 09:40:13 AM

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LadyStitch

One of my friends is determined to go to TRF in garb at 6.5 months pregnant.  She wants to go as a simple, but pretty peasant. She doesn't' want to spend alot of money but look nice.

As I have  1) never been pregnant  2) make maternity stuff , I'm not sure what to tell her.  Currently she is looking at either an empire waist 1500's thing, or a basic cottom peasant blouse with an under the bust tie. 
Currently she is very well endowed and by then she is afraid that she might need extra support. Any suggestions would be helpful for both of us. Thanks.
It is kind of strange watching your personal history become costume.

operafantomet

I'm thinking this type of dress in some way (the green one):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/ghirlandaio1475.jpg

It can be made even higher in the waist, and most are front closed (practical). It's not quite peasant, but can be made in plainer, less colourful fabrics.

Lady Anne Clare

Here are two I found and one does have a pregnant woman.





If you look closely at the bottom picture, the woman is holding up the front of her dress on her belly.  The basic lines seem the same on both dresses.  The sleeves could be made more simple as well as in plainer fabrics.
I love historical sewing for the lack of zippers ;)

Lady Rosalind

The bottom one is the Arnolfini Wedding Portrait (one of my favorites!). She isn't pregnant - that was the style of the time. It very well could work for pregnant garb!  ;D

Corinne Bagley

I have nearly the same problem. I have a friend who is going with us to TRF 6 weeks after having a baby. The solution we have come up with is loose fitting pants, flowy shirt and a ghawazee vest (in a pirate-y way). An empire waist dress might be a good idea,  you could do a split skirt with another skirt underneath and a belt under the belly.

http://www.atirasfashions.com/images/NO27A.GIF
http://www.tribenawaar.com/marketplace/images/CostumingImages/vests/SmallGreen.jpg

A half bodice or something like the ones that I posted should give enough support...

I hope I've been helpful.

LadyStitch

Her hubby is buying her a new full length odd bodkin chamise.  She asked me to dress it up.  My biggest concern will be her comfort.  I'm tempted to offer her my very loose and much too big for me bloomers for her to wear under neath.  I don't know if that would help or hinder.
It is kind of strange watching your personal history become costume.

operafantomet

#6
Quote from: Sagittarius Uisce Beatha on June 04, 2008, 11:32:50 AM
Here are two I found and one does have a pregnant woman.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/Sagittarius_Uisce_Beatha/renaissance-art-300.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/Sagittarius_Uisce_Beatha/thearnolfiniportrait-Jan_van_Eyck_0.gif

If you look closely at the bottom picture, the woman is holding up the front of her dress on her belly.  The basic lines seem the same on both dresses.  The sleeves could be made more simple as well as in plainer fabrics.
I think neither of them ARE pregnant, but the high-waisted, full-skirted styles of the dresses can give them that appearance. The first is an early Tizian, and the dresses of that era had tiny bodice with huge sleeves and skirts. Lots and lots of fabric...! Bizarre transitional style.

There is a Raphael portrait of a woman; it's called "La Gravida" (the pregnant woman):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/raphael1506b.jpg
The title might be a later one, I'm not sure. And it's not quite peasant either. But hey, at least it's a belly... ;)

I think the best solution would be a highwaisted bodice with full skirt, maybe a chemise or blouse underneath. That should make a quite adaptable dress which she should be able to wear again later. Maybe the bodice could be worn both open and closed laced, for maximum adjustment?


Lady Anne Clare

Quote from: Lady Rosalind on June 04, 2008, 11:52:08 AM
The bottom one is the Arnolfini Wedding Portrait (one of my favorites!). She isn't pregnant - that was the style of the time. It very well could work for pregnant garb!  ;D
Learn something new everyday  ;D

Thanks for clarifying  :)
I love historical sewing for the lack of zippers ;)

gem

Quote from: Sagittarius Uisce Beatha on June 04, 2008, 03:13:29 PM
Quote from: Lady Rosalind on June 04, 2008, 11:52:08 AM
The bottom one is the Arnolfini Wedding Portrait (one of my favorites!). She isn't pregnant - that was the style of the time. It very well could work for pregnant garb!  ;D
Learn something new everyday  ;D

Thanks for clarifying  :)

I've actually seen endless speculation by art historians on whether or not Lady Arnolfini is pregnant or not--and if she's not, why does she look SO much more pregnant than similarly-dressed women in other period artwork.

HOWEVER, aside from all of that, part of the reason that that style WAS so popular is that it was during the period following the Black Death (approximately 100 years later), when Europe was still desperate to rebuild its population.  Fertility equalled beauty in those days--the pregnant look was *definitely* in!

gem

I found one site that uses the Margo Anderson comfort pattern for maternity garb.  I know we look at those loose gowns and think, "Coat! Hot!"  But you could easily make it from nice breezy linen--and you could probably *also* make it so she could wear her best, supportive bra with it.

Baroness Doune

Nothing displays your wealth like excess.
Mrs. Arnofini is wearing a houplande and it's fur lined to boot. 
Even a modest houplande takes a lot of fabric.  This one trails on the floor so much, Mrs. Arnofini has to pick up a goodly chunk just to move.  If you are holding that much fabric in front of your body and it is extra bulky because of the fur lining, yes, you look pregnant even when you are not.

On the other hand, the volume of fabric in a houplande and the way it is pleated on the body, looks good with someone who is pregnant.

On the other hand, all that fabric is hot and heavy.

There are better options.  ;)

isabelladangelo

I couldn't find the painting I was thinking of the lady wearing the pink version of this one:
http://www.wga.hu/art/t/tiziano/10/1/06vanity.jpg

The Mona Lisa wears a similar garment.  What it is is a chemise, a loose high waisted bodice (underbust waistline), and then a colorful chemise like garment over that.  It was typically worn by women right after giving birth but I don't see why it wouldn't be a good garment for a pregnant woman as well.

Also, the Flemish Kirtles might work if you make a simple A line under gown and a more fitted overdress.

This might also be an idea depending on how elaborate you wish to get:
http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/UnknownLady25.jpg
or this:
http://www.sirbacon.org/graphics/liz1.jpg

The second is actually pretty simple in cut but it's the embroidery and sheer overlayer that makes it stand out.

operafantomet

#12
Quote from: gem on June 04, 2008, 04:16:13 PM
Quote from: Sagittarius Uisce Beatha on June 04, 2008, 03:13:29 PM
Quote from: Lady Rosalind on June 04, 2008, 11:52:08 AM
The bottom one is the Arnolfini Wedding Portrait (one of my favorites!). She isn't pregnant - that was the style of the time. It very well could work for pregnant garb!  ;D
Learn something new everyday  ;D

Thanks for clarifying  :)
I've actually seen endless speculation by art historians on whether or not Lady Arnolfini is pregnant or not--and if she's not, why does she look SO much more pregnant than similarly-dressed women in other period artwork.

HOWEVER, aside from all of that, part of the reason that that style WAS so popular is that it was during the period following the Black Death (approximately 100 years later), when Europe was still desperate to rebuild its population.  Fertility equalled beauty in those days--the pregnant look was *definitely* in!

It can be useful to look at the nude paintings a given era, to get a grasp of the body ideals. Nude Italian females from the 16.th century (most often Venus, a gratie or an allegorical figure) can be fleshy per se, but their stomach tend to be smooth. This pretty much reflects the fashion of the 16.th century, with flat-stomached bodices. It also gives a nod towards the ideals of ancient Greece and Rome, where the difference between male and female nudes weren't always striking.
http://www.shafe.co.uk/crystal/images/lshafe/Titian_Venus_of_Urbino.jpg
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Mythology/RM/Lorenzo_Lotto_Cupido.jpg
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Mythology/RM/VenusAnadyomene.jpg

(It's also interesting to see who may have used female models and not - some place the breasts as "oranges" on top of the torso *cough*Michelangelo*cough*, some have them as an integrated part of the chest. But that's another discussion...)

Flemish 15.th century nudes (found in Eve figures and in everyday scenes like bathing women etc), on the other hand, shows slender women with swollen bellies. It is tempting to label them as pregnant, because they LOOK pregnant by today's standard. But Eve before the Fall of Man would not be depicted as such, not even if a pregnant woman was used as a model. It would be contradicting the story told in the painting. Picture exampes:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Hugo_van_der_Goes_009.jpg
http://www.arthistory.sbc.edu/imageswomen/images/memlingeve.jpg

This is only a rough description, and of course there are many variations. Botticelli (though 15.th century) with swollen-bellied women, Hieronymus Bosch (though Dutch) with flat-bellied women... One can also argue whether the silhouette of nude female figures was a result of fashion in clothing, or whether it was opposite. But comparing nude figures to the dressed one of the era and country can be quite useful.  :)

I agree about ideals following the social situation. The Black Death would definitely have promoted fertility as something desireable!

gem

#13
Isabella, you weren't thinking of Botticelli's portrait of Smeralda Bandinelli, were you?

ETA:
Stumbled across another site that talks about loose gowns as maternity wear.

operafantomet

Quote from: gem on June 05, 2008, 03:05:47 PM
ETA:
Stumbled across another site that talks about loose gowns as maternity wear.

Oooh, that's Eva, one of my Livejournal friends. She's made some amazing garbs, this being my favourite: http://web.comhem.se/~u41200125/Anthonismorgown.html

I think she's got a point about pregnancy. Many women were "constantly" pregnant. No wonder many styles and dresses were adaptable in size...


Cilean




Hello,

Tudor Tailor's Ninya found out she was preggers just when they were going to come to the US for a tour in 07, so she did not come here but continued to use the woolen skirts and clothing she wore all the time!  Her information is on her site,

Now, if your friend wants something comfortable? Why on try the Comfort Pattern from Margo Anderson? It is what we have called the Spanish Gown www.margospatterns.com  Look for the Comfort Pattern the best thing about making something lke this? In like a nice cool linen? She can wear it again! If she breast feeds it gives her a modest section.

Now you can also make what is called an 'Irish Gown, and only it lace up to just under the breast section (because you said she as well endowed and it would give her plenty of support), and then use a basic Smock pattern, but at 10 inches to the waist measuremnt.  I would also make the smock lace up the front, to allow for breast feeding.

Cilean



Lady Cilean Stirling
"Looking Good is not an Option, It is a Necessity"
My Motto? Never Pay Retail

PrincessSara

I just got a pattern for myself tonight and then I realized it would probably make pretty good pregnancy garb.

It's Simplicity 5359, and the one I'm thinking of is outfit B (the largest picture).  If you made the skirt, blouse, and vest, without the waist cincher, that should fit around a baby belly.  And you can have the vest close in the front with frogs, hooks and eyes, or even lacing, which would give her the necessary bust support.  You might have to lengthen the blouse a bit, but it should work and it would give a good RenFaire peasant look or a pseudo Turkish look.

Guinevere of Leonesse

I attended Mayfaire Renaissance Festival on Memorial Day and I was just coming to the end of my 6 month into my pregnancy. I am now of course into my 7th and have another 11 weeks to go. Anyway, here I am with good friends of mine, Lady Gwyndolyn and Lord Dark Wolf, I'm in the Amethyst coloured gown. I was roasting there.



However, I do plan to attend Silverleaf  here in Michigan next month and will be about 33 weeks, I'm planning on wearing a light blue skirt, a white short sleeve chemise and a soft cincher belt without no boning in it. I want to look comfortable as much as I can be. :)
The more you worry, the longer it will take.

Baroness Doune

#18
Fabric fiber content plays a very important role in comfort.  For pregnancy wear, eschew synthetic fibers and use only linen and/or cotton.

Linen is the most comfortable fiber to wear.

QuoteProperties of linen:

Since early times flax has been reputed to possess curative properties. This fact has been borne out by the present-day studies. The very word flax meant "being most useful" in Latin.

Indeed, turned into a multitude of household things, flax possesses important, truly exceptional, hygiene and consumer properties that explain why things made of it enjoy such popularity:
Since early times flax has been reputed to possess curative properties. This fact has been borne out by the present-day studies. The very word flax meant "being most useful" in Latin.

Indeed, turned into a multitude of household things, flax possesses important, truly exceptional, hygiene and consumer properties that explain why things made of it enjoy such popularity:
   - flax cell is highly compatible with the human cell thereby producing a benevolent effect on the human organism. The human cell is capable to completely dissolve the flax cell. That is why flax fabric appears to be the only natural material applied in surgery for internal sutures;
   - used as underwear and bed linen it reduces fatigue and lifts spirits;
   - flax fabric is an excellent filter protecting against a chemically aggressive medium, noise and dust;
   - linen reduces gamma radiation nearly by half and protects the human organism against solar radiation. Flax fiber from contaminated soils appears not to exhibit even traces of radiation;
   - linen underwear possesses rare bacteriological properties. Resistant to fungus and bacteria, it is found to be an effective barrier to some diseases. According to medical studies conducted by Japanese researchers, bed-ridden patients do not develop bedsores where linen bed sheets are used. Wearing linen clothes helps to get rid of some skin diseases - from common rash to chronic eczemas;
   - linen does not cause allergic reactions and is helpful in treating a number of allergic disorders;
   - linen is effective in dealing with inflammatory conditions, reducing fever and regulating air ventilation, and is also helpful in the treatment of some neurological ailments;
   -linen cloth does not accumulate static electricity - even a small addition of flax fibers (up to 10%) to a cloth is enough to eliminate the static electricity effect;
   - linen is highly hygroscopic as it is capable to rapidly absorb and yield moisture. It evaporates water as quickly as the pond surface. It has been established that before giving a feeling of being wet, linen cloth can absorb as much as 20% of its dry weight. That explains why linen cloth always feels fresh and cool;
   - linen is renowned for its spectacular durability and long life. The tensile strength of linen thread is twice as high as that of cotton and three times that of wool;
   - linen possesses high air permeability and heat conductivity properties. Heat conductivity of linen is five times as high as that of wool and 19 times as that of silk. In hot weather those dressed in linen clothes are found to show the skin temperature 3°-4°C below that of their silk or cotton-wearing friends. According to some studies, a person wearing linen clothes perspires 1.5 times less than when dressed in cotton clothes and twice less than when dressed in viscose clothes. Meanwhile in cold weather linen is an ideal warmth-keeper;
   - silica present in the flax fiber protects linen against rotting - the mummies of Egyptian Pharaohs preserved to the present day are wrapped in the finest linen cloth;
   - linen rejects dirt and does not get teaseled;
   - linen and linen-containing articles are easily laundered in hot water, may be boiled and dried in the sun, besides they may be hot-ironed thereby ensuring maximum sterilization;
   - the more linen is washed the softer and smoother it becomes;
   - linen underscores naturalness, softness and relief; creasing is yet another precious property possessed by linen;
   -  linen has a smooth surface and mat luster and feels pleasant to the touch.

From http://www.linenline.biz/usefulinfo/prop.php

Cotton would be the second most comfortable.  Although, when cotton gets damp, it clings to the body enhancing that "sticky" feeling.

Cut of garb.

Elizabethan garb frequently utilizes sleeves that are tied on.  This means that the underarm area may only have one loose layer of fabric between the person and the environment - the smock or shirt - and that helps keep a person cooler.  Or leave off outer sleeves altogether.

A large neck opening helps keep one cooler than one that is covered up.  Also, hair that is pinned up, off the neck, will keep one cooler.  Make sure to wear and keep applying plenty of sunscreen.

The Kentwell reenactors (and this includes Ninya, one of the authors of The Tudor Tailor) have found that closer fitting garments keep one cooler than those that are looser.  It is thought that perhaps the looser garments trap pockets of air next to the body.  Air pockets are what make fiberglass insulation so effective in our homes.  Keep in mind, we are talking about close fitting vs. VERY close fitting garments here.

gem

Quote from: Guinevere of Leonesse on June 06, 2008, 09:39:43 PM
I do plan to attend Silverleaf  here in Michigan next month and will be about 33 weeks, I'm planning on wearing a light blue skirt, a white short sleeve chemise and a soft cincher belt without no boning in it. I want to look comfortable as much as I can be. :)

We took a *very* pregnant friend to Fair last season, and by the time she got here, even her own Italian-style gown no longer fit, so I brought her a box of loaner garb, and she put together an ensemble just like that!

Guinevere of Leonesse

Quote from: gem on June 07, 2008, 10:51:35 AM


We took a *very* pregnant friend to Fair last season, and by the time she got here, even her own Italian-style gown no longer fit, so I brought her a box of loaner garb, and she put together an ensemble just like that!

Yeah, that's how I intend to look too, thanks for showing the picture. :)
The more you worry, the longer it will take.