Faire no place for the easily offended

[Margaret]

I remember Kathy saying a few years ago, that she got several calls a week from people who were offended by stuff.  Some she takes with a grain of salt (like the lady who called and said the faire was promoting devil worship by allowing the vendor to seel the little colored horns), some she actually has to address.

For every partons who laughs when offered the kings nuts, there will be someone who is offended by it.

[nliedel]

Nuts grow on trees. Yes, it's slang for other things, but your mind has to go there for it to be dirty. My kids thinks they are nuts. The kind that grow on trees. So, I say the dirt is in the eye of the beholder. Not that we should not be aware of our audience and be careful. Just that it's not just the fault of the seller. Does that make sense? I think there is a large part of the population that elects to be offended by things, not just at the faire, because they can be. They enjoy outrage. I'm not way to wave your bazongas in anyone's face. I'm saying that some people are not happy unless someone else is not happy.

[Lord Virgil]

Nuts grow on trees. Yes, it's slang for other things, but your mind has to go there for it to be dirty. My kids thinks they are nuts. The kind that grow on trees. So, I say the dirt is in the eye of the beholder. Not that we should not be aware of our audience and be careful. Just that it's not just the fault of the seller. Does that make sense? I think there is a large part of the population that elects to be offended by things, not just at the faire, because they can be. They enjoy outrage. I'm not way to wave your bazongas in anyone's face. I'm saying that some people are not happy unless someone else is not happy.

Perfectly put.  And to try and appease these unhappy sourpusses will ruin everyone elses fun!!

[L Dale Walter]

Some she takes with a grain of salt (like the lady who called and said the faire was promoting devil worship by allowing the vendor to seel the little colored horns), some she actually has to address.

'tis true.  After Charlevoix Ren faire we found an amazing blog post that told about how nice everything was, but then suddenly turned and went on an on about how many "dark" things there were, from fortune tellers, magic wands, fairies, and unicorns, to the fact that that we had a troll.  All very non-christian, and she sited Bible verse to condemn all of these things.  Her final statement was along the lines of "I wonder how many people are being corrupted and don't even know it..."

I guess it is kind of like when the Senate subcommittee asked Frank Zappa if he thought music caused violence during the 80's PMRC hearings.  His response was "I wrote a song about dental floss, did people's teeth get cleaner?"

I did have one fundraising group pull out of doing MRF because they said there were "too many non-Christian things".  Another woman complained to me once that there were "too many Democrats" at MRF.

::sigh::

It is a fine middle road we walk as the audience spans a HUGE age demographic as well as social and economic classes.  Trying to find appeal to all is pretty tough.   Having written 8 different shows for Ren Fest audiences over the last 25 years I think about that while I am writing constantly.  In our "Legend of King Arthur" show I knew I would get complaints about Queen Guinevere saying to Morganna, as she moves to kill Arthur, "Why don't you try me, you belch." but it struck a chord with the audience, in that Guinevere has had enough, and will take no more.  Plus the overwhelming positive audience response to that line made me make the decision to keep it as a defining point in the character's development.

But people did complain.  Not a lot, but the ones that do are vocal.  Plus everyone fires everything through their own perspective.  ESPECIALLY if they have children, for then the world must be sanitized for their little darlings.  Not everyone mind you, but a good number who want a Disney/Nerf world for their kids.

And so it goes...

L. Dale Walter

[Lord Virgil]

Again, well spoken Dale!  This kind of conversation is what I was looking for when I started this thread.  I was not in any way trying to beat up on management of our faire, as I have stated before they do a great job (keep it up!)  I wanted a greater perspective on the fact that no matter what you do, you'll piss someone off. 

I have taken my boys to MiRF since they were 7 and 8 (they are 14 and 15 now).  Even at their younger ages, they got some of the adult humor.  They are both well adjusted kids that I've never attempted to shelter from life, and I answer them honestly (within reason of course).  Most people who try to shelter their kids from everything are the ones that have daughters that are knocked up by the time they're 15 because they had no clue about such things and got coerced into it by someone.

[Whistler Fred]

I suspect that most of the really conservative-in-taste types already view RenFaires as unhinged receptacles of evil and licentiousness, and would be inclined to stay away on general principles.  I have some friends who don't feel that strongly about it, but they uncomfortable with devil's horns and fortune tellers.  They don't condemn me for being a part of the faire, but they also aren't likely to show up at the front gates.  Either way, it's their dime and their choice.

As a father I don't want my younger kids overexposed to vulgarity (in all senses of the word), but I wouldn't be bothered by, say, Queen Guinevere's challenge to Morganna, given the dramatic context.  And since all of my kids have been going to Faires for most of their lives, they've probably heard it all already anyway!

Still, there's a time and place for everything, and that includes knowing when not to hit someone with unwelcome innuendo.  No faire can afford to drive their patrons away in these tight economic times.  I think a middle ground can be found between Disney-esque blandness (in all fairness, I don't think everything that comes out of Disney is bland) and non-stop naughtiness.  Finding that middle ground can be the challenge.

[L Dale Walter]

 I think a middle ground can be found between Disney-esque blandness (in all fairness, I don't think everything that comes out of Disney is bland) and non-stop naughtiness.  

It's funny, but when people tell me that things should be more "Disney" I always ask "You mean like in Lion King where Scar, King Mufasa's brother, assassinates him, and tries to kill Simba too?  Or in Hunchback where Claude Frollo sings how he will -have- Esmeralda, or she will be burnt alive?  How about skinning 101 puppies to make a coat for an crazy woman?  Or drownding kittens so an inheritance won't go to them?"

Disney can get pretty dark.  People forget that when they say they want "Disney".

Don't get me started on "Ol' Yeller"

LDW

[maelstrom0370]

It's funny, but when people tell me that things should be more "Disney" I always ask "You mean like in Lion King where Scar, King Mufasa's brother, assassinates him, and tries to kill Simba too?  Or in Hunchback where Claude Frollo sings how he will -have- Esmeralda, or she will be burnt alive?  How about skinning 101 puppies to make a coat for an crazy woman?  Or drownding kittens so an inheritance won't go to them?"

Disney can get pretty dark.  People forget that when they say they want "Disney".

Don't get me started on "Ol' Yeller"

LDW

Game, set aaaand match!

[Cyron]

 I think a middle ground can be found between Disney-esque blandness (in all fairness, I don't think everything that comes out of Disney is bland) and non-stop naughtiness.  

It's funny, but when people tell me that things should be more "Disney" I always ask "You mean like in Lion King where Scar, King Mufasa's brother, assassinates him, and tries to kill Simba too?  Or in Hunchback where Claude Frollo sings how he will -have- Esmeralda, or she will be burnt alive?  How about skinning 101 puppies to make a coat for an crazy woman?  Or drownding kittens so an inheritance won't go to them?"

Disney can get pretty dark.  People forget that when they say they want "Disney".

Don't get me started on "Ol' Yeller"

LDW

like maelstrom0370 said,.. you win.. and are very correct.

[nliedel]

"Song of the South."

Disney hates moms. Think about it.

Cinderella: dead mom.
Bambi: dead mom.
Finding Nemo: DM
Pinocchio: no mom
Snow White: DM
Little Mermaid: mom not even mentioned
I could go on a long time.

People get offended every day  by something. Middle ground is good, but sometimes I think we are PCing ourselves into the middle of not being able to speak at all.

[BLAKDUKE]

Living deep in the bible belt I am constantly running into this kind of thing.  I am ammused by two things in this regard.  One is that for everyone offended by horns it turns out that they went to a high school that had a football team whose logo was a red/green/blue/black/grey/ devil of some sort.  they did not seem to be persuaded to become devil worshippers did they?  Secondly when some of these bible thumpers start spouting off I remind them of a quote made by an early Texas governor
"If english was good enough for Jesus it is good enough for the children of the state of Texas".   That last one always brings a smile to my face.  How blatantly stupid some people can become when they center their lives with blinders.

[L Dale Walter]

People get offended every day  by something. Middle ground is good, but sometimes I think we are PCing ourselves into the middle of not being able to speak at all.

One of my oft used quotes (and my own I might add) is "If you try to be everything to everyone you end up being nothing to anyone..."

Not everyone digs everything.  I am a HUGE Kiss fan, but don't like the Beatles.  So out of the #1 and #2 biggest selling acts of all time I like one, not the other.  Many others may feel differently, but that is why there is Kiss -AND- The Beatles, not Kiss -OR- The Beatles.

However, if one paid to see The Beatles, and Kiss took the stage, they may be a bit upset.  If a patron took their 4 year old to see fairy's and princesses, and heard a guy shouting "Put my nuts in your mouth..." they might be a bit upset as well.

Marketing and target market must be defined.

L. Dale "yes I have an MBA" Walter

[nliedel]

One of my oft used quotes (and my own I might add) is "If you try to be everything to everyone you end up being nothing to anyone..."

Not everyone digs everything.  I am a HUGE Kiss fan, but don't like the Beatles.  So out of the #1 and #2 biggest selling acts of all time I like one, not the other.  Many others may feel differently, but that is why there is Kiss -AND- The Beatles, not Kiss -OR- The Beatles.

However, if one paid to see The Beatles, and Kiss took the stage, they may be a bit upset.  If a patron took their 4 year old to see fairy's and princesses, and heard a guy shouting "Put my nuts in your mouth..." they might be a bit upset as well.

Marketing and target market must be defined.

L. Dale "yes I have an MBA" Walter

Love KISS, hate the Beatles. Totally with you.

I like bawdy. Maybe not on school Friday, but bawdy = good. I am very careful about who I target. I've lost a ton of weight (just bought some size ten jeans for the first time since I was ten) and my boobies are GONE!! I look like a boy in my dresses. I'm now accusing of bawdily dressed women of stealing from me. They ask what? I look down. They laugh. I would never do that to someone in a turtleneck. I know, that sounds like some real groundbreaking advanced theater huh? Snort. It's my first year. Don't expect perfection.

A lot of what we do is who we're talking to, for the one on one types. What has amazed me is how easy it is to pick out those who will play and those who will not. You cannot go by garbed and mundane. Some garbed people don't want to play at all. It's been an education, that's for sure.

[Tipsy Gypsy]

I think nliedel hit the nail on the head- some people are just looking for something to be offended by. If they couldn't find something politically incorrect to whine about, they'd likely gripe that it was too bland and "plain vanilla". My response to them: "Really? There is war and famine and injustice in the world, and you're upset by boobs and double entendres?"