2008 Weapons Policy?

[max and kate]

Other faire goers who do not visit this site where questioning the use of color code zip ties wondering if they why the color code is it to prevent certain folk from buying a beer or is this some status thing?

[King Henry Tudor]

I will digress at this time, my good sir, and make small mention of a purchase I have recently made specifically with your sword in mind.

I'll say little more.... but that I (and whatever other ladies may be handy) intend to make good use of it this season. As often as time and circum........stance allows. 

My Goode Bookwench, myne "sword" be e'er ready and waiting for thee and any other "handy" ladies. 
So be to whet thy appetite (and show to others the object of thy fancy), here be the glorious sword thy hath in mind.....



Note, Goode Gentles, the shape of the pommell end.
I shall leave it to thy imagination as much as the Bookwench's.

[Lord Pumpernickel]

Other faire goers who do not visit this site where questioning the use of color code zip ties wondering if they why the color code is it to prevent certain folk from buying a beer or is this some status thing?

My only objection to this quote is "why the color is it to prevent certain folk from buying a beer..." I do not doubt reason for the color coding has a purpose I do doubt that it is to regulate beer consumption. Two reasons, first I do not know of any faire that use color code but if they did it would not be use to regulate alcohol consumption since all fairs do that with or with out the consumer possessing a blade. Second money is in the the consumption of alcohol, we have people who pay the ticket fee and start to pay into the consumption of alcohol which is big money bigger then any vendor could produce. I doubt, especially considering the owner of the faire (by rumor), that he would ever retard that form of income.

On a side note beside my rebuttal, MIRF does have history of weapon policy that could easily promote a no weapon policy and this year would be a big year to say hey we can handle it. So any renny would with no doubt behave to show we can carry weapons responsibly. With that in mind the percentage of mundanes carrying weapons, including those ignorant of MIRF weapon policy history, would be of a small percentage to grant a poor presentation of weapon policy. To be frank I believe the over paranoia  or fear of removing the promoted weapon policy is irrational and can ruin the enjoyment. Even if it goes back to the accepted norm we already proved MIRF can be an incredible faire and no weapon polciy could ever change that.

[Margaret]

Other faire goers who do not visit this site where questioning the use of color code zip ties wondering if they why the color code is it to prevent certain folk from buying a beer or is this some status thing?

Who knows why they chose to use different colors.  Seems as if it would complicate things.  However, I highly doubt it has anything to do with alcohol consumption or that all the 'cool kids' will have red zip ties or something like that.

[nliedel]

They did not much discuss the color coding, so I can't speak to that. Just that season pass holders, who are gold to us, get a special color and cast members do as well. It did not appear to have anything to do with beer consumption, which we discussed as a major profit maker for the faire. Not in a negative way, but we did talk about protection from the massivly drunk and grabby. Big place, barely dressed women, drunk people. You get that there could be an issue

It seemed to me, and again I am a first year and know nothing, to have nothing to do with booze.

[robert of armstrong]

Some Faires will place a colored bracelet on those who show ID at the gate, allowing them to be served alcohol throughout the day.  Another color for the volunteer cast, another for merchants or their guests, still another for those cast members who are paid.  These tell staff/security/management who is whom, who can/should/should not be in restricted areas.  One or two Faires use colored zip ties as a bracelet, just becasue they are a cheap way of doing it.  This practice does not seem to have anything to do with the purpose or meaning of peace-ties.  They just happen to use the same tool for different purpose.

[Lord Pumpernickel]

Some Faires will place a colored bracelet on those who show ID at the gate, allowing them to be served alcohol throughout the day.  Another color for the volunteer cast, another for merchants or their guests, still another for those cast members who are paid.  These tell staff/security/management who is whom, who can/should/should not be in restricted areas.  One or two Faires use colored zip ties as a bracelet, just becasue they are a cheap way of doing it.  This practice does not seem to have anything to do with the purpose or meaning of peace-ties.  They just happen to use the same tool for different purpose.

O I agree with part of your statement we are all in agreement that the color coding process has a purpose and I look down upon the fool who feels otherwise. But it in no ways has anything to do with alcohol consumption. To even bring up the the idea that alcohol plays a part in this policy is both irrational on illogical. The variables involve make the matter so complex that removing the variable of alcohol actually makes the reality of piece tied weapons plausible. To assume color coded peace ties is used to grant or deny access or consumption to areas or alcohol is irrational. For in order for that system to work every person must be carrying a weapon and we know that will not happen.

Instead of coming up with uneducated conjectures as to the purpose of color coding peace ties we should just accept that the code serve an unknown purpose and we should accept the rule and have another great faire season.

[Katie Bookwench]

I will digress at this time, my good sir, and make small mention of a purchase I have recently made specifically with your sword in mind.
Note, Goode Gentles, the shape of the pommell end.
I shall leave it to thy imagination as much as the Bookwench's.

Yes, yes...very nice and all that.... it's a long metal flat rod with a pointy end and a fancy-schmancy handle.  Good for you, m'lad, good for you. Give it a bit of a swing about, and treat yourself to a cucumber sandwich. 


Just remember that old addage that says: my quill pen is mightier. 

/neener!

[Black Armor]

Even with the peace tying of the blades, I would suggest to everyone that they keep "weapon retention" in mind and practice it while wearing said weapon(s).  By that I mean not leaving the weapon completely exposed to anyone who decides they want to grab it.  A good way of keeping the weapon protected from "grabby" people is by leaving a hand or arm draped over it as much as possible so that someone has to move your arm to get to your weapon. 

I have had many instances where patrons have come up to me and grabbed and pulled on my costume without my permission either out of curiosity or because they think it might be funny.  I certainly wouldn't want them pulling on my weapons even if they were secured with a zip-tie.  I think it would just be a good habit to get into and would be an extra bit of a precautionary measure.

[robert of armstrong]

O I agree with part of your statement we are all in agreement that the color coding process has a purpose and I look down upon the fool who feels otherwise. But it in no ways has anything to do with alcohol consumption. To even bring up the the idea that alcohol plays a part in this policy is both irrational on illogical. The variables involve make the matter so complex that removing the variable of alcohol actually makes the reality of piece tied weapons plausible. To assume color coded peace ties is used to grant or deny access or consumption to areas or alcohol is irrational. For in order for that system to work every person must be carrying a weapon and we know that will not happen.

Instead of coming up with uneducated conjectures as to the purpose of color coding peace ties we should just accept that the code serve an unknown purpose and we should accept the rule and have another great faire season.

I was trying to enlighten regarding examples where different colored ties may be used, other than Peace Tying.  I know that when I visited a Faire two years ago (I can't remember if it were Pensylvania RF or Ohio RF), I tried to buy a mug of beer, but was denied, and told to go back to the gate, show my ID and get a bracelet.  At the gate I showed my ID, but they said that they didn't have any of the paper adhisive bracelets left, so they put a red zip tie on my wrist instead, and I had no problem ordering a mead or two after that.  It was just one example.  I'm not saying this is the only application, nor the one that MiRF will use, or if they will even use a color system.  And if they did, I have better things to do than try to decode it.

That being said....

I agree wholeheartedly with Black Armor, that even with peace ties, each person carrying needs to be responsible for their weapon.  Before attending the Faire, if you are not familiar with weapon retention, try strapping on you steel, and get comfortable wearing it.  Get familiar with the idea that your hand is the only one that will be touching its handle.  If it is a blade on you hip, get used to resting your weak hand on it's pommel.  This happens naturally to most people, and becomes almost second nature quickly, like having your hand on you hip on in your pocket.  If you are carrying another type of weapon, put it on ahead of time and get used to the idea that it's retention is your responsibility.

But beyond that, have some forthought as to your peace tie.  Even if a tie will be affixed at the gate, that weapon is your responsibility.  Although I am sure they will do a great job of securing your weapon for you, you should not rely on others for something you should take responsibility for yourself.  I suggest that you peace tie your weapon as well, before the gate, and in a manner such that even if you were not able to stop some ignorant fool from getting hold of the grip, that there would be no way for that weapon could be pulled from it's home without a pair of nippers or wire cutters.

As well, while you are practicing wearing your steel, become aware of the space you are now taking up.  You weapon may stick out behind you a distance of 2-3 feet, depending on the application.  Be aware of this as you practice manouvering around your house wearing you steel, trying not to know things over.  This will help you as you enter shops and booths at the Faire.  If your weapon knocks something over, be prepared to pay for it.

Carrying steel in the Shire is a privledge, and along with it comes responsibilities.  Safety and consideration for others should be paramount. If you feel, for whatever reason you cannot uphold the burdens associated with carrying your steel at a Faire, I suggest that you reconsider the thought of carrying at all.

[King Henry Tudor]

I totally agree with Black Armor and Robert of Armstrong - even if your weapon is peace-tied you should still be conscious of and responsible for it. 

In my past three years of doing Faires and many promos, I've never had someone try to grab my weapon.  I credit this largely a result of me nearly always having my left hand either resting on the pommell or actually holding the grip.  The latter I tend to do more, especially in crowded lanes or shops, so I can maneuver my "tail" (scabbard) out of the way of people and things.  It's the very FIRST thing I teach people about carrying a weapon - never forget you have 3 foot hard tail!  When standing in a crowd or near an area with a lot of moving people, I've also learned to tuck my scabbard behind my left leg and in front of my right (sort of like tucking my tail between my legs) so as not to trip anyone who may pass by.  This is easiest with a hanging sword frog or sword hanger, more difficult to do if you use a sword frog that attaches very close to your belt or just have your scabbard tucked under your belt. 

With a little research, thought, and practice, you'll find what works best to keep your weapon, yourself, and those around you safe.

[Lord Pumpernickel]

Although I dare not agree with your reasoning and and precautions of carrying a weapon into faire. I do believe that it is an over statement of the natural reality. To put forth the statistics/physics and apply mathematics to the possibility of someone else stealing your weapon while peace tied is minimum and nearly ignorable. To think someone will steal your blade while peaced tied is stupid and irrational. And very rare is it that one forgets about the extended length of their blade that can hit others. I have yet to hear of a complaint of someone else's miss carriage of a weapon.

True what we are granted is a privileged and we should prove we can handle the responsibility of carrying a weapon. When does it come to a point though we become overly worried that we destroy the enjoyment of the privilege and make the chore so hard to be exstreamly responsible that it annihilates the entire purpose of carrying the weapon.

[Margaret]

Although I dare not agree with your reasoning and and precautions of carrying a weapon into faire. I do believe that it is an over statement of the natural reality. To put forth the statistics/physics and apply mathematics to the possibility of someone else stealing your weapon while peace tied is minimum and nearly ignorable. To think someone will steal your blade while peaced tied is stupid and irrational. And very rare is it that one forgets about the extended length of their blade that can hit others. I have yet to hear of a complaint of someone else's miss carriage of a weapon.

True what we are granted is a privileged and we should prove we can handle the responsibility of carrying a weapon. When does it come to a point though we become overly worried that we destroy the enjoyment of the privilege and make the chore so hard to be exstreamly responsible that it annihilates the entire purpose of carrying the weapon.

While I do agree that the incidence for folks trying to grab blades left and right is more likely low I do have to agree that walking in a crowd with a sword strapped to your side will take practice and something people who are not used to carrying weapons will have to be aware of.

[King Henry Tudor]

Yes, I'll grant you the chance is remote of someone attempting to steal your weapon, peace-tied or not, nor have I heard many complaints resulting from miss-handled sword scabbards.  Anyone who carries a weapon, though, should err on the side of caution.  Those of us under contract by a Festival, for legal reasons, must be aware of our actions and how they may affect a patron, fellow performer, or vendor.  It's unfortunate we must expend thought to such matters but in the litigation-happy times we live it is a necessity.  Just another element to weave into one's character and maintain throughout a day of Faire, making it a challenge and keeping things interesting.

[robert of armstrong]

the possibility of someone else stealing your weapon while peace tied is minimum and nearly ignorable. To think someone will steal your blade while peaced tied is stupid and irrational.

And very rare is it that one forgets about the extended length of their blade that can hit others. I have yet to hear of a complaint of someone else's miss carriage of a weapon.

Seriously?

First, your first statement:

In all the peace-tie debates of old (from the old forums), the main argument against allowing weapons at Faires almost always reverted back to cases where weapons have been grabbed by a mundane who thought it would be funny/clever/whatever to take staff member's or playtron's weapon and wave it around, possibly injuring anothyer person.  If this happens, no more weapons, period.  Although mathematically the risk of having someone disarm another may be low, giving advice on futher minimizing risk is always a good idea.  What you are saying is that I am suggesting that people be too safe.  I'm not sure that is possible, especially where weapons and public places are involved.  To sugest that we ignore the risk that someone else may be irresponsible and do something dangerous is irresponsible in and of itself.  To suggest people ignore that possiblility is foolhardy at best.  Better to be safe than to be one of the defendants in a lawsuit where your weapon was used by another to injure someone.

And, your second statement:

I have had the good fortune to visit Faires for a few years with weapons-friendly and peace tie policies.  I have seen, and been vicitm of, people who have forgotten about their "hard tail" (never thought of it that way).  I have been struck on the legs by other's scabbards as they turn around without consideration.  Yes, it was a minor hit, just an inconvieniece, but one I could do without.  And if it happens to me several times a visit, I can only imagine I am not the only one being struck by accident.  And I have seen booths with breakables knocked over, with disasterous consequences.  Would you expect the vendor to cover the cost of your forgetfulness?  If you were the vendor, would you tell someone who broke several hundred dollars of you wares with their scabbard that it was okay, that you would eat the cost?

Unless I am missing something, I am being chastized for preparing some who have not have the experience of carrying to be aware of themselves, their environment, and the consequences.  I want there to be no complaints stemming from the new weapons policy.  Not a mathematically insignificant number of complaints, but zero.  See, compaints are things that get things taken away, and I hope that the new weapons policy works out perfectly so it can be a permanent fixture.

Sorry for thinking that a little preparation before hand wouldn't be too much to ask.