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Author Topic: Stereotyped  (Read 7713 times)

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Offline pirateslife4me

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Re: Stereotyped
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2010, 12:09:47 PM »
Ok, let me make myself clear. I appreciate the talents of you performers out there. And you guys have taught me to not look at Ren performers as just glorified carnies or carnies in general. In fact, based on the comments and experiences everybody has mentioned, I believe you guys do not even belong in the same discussion as carnies. However,  I made a comment about the carnival industry in my original post that offended Rani. "By the way, not ALL workers in the carnival industry are bad people. But, let's face it; there is a reason they have a bad reputation." Again, I'm not bashing the Ren. Festival Industry and performers. However, I am critical of the carnival industry. Let's seperate the two. Rani, if you'd stop looking at the industry through rose colored glasses, you'd understand where I'm coming from. You have to admit that the carnival industry gets a bad rap. Whethor or not there are good people who work in the industry is beside the point. The fact of the matter is, the public perception of the carnival industry is not a good one and the industry has brought this reputation upon itself. Have you ever seen Carnivale? This used to be a show on HBO that was based around a traveling carnival. Whether or not this portrayal is representative of the carnival industry is neither her nor there. But, the producers obviously had their own vision and stereotypes of what the carnival industry is like and their vision goes along with how the public perceives the carnival industry. Now, you're going to say that you can't base your perception on the carnival industry based upon a television show. And that's true. But, again, the producers are just going along with what everybody else's vision of the carnival industry is like. And if the industry wants to shake that shady reputation, they need to do a major public relations push in order to change the public's perception of their industry.

Offline Rani Zemirah

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Re: Stereotyped
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2010, 12:43:31 AM »
Wow... just... wow.  There is so much wrong in this statement that I'm having a hard time knowing where to begin...

I worked in the carnival industry off and on for over 10 years, for at least 30 different employers, sometimes finding a different gig with a different owner at each show, all over the country, at a time when most small owners booked in with larger shows just so they could stay on the road.  Now most of the shows that play anything more than strip mall parking lot spots are owned entirely by a single company, with uniforms, drug tests and background checks. 

If you think Hollywood producers base anything at all on what the general population thinks about ANYTHING... then it's you who needs to get rid of the blinders.  You are basing this opinion of yours on nothing more than a Hollywood interpretation of "reality"... and it seems that everyone but you knows how often "reality" shows even remotely resemble anything real at all.  Should I assume that you believe life is actually like "Real Life", or "The Bachelor", or maybe even "Jersey Shore"?  Perhaps you go out dancing every weekend with "The Stars", and have dinner parties with the "Real Housewives"?  Maybe you even have cooking competitions in "Hell's Kitchen", and eat whatever you're able to catch with the "Survivors".  Had any run-ins with "Dog the Bounty Hunter" lately, or partied with the "Girls Gone Wild"?  Where, exactly, is the "reality" in any of those?  There is none... it's all just choreographed sensationalism, because that's what sells. 

Why should two of the several factions of what, in reality, are simply subsets of a single industry have to be separated?  "Learning" to see Rennies as being somehow better than Carnies, either in general or "glorified", shows that you are still passing judgment on something you admittedly know little to nothing about, other than what (now) Hollywood has led you to believe.  Whether they are performers, vendors or gamers, show people are show people, and are there to provide entertainment for the patrons, no matter what the sub-industry, and trying to separate them into "class", or categorize them as "good", "bad" or even "neutral" is still just another way of passing judgment.  There are both good and bad people in every industry, every profession and every calling, and to attempt to paint them all with the same brush is just a way of trying to say that the observer is somehow "better" than they are.  Generalizations do nothing more than show a lack of information on the part of the one making them...

Have you polled the entire "public", enough to know that this is, indeed, their overall perception, or do you just assume it is, because it conveniently fits in with your own opinion?  Please do not condescend to me and suggest that I am some simple minded female who wants to see the world as all rosy, wonderful and kind, or talk down to me as though you are somehow either more intelligent, or better informed, than I could possibly be.  I have been places and done things that you cannot even imagine, and seen far more bad than good, so I am seldom given to candy-coating anything at all, as a few here may be willing to attest. 

Perhaps what the industry actually needs, more than public relations, is fewer people who are determined to tar and feather them in order to show how very tolerant they are to other, less offensive yet similar groups who perform a similar function, and occupy a comparable station in life...


You know, for several hundred years in southern Europe there have been places where the ruling classes have put a price on the heads of any "Gypsy", or Roma, that were caught and killed, no matter where they were found, or what they were doing.  Other places simply kept them as slaves, some even until as late as the mid 1800's, and in some countries they are still persecuted and forced to live in a state of poverty, not being allowed to educate their children or even immigrate if they so choose.  All because "popular opinion" says that they way the choose to live is "different", and therefore bad.  They have been vilified, slandered and "ethnically cleansed" until some few of the things they were originally falsely accused of (theft, mainly) became their only means of survival in some parts of a world increasingly intolerant of perceived differences, and seemingly determined to exterminate them all... and even today these opinions prevail in many places, mainly because of the efforts of people who refuse to let go of their disdain for anything they don't understand, and their personal desire to have someone or something to which they are able to feel in some way superior.  There are countless other groups who have suffered similarly throughout age after age, and in every age there are always those who are willing to use "popular opinion" as a cudgel with which to beat them down...

You may judge as you see fit, that is your right.  However, you may not require that I agree with your judgment, or that I even attempt to understand where you are "coming from".  I do not agree with anything that you have stated, and I still see your choice of words and generalizations as being offensive, to Rennies as well as Carnies. 
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Offline Celtic_Fae

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Re: Stereotyped
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2010, 02:25:29 AM »
Ok, let me make myself clear. I appreciate the talents of you performers out there. And you guys have taught me to not look at Ren performers as just glorified carnies or carnies in general. In fact, based on the comments and experiences everybody has mentioned, I believe you guys do not even belong in the same discussion as carnies. However,  I made a comment about the carnival industry in my original post that offended Rani. "By the way, not ALL workers in the carnival industry are bad people. But, let's face it; there is a reason they have a bad reputation." Again, I'm not bashing the Ren. Festival Industry and performers. However, I am critical of the carnival industry. Let's seperate the two. Rani, if you'd stop looking at the industry through rose colored glasses, you'd understand where I'm coming from. You have to admit that the carnival industry gets a bad rap. Whethor or not there are good people who work in the industry is beside the point. The fact of the matter is, the public perception of the carnival industry is not a good one and the industry has brought this reputation upon itself. Have you ever seen Carnivale? This used to be a show on HBO that was based around a traveling carnival. Whether or not this portrayal is representative of the carnival industry is neither her nor there. But, the producers obviously had their own vision and stereotypes of what the carnival industry is like and their vision goes along with how the public perceives the carnival industry. Now, you're going to say that you can't base your perception on the carnival industry based upon a television show. And that's true. But, again, the producers are just going along with what everybody else's vision of the carnival industry is like. And if the industry wants to shake that shady reputation, they need to do a major public relations push in order to change the public's perception of their industry.

The fact of the matter is, the reputation off these boards about RENAISSANCE FESTIVALS is not a good one, either, thanks to Hollywood and stereotypes. The stereotypes about Renaissance performers and faires abound, too: they're just sex/drug/booze fests; the women are cheap "scores", everyone is dirty/smelly, etc. The carnivals I've attended (up and down the eastern seaboard for 15+ years, if you need a credibility reference), have always been crawling with families. I doubt they suffer much of a poor reputation if multitudes of families still return year after year. Funny, there are plenty of carnivals in Florida, but I know of several Renaissance festivals that have been denied their permits because of the listed misconceptions above.

And, no, the producers aren't going to go along with "with what everybody else's vision of the carnival industry is like"-they are going to go with the most entertaining, possibly most controversial depiction because that's what sells seats at the theatre. The same can be said about Renaissance festivals/events/the time period in general depictions coming out of Hollywood. So, like Rani said, you can either grow up and stop believing everything you see on television, or you can remain behind your tinted glasses that you so falsely accused Rani of bearing.

Offline Auryn

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Re: Stereotyped
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2010, 10:02:24 AM »
I smell troll
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Offline Rani Zemirah

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Re: Stereotyped
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2010, 10:48:55 AM »
Yeah, I started thinking the same thing after my little (ok, maybe not so little... :P ) fit of indignation...  LOL  

Sometimes the soapbox just calls out my name, though, y'know?  ::)  Maybe there's a 12 step program for that...
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 10:50:13 AM by Rani Zemirah »
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Offline Anna Iram

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Re: Stereotyped
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2010, 11:24:23 AM »
Not a fit of indignation, Rani. Rather you were doing "a major public relations push in order to change the public's perception of their industry."  ;)

*shrug* My thoughts are there are creepy people where ever you wander, and we all wear glasses to some degree. Regardless, it's not the responsiblity of any group to "prove" themselves to anyone. If a newcomer really wishes to see the "rosier" side to ren life he will look for it, and I assure him he will find it.

I do suggest, Piratelife4me, that you reconsider your approach. It is a bit "trollish" though perhaps you don't mean to come across as such. Look for the beauty in this community. It is there.  :)


« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 11:25:29 AM by Anna Iram »

Offline Rani Zemirah

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Re: Stereotyped
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2010, 11:45:47 AM »
Anna, you kinda rock a little... y'know that?  ;)
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Offline temper

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Re: Stereotyped
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2010, 11:14:15 AM »
Anyway...

I have been stereotyped because of the renfaire stuff but not quite like that.
* As into things like Satan, death, goth lifestyle because I use swords
* Loose morally "because we all know what happens at the renfaire after hours."
(And let me be specific, I don't CARE what happens between consenting adults, a pony and hand puppets, I just don't flow that way)
* People thinking that the renfaire makes us a family-as in "I treat my family like dirt so you should assent to it as well"
* That I think playtrons should get preferential treatment instead of Bubba Joe who is joking around with me.
* That I do this because I'm not "bright" enough to "hold a real job" (Bad news on both counts for the person opening the mouth)
Temper; what makes a good sword, be sure to keep it.

Offline stonebiscuit

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Re: Stereotyped
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2010, 12:59:00 PM »
Quote
* People thinking that the renfaire makes us a family-as in "I treat my family like dirt so you should assent to it as well"

Have you also found that "we're a family" is often followed by "so everyone is taking pay cuts"?

Offline Tipsy Gypsy

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Re: Stereotyped
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2010, 01:01:15 PM »
/note to self: do not ruffle Rani's plumage! :D

I've run into stereotyping even by friends I've known for 20 years. I've run the gamut of trying to laugh it off, explaining gently that there is more to us than they think they know (and showing them some of Paul and Valt's lovely portraits, pointing out people who in the mundane world are teachers, engineers, scientists, law enforcement, rescue, etc.), and sharp pointy reminders that their enthusiasm for... whatever the heck makes their day... brands them with a stereotype in the eyes of others, too- and how do they like that?

Anymore, I've come to the conclusion that you really can't fix stupid, and sometimes you can't fix ignorant, either. I don't waste a lot of effort trying.
"It's just water, officer, I swear. And yeast. And a little honey. How the alcohol got in, I have no idea!"

Offline Rani Zemirah

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Re: Stereotyped
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2010, 05:57:56 PM »
/note to self: do not ruffle Rani's plumage! :D


LOL  C'mon... I'm not really all that scary, am I?  :D



Well, gee, maybe I am!  I seem to have killed this thread... dead.  :P
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 04:50:15 PM by Rani Zemirah »
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Offline jcbanner

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Re: Stereotyped
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2011, 09:00:22 PM »
Avoiding the slippery spots left by the soap boxes here ;)

3 months isn't too far dead to pull back to life when it's still on the top page is it?  I think theres still some meat left of the bones of this topic!


Did anybody else laugh at this line?

Boy, that is amazing the amount of time you guys put into your craft during the day. Really impressive!! And I'm sure your not getting rich off of it either! But, I would imagine it beats a regular 9 to 5 job!!

I'm sure there are a few people that make a living doing this, but for most I'm sure its mostly for the enjoyment.  I don't make any money at the renfaire, and the people I know who do, still have regular day jobs.

Offline crashbot

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Re: Stereotyped
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2011, 10:17:34 PM »
Oh brother, stop getting so twisted about something so trivial. There are stereotypes about all walks of life, who cares. 
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices. - Voltaire

Offline Kathleen MacFerno

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Re: Stereotyped
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2011, 11:29:07 AM »
I wrote an entire ethnography on (basically) this topic for my writing class last year. I interviewed people from the boards and compiled the whole thing with other research. It's fairly long but if you'd like to read it I can email it... let me know :)

Offline stonebiscuit

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Re: Stereotyped
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2011, 12:40:32 PM »
Boy, that is amazing the amount of time you guys put into your craft during the day. Really impressive!! And I'm sure your not getting rich off of it either! But, I would imagine it beats a regular 9 to 5 job!!
I'm sure there are a few people that make a living doing this, but for most I'm sure its mostly for the enjoyment.  I don't make any money at the renfaire, and the people I know who do, still have regular day jobs.

I know a number of people for whom ren faires are their primary or only job. It's not exactly a common profession, but it's not uncommon either.

 

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