Let's talk about sleeves and sleeve construction

[gem]

I've never made sleeves for any of my gowns (because it's usually too hot to wear them), but now that the purple kirtle is essentially done, it's time to make a pair or two! We've talked a lot about how best to attach tie-on sleeves, but now I'd love to discuss sleeve construction--layers, lining, etc.

I want to make one set of paned sleeves (Margo Anderson pattern) from matching purple damask, and maybe another set in a different style in some other fabric (maybe that pinked suedecloth I bought).

How many layers do you like in your sleeves? The purple damask is a medium weight (it began life as a tablecloth); it makes a good skirt but I'm not sure if it will need to be flatlined for sleeves. I definitely don't want it to be as stiff as the bodice (!), but nobody wants limp sleeves, either.

Has anyone made reversible sleeves? I think that should be fairly simple for paned sleeves that are piped at the edges, yes?

Any other tips or suggestions for sleeve construction? It takes me forever to make a gown, but new sleeves would be a great way to get a fresh look a lot faster!

Gramercy!

[LadyFae]

We made some really basic reversable sleeves for AuntieGiggles.  One side is gold the olther is navy- each side matches an underskirt.  They are rectangular, closed in three spots with pearl buttons and tie on.  Nothing fancy and she rarely needs to wear them, but they look cute just hanging, too.

[isabelladangelo]

For my tie on sleeves, I typically just cut out two trapezoids.  They are about 22" long, 18" across the top, 7 1/2" across the bottom.  Sew up the one seam, roll the edges for the cuffs and upper edge and that's it.

I have made the angled more Elizabethan sleeves as well that make it so it won't wrinkle when you have your armed bent but those are more for jackets.   If you are just tying on your sleeves, the trapezoid method works perfectly. 

[operafantomet]

For 16th century sleeves, I usually cut them in one piece. Sometimes I line them, sometimes I don't.

For high Renaissance dresses (the Raphael ones, ca. 1505) I used the diagram of Jennifer Thompson/Festive attire. Those sleeves are very wide, curved at the top and also curving at the sides. For the Unicorn dress they're made of wine red silk velvet, and lined with the same grey linen as the bodice (the silk velvet is very soft, these sleeves needs some ooomph). For the contemporary Raphael dress I made reversible blue and orange sleeves, using the same diagram. I basically cut one orange layer and one blue layer, put the wrong sides together, and slipstitched the top and bottom together. Both dresses have tie-on sleeves. Here's a picture of the Unicorn one before sewing:


Finished Unicorn sleeve: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/unicorn/unicornchios9.jpg
Finished Raphael sleeve: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/raphaelgown/raphaelj9.jpg

Here's the diagram at Festive Attire:
http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/diary/images/sleevepattern.gif

The blue Peacock dress has the same concept, but is narrower. The sleeve is still curved at top, but not at the sides. It has four vertical trims (one put on top of the seam after sewn) and with angled slits as seen in a period portrait. However, this cut alone gave a very Elizabethan look; narrow with rounded sleeve cap. I wanted Italian. So I added a horizontal strip with vertical "tabs" to the upper sleeve (an idea I took from the crimson Pisa dress), and it helped a lot. The blue sleeve is lined with greyish green polyester, same as the skirt. I could have left it unlined, but was a bit worried about the slits and how my arm might get stuck in them when dressing...


Finished Peacock sleeve:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/pavonazzo/blueflor20back.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/pavonazzo/sleevecap3.jpg

I used about the same pattern for the Venetian dress sleeves, except they weren't slit all over. Instead they got 5 (or 6?) slits in the upper shoulder, as seen here:
Inspiration: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/tizian1555fruit.jpg
The dress: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/venetian/venmai5.jpg

ETA: For attaching the sleeves to the shoulders, I have previously sewn parallelle ribbons to the sleeve and the shoulder straps and tied them together. But for the Peacock one I tried out a different approach, sewing a small metal loop to the inside of the shoulder, and a folded ribbon to the sleeve. Passing one end of the ribbon through the loop and them make a knot and bow gave a very tidy and period look. It can also be done the opposite way, with a folded ribbon on the shoulder, and a metal loop on the sleeve. Both can be seen in many period paintings.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze3/allori1595.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/cremona/campocremona1580s4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/bergamo/pietronzelli1580scarminebergamo1.jpg

A third option is to make lacing holes or attach metal loops to both shoulder and sleeves, and pass a cord through these, as here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/bologne/pfontana16thcholyfamilybologna.jpg

As usual, these are all Italian. But I'm sure others will fill in on other styles!

[operafantomet]

The sleeves of the crimson Pisa dress has the kind of trapezoid sleeves Isabella mentioned. And come to think of it, I had to cut down the sleeve cap quite a bit when I added the "baragoni" to the blue Peacock sleeves. So if you have a sleevecap like in the picture I posted, it would make a more Elizabethan than Florentine sleeve.

Here's the pattern of the crimson Pisa dress as drafted by Thessy Schoenholzer Nichols:

[DonaCatalina]

I use a lot of the same type patterns, most of which I drafted on the back of wrapping paper. Most commercial patterns have sleeves that are shaped in such a way that it is difficult to make them detachable. I use some pretty heavy cotton brocades, jacquard and brocatelle's for my dresses so for the most part I don't flat line the sleeves. The exception would be the large bell shaped open sleeves of the type made popular by Isabella of Portugal.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x71/Dona_Catalina/Scarby%202009/SoloApril192009.jpg
You can see in the dress linked above that I lined the black embroidered velvet sleeves with a burgaundy silk just for color.
I don't think you will have limp sleeves if you are not using silk, thin cotton or linen. The weave of the fabric is usually enough to give your sleeves body.
Below are some paned sleevs in progress. They are cotton jacquard lined with very thin matching cotton just to cover the back of the embroidery and enclose the seams.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x71/Dona_Catalina/Other%20Garb%20Projects/Uppersleeve.jpg

[gem]

Thanks, everyone!  I bought some gold jacquard for the reverse of the sleeves yesterday. Margo Anderson suggests flatlining the panels with canvas, but from what you guys are saying, that sounds like it may be overkill. The black piping I made is pretty stiff by itself and should keep the panels from being floppy.

I realized I need FORTY-EIGHT BUTTONS for these sleeves!  They're going to end up being the most expensive part of the dress!  And if I make the sleeves reversible, I think I'll need 96! So instead I picked up some gold spacer beads (@ $3.00 for 22), and if the sleeves go together the way I think they do, the beads will be visible from both sides.

[isabelladangelo]

Thanks, everyone!  I bought some gold jacquard for the reverse of the sleeves yesterday. Margo Anderson suggests flatlining the panels with canvas, but from what you guys are saying, that sounds like it may be overkill. The black piping I made is pretty stiff by itself and should keep the panels from being floppy.

I realized I need FORTY-EIGHT BUTTONS for these sleeves!  They're going to end up being the most expensive part of the dress!  And if I make the sleeves reversible, I think I'll need 96! So instead I picked up some gold spacer beads (@ $3.00 for 22), and if the sleeves go together the way I think they do, the beads will be visible from both sides.

Ouch!  Reversible buttons sleeves?  That sounds like it would hurt if you actually put your arm down on any type of surface.  No leaning on the table with those! 

Try ebay and etsy for buttons.  I'm still using the uh...500 or so I bought on ebay many years ago for $15.  They are simple silver shanked buttons that are relatively generic for any time period.   I just used some on my Mom's 18th C gown.   

[DonaCatalina]

Too bad you don't live in Dallas. We could go down to the fabric district on Perth street and you could get all the buttons you want. If you saw pics of my husband at Sherwood Forest Fair; that blue velvet cotehardie had 62 silver metal buttons that I got for .25 each.
But try etsy for buttons. I've found some doosies on there for heavy gold metal buttons.

[sealion]

Thanks, everyone!  I bought some gold jacquard for the reverse of the sleeves yesterday. Margo Anderson suggests flatlining the panels with canvas, but from what you guys are saying, that sounds like it may be overkill. The black piping I made is pretty stiff by itself and should keep the panels from being floppy.

I realized I need FORTY-EIGHT BUTTONS for these sleeves!  They're going to end up being the most expensive part of the dress!  And if I make the sleeves reversible, I think I'll need 96! So instead I picked up some gold spacer beads (@ $3.00 for 22), and if the sleeves go together the way I think they do, the beads will be visible from both sides.

The dress I'm wearing in my avatar has Margo's paned sleeves. The sleeves are lined with cotton but not interlined. I used glass pearls from a broken necklace instead of buttons at each connection point. Next time I make paned sleeves I want to narrower panes- 4 per sleeve instead of three.

button & loop sleeves by sea95lion is Cindy!, on Flickr
The sleeves for this dress are unlined and made from the Festive Attyre pattern Anea showed:

Blue Florentine by sea95lion is Cindy!, on Flickr
My Campi dresses have reversible sleeves made from linen using Margo's curved sleeve pattern:

Mulberry Campi by sea95lion is Cindy!, on Flickr
Then there's always the "Ever After" sleeves which are basically just tubes (these are reversible, too, with the jaquard on one side and velvet on the other.):

Kacie's Gown by sea95lion is Cindy!, on Flickr
PS- Don't forget to make your camecia/smock sleeves extremely long if you want nice poofs showing with your paned sleeves!

[gem]

Cindy, I love your paned damask sleeves! Thank you for posting them again; I just saw the binding that holds them together at the top, and would have been confused by that part in the pattern without seeing yours first.

I am eager to get started; I just need Milord to come home and measure one of my arms so I can decide what size to make!