To Kirtle, or to Gown?

[insidiousraven]

So I just started taking sewing lessons at the Bernina store, and I bought Margo Anderson's Tudor and Elizabethan Lady patterns.  I want my first costume project to be a lower/middle class outift, and was thinking of a kirtle, something akin to the blue dress the lower class lady is wearing on the cover of the Tudor pattern with pretty guards.

Anywho, I was reading into the patterns, and it seems like they instruct for a lower class lady to wear both a kirtle and a gown.  I always thought they just wore kirtles over a long smock.

So my question is, is it appropriate to make a boned kirtle with guards and just wear that over a smock?  Or do I need to make both a kirtle and a gown to go over it? As I'm trying to be historical here, I don't want to look like I'm running around in my underwear.

Thanks!

[gem]

That is ABSOLUTELY appropriate!!  If you go through the Finished Projects thread, you can find the gorgeous maternity kirtle that Alisoun made from that pattern--russet linen with blue guards at the neckline.

A plain kirtle will serve you beautifully, and you can add pieces later to change the look of the outfit.I'm just wrapping up a kirtle I'm making from some damask tablecloths. I've decided to make some paned sleeves to wear with it, so that it can become a "gown" with just a quick addition. I'm also wanting to make an English fitted gown (link is to one made by RF Member CenturiesSewing) to wear with it, if I can ever find some charcoal grey wool flannel.

Have fun! I've been making my kirtle at my Viking dealer's weekly sewing studio. You will blow the minds of your classmates (and possibly confuse your teacher--but don't be afraid to come to the Sewing forum and ask questions if that happens!).

[DonaCatalina]

I would also like to recommend the Tudor Tailor for reading material. They explain the various garment bits in great detail and how they were worn.

[isabelladangelo]

A kirtle over a smock is perfectly appropriate.  Although a gown is typically worn- it's typically worn in the winter when you need that extra warmth.  http://www.wga.hu/art/zgothic/miniatur/1501-550/1flemish/05f_1500.jpg
Although a lower class illumination, I couldn't find the middle class one I know of.  At least, you can see wearing just a kirtle was done.

[gem]

I thought there were worn-alone kirtles in Fete at Bermondsey, but all I'm seeing are worn with other gowns.

It's later (1620s), but here's Gentileschi's lute player in just her kirtle:

[operafantomet]

In Italy kirtles (sottanas) were worn on their own in the most of the 16th century, and for domestic/rural style also for some of the 17th century. The Italian word for the dress - sottana - implies it's meant to be worn under another garb, but it gained status as an independent dress. They were usually side/back laced, as the Orazio Gentileschi painting gem posted. Skirt and bodice was usually sewn together, while the sleeves were detachable.

In depictions of Italian working class women, the sleeves are usually removed, and the chemise sleeves often folded/tied up. An apron is also usually worn. I assume you're more interested in English working class, since you're using Tudor and Elizabethan patterns, but here's still a link with pictures of Italian working women:

http://aneafiles.webs.com/renaissancegallery/italianworkingclass.html

[insidiousraven]

Thanks for the input!  I'm glad I can wear just the kirtle.  I thought I could, the blurb in the pattern is what threw me off.  I really like those Italian styles, I might just throw England out the window!