need help on ideas for gypsy garb

[April Marie]

please help.  i am working on developing a gypsy character and i dont have really an idea where to start.  i have been looking up stuff online but there is soooo much!  i am starting to feel like one of the bing! commercials!!!!! 

[isabelladangelo]

Are you looking for Disney Gypsy or true historical Roma?   These are two VERY different types of garb.

[April Marie]

more like an in between.  I want it to look less like a costume but I do like stuff like the coin skirt and etc

[isabelladangelo]

Okay, anything with a coin scarf will be Disney.   This is a fantasy and it's pretty much whatever you want to do.   Most go with some sort of twirly skirt, a puffy blouse, a scarf around the waist, a scarf around the head, and enough jewelry to set off a metal detector from ten feet away.  ;-)  Jewel tones are most popular.

Actual Roma wore something completely different.
http://www.larsdatter.com/romani.htm  <-this site has some of the best information

[April Marie]

thank you so much for your help!

[operafantomet]

Do a quick search for "Fortune teller", and most of the paintings showing up will show period gypsy/romani style - or how the period spectator would expect them to look.

A good basis is a white chemise with wide sleeves (or a blouse) and various scarves. Then you can choose to wear a draped fabric on top, an actual period dress (preferably sleeveless or with sleeves detached) or a corset and wide skirt.

The scarf thing is actually not a myth, but the coin decorated ones are more modern belly dance accessories than a typical period gypsy item. Gypsies were thought to come from Egypt, though ('gypties), so I can see where the styles crossed. Go for a white with embroidery, or a multi-coloured stripy one instead.

Gypsies were in general "noisier" in style than others - or that's how they're depicted, anyway - with more stripes, more mixed patterns. There's usually also more chemise/blouse showing (though not more than what for example working class women wore at home or at work). This is an interesting depiction, showing several gypsy/romani women stealing from a young noble man:
http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00026/Fortune-Teller-by_Ge_26353b.jpg

The link Isabella posted is also very helpful.

That said, I do like the "Disney take" on gypsies as well. Esmeralda has a cool style.

[Toua Taru]

These are some great resources! I was recently inspired to do Gypsy/Traveler garb after watching Korkoro (movie based on a Gypsy family living in Nazi-occupied France) --> Not period for Renaissnace, but that's okay because inspiration doesn't rely on specific time frames.

Any who this is a good site I thought for period or appropriate gypsy garbing: http://westwood.fortunecity.com/armani/208/costume.html No pictures there on the page but there is a photo gallery that I haven't ventured in.

Is the scarf around the waist similar to the blanket they wore as depicted in the paintings? I found another site that has a pattern for that.

I hope this helps! Good luck!!

[isabelladangelo]

These are some great resources! I was recently inspired to do Gypsy/Traveler garb after watching Korkoro (movie based on a Gypsy family living in Nazi-occupied France) --> Not period for Renaissnace, but that's okay because inspiration doesn't rely on specific time frames.

Any who this is a good site I thought for period or appropriate gypsy garbing: http://westwood.fortunecity.com/armani/208/costume.html No pictures there on the page but there is a photo gallery that I haven't ventured in.

Is the scarf around the waist similar to the blanket they wore as depicted in the paintings? I found another site that has a pattern for that.

I hope this helps! Good luck!!

Actually, it's very fantaciful. It's not period but it might be appropriate for the fantasy/Disney line.   

I'm not sure what you mean about the scarf/blanket.  What the period (16th C) Romani wore was basically a chemise with a rectangular piece of cloth tied about the torso.

http://www.wga.hu/art/b/boccacci/boccacci/2/gypsy_g.jpg

http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/c/caravagg/01/07fortun.html

It's tied over one shoulder and sort of hangs around the torso -typically depicted as being below the knees to the floor.   

The whole hip scarf is pure fantasy.   Probably based on a misunderstanding of what the Turkish women were wearing about their waists: http://home.earthlink.net/~al-qurtubiyya/16/Cod.Vind-palace_women.jpg

[Toua Taru]

Yes the Caravaggio painting link you provided is what I was talking about. The dark fabric that ties at the shoulder, I've heard it described as a blanket and is worn in a way to provide a pocket for items to be carried.

I was going for a more traditional gypsy or romani style. It seems a lot of people go with the "Disney" style but that's still fun too

[Adriana Rose]

Look up the Kansas City Renaissance Festival.

I donno if they still do it but there was a HUGE amount of gypsy's there yes I know they arent H/A but that is a good mix of traditional and fun.

[operafantomet]

Yes the Caravaggio painting link you provided is what I was talking about. The dark fabric that ties at the shoulder, I've heard it described as a blanket and is worn in a way to provide a pocket for items to be carried.

Though it might have had a practical mission in terms of warmth and transport and whatnot, I don't think what she wears is too different from the traditional "mantello" (mantel, cloak) Italian women wore. It was usually draped over both shoulders (as we would wear a cloak today), but could also be draped over one, or over the head. The biggest difference is that the gypsy seems to have a permanent way of tying it together at the shoulder, plus the fact that Italian women abandoned the wearing of mantellos in the mid 16th century. Instead they wore sleeved overgarbs like the zimarra (kaftan inspired overdress).

So the gypsy stands out in terms of only wearing a chemise (and possibly underskirt) under the cloak, and in terms of it being old-fashioned to wear a mantello in the late 16th and early 17th century. But as I initially said, her cloak might have served as a blanket at night etc, I have no opinion of that. Here's Italian women from ca. 100 years earlier wearing the mantello:

Draped over both shoulders:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/ghirlandaio1486f.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/carpaccio1495b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/brescia/romanino1510brescia.jpg

Draped over one shoulder:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/cosimo1493.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/carpaccioven.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/roma/pinturicchio1492-95catherine.jpg

Worn over the head:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/roma/lippi1490rome1.jpg


It's usually also what you see in depictions of Christ, the Virgin Mary and the saints. It's a traditional garment from antiquity which was worn through the middle ages and to the renaissance. It was versatile in terms of being made of different materials, from soft silk to waterproof wool, and it could be draped in a variety of ways. But as mentioned, by the mid 16th century it went out of fashion (except as a traveling garment).

Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary with two ways of wearing the mantello. But it is in fact the same type of garment:
http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/jesus-christ-wife.jpg

[Betty Munro]

This was from the larsdatter link Isabella posted ...
http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/v/valentin/musician.html
Musician and Drinkers
c. 1625
That makes is 17th century?  And probably not gypsies, but working class enjoying a drink at the end of the day???  but it is one of the very few that I have seen that shows off some modern day Ren Fair cleavage.

I am TOTALLY bummed that period accurate gypsies are so darned ... terribly ... unattractive.  I'd love to make some "gypsy" garb, and I would really love to make something based on a period portrait, but I want to feel PRETTY/sexy when I go to faire.  I guess that is why most go with Disney's rendition of gypsy!

[isabelladangelo]

This was from the larsdatter link Isabella posted ...
http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/v/valentin/musician.html
Musician and Drinkers
c. 1625
That makes is 17th century?  And probably not gypsies, but working class enjoying a drink at the end of the day???  but it is one of the very few that I have seen that shows off some modern day Ren Fair cleavage.

I am TOTALLY bummed that period accurate gypsies are so darned ... terribly ... unattractive.  I'd love to make some "gypsy" garb, and I would really love to make something based on a period portrait, but I want to feel PRETTY/sexy when I go to faire.  I guess that is why most go with Disney's rendition of gypsy!

Actually, that's the beginning of her working day.  ;-)  That's a prostitute or at least a courtesan.  There are a couple of 17th c paintings that show women with low cut bodices - pretty much all have been shown to be uh...working girls.   

[captmarga]

I don't know if this link will work,
https://www.facebook.com/reqs.php?type=1#!/photo.php?fbid=10150234072150289&set=t.643627791&type=3&theater

But it's my (faire approved) Gypsy costuming.  Scarborough Renaissance Festival, 2011. 

https://www.facebook.com/reqs.php?type=1#!/photo.php?fbid=10150180807357767&set=t.643627791&type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/reqs.php?type=1#!/photo.php?fbid=211291282230464&set=t.643627791&type=3&theater  (WHole lotta swirlin' going on!!!)

Jofranka Whispersteppe.

I have a corset on underneath the striped gwazi style coat.  A long FULL skirt.  Two teal scarves, one on each hip, and one covering my hair (done up in braids and ribbons).  Then I made a rather Russian-looking headdress.  As the Pfuri Di, my character is a little more "old school" than the younger ones, as she was born at the foot of the Carpathian Mountains in Moldavia.

I had several variations on the costuming - interchangeable skirts and blouses.  I also have a rust-and-black that has a short vest worn over a black corset.

https://www.facebook.com/reqs.php?type=1#!/photo.php?fbid=10150123034242792&set=t.643627791&type=3&theater

I wrapped a Pashimina shawl around on cooler days.  Last year I had the scarf up around my face, this year I did more jewelry on my head and left my face free. 

If you can't see the photos, try my FB page (Leah Patton) or email and I'll send some. (captmarga at hotmail dot com)

Marga/aka Jofranka Whispersteppe

[Adriana Rose]

Thats a negatory for the photos, it takes me to the requests page.

[Toua Taru]

I have the same problem as Adriana when clicking the links. It's weird because links provided only half of the address is clickable.

[isabelladangelo]

Facebook is infamous for it's picture issues.  Try putting them up on photobucket or flickr -both free. 

[Toua Taru]

Found you Capt! http://www.facebook.com/CaptMarga#!/CaptMarga Great pics!

Hmm although there are only a few pictures and I don't think they're the ones you listed in the previous post.

[Adriana Rose]

Marga you look great!

Here is some of the things that would be fun and not to mention comfy!

A ghawazee vest- super cute but also it looks great with a bodice like Marga wears it


Here are a few things that I like for a more for fun gypsy look.

Harem pants are good too they can be worn under a skirt on cooler days or with fun scarves on the not so cool days

Personally I trip on them when they are too full in the legs but then again I trip on nothing too.

Cropped bodice- Yet again its very comfy but its cool and it looks very good with a gypsy look and a life save on hot days. Normal bodices also go very well.


I personally like the Stevie Nicks kind of scarves all fringe and flowing


Sorry about the double image I fixed it.

[captmarga]

Facebook is infamous for it's picture issues.  Try putting them up on photobucket or flickr -both free. 

Most of them not taken by me... thus I can't put them in albums...

Marga

[captmarga]

Found you Capt! http://www.facebook.com/CaptMarga#!/CaptMarga Great pics!

Hmm although there are only a few pictures and I don't think they're the ones you listed in the previous post.

If you can access any of them, grab them... I'm not at a computer where I can do so right now.   Most are not in an album, they are loose.  FB makes me nuts sometimes...

Marga

Anyone that wants to see pix, email me.

[lys1022]

Scarborough's Rom from 2011 Costume Parade
Photos #24-40 of this collection

http://www.pbase.com/lys1022/scarby2011fof

[Lady Renee Buchanan]

I have no idea if the garb in the Scarborough Rom Costume Parade is H/A or not, but I just loved the pictures!  To me, it is what I think of when I think of a gypsy. 

Whether or not they actually wore something like that, it doesn't matter to me.  I just loved all of their garb!   

[Toua Taru]

Lys - these are great shots of everyone! It definitely helped.

Lady Renee - I agree even if they aren't H/A the garbs are fabulously portrayed.

[isabelladangelo]

Nope, not H/A but cute. It looks to mix the 20th Century concept of "Renaissance" (ie, Hollywood) with some Turkish garments.  The Gypsies and Turks are two VERY distinct cultural groups that, unfortunately, are put into the "other" in the Western mindset.  

I do have a page on 16th C Turkish if anyone is interested in that.  http://isabelladangelo.webs.com/turkishcoat.htm  I have links to lotsa pictures. Please be mindful that this is Turkish and not Gypsy.   

[April Marie]

you ladies are all fabulous!  thank you for all of the ideas!