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Steampunk Crossover

Started by JCadden, March 12, 2012, 11:35:24 AM

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Rowan MacD

#15
   If a normally Elizabethan themed Renaissance faire has a Steampunk themed weekend, I'm cool with that.  
  But should the festival still be called a 'renaissance faire' on those dates?  

  The problem with calling it by the regular faire name would be that most of the one day or weekend patrons don't really bother to find out what the 'theme' is on any particular weekend.   They just want to pack up the kids and head to the renaissance faire to see princesses, knights and jousting and have a turkey leg or two.   If I showed up with my family expecting to see the middle ages and find myself in the middle of the 19th century, I think I would be disappointed to say the least, especially of I hauled a bunch of my family out there expecting the same show I have always seen in the past.  

  Personally, I think people can and wear what they want to, to what ever event they want.  I recognize that some people want to dress up as their favorite characters and they don't particularly care whether or not the event is appropriate to the costume; so we will continue to see Darth Vader and ninjas walking around.  

 I just know that I wouldn't show up at the Dickens' Christmas at the Old Market weekend dressed as an Elizabethan Noble.  I respect the fact that the regular cast (some of whom are also rennies) are trying to portray the 19th century, and my garb would detract from the overall ambiance.
  That said, I will have to throw my vote behind the folks who say that when non renaissance garb becomes a featured part of faire, it is no longer a Renaissance Faire but a cosplay convention.



small edit for grammer...gah I'm tired
 

 
What doesn't kill me-had better run.
IWG wench #3139 
19.7% FaireFolk pure-80.3% FaireFolk corrupt

Delireus

I had a discussion at my steampunk club about this last night. A big 'problem' with steampunk is that everyone has their own definition. Some people completely base it off of Victorian culture and costume, and stick strictly to that. They don't want the gadgets or goggles, and that's totally fine. Still others set steampunk in the future, in a sort of post-apocalyptic setting. However, a big percentage deal with time travel as a key element, hence the merger of past and future ideas. If some can accept Star Trek time traveling, would steampunk not be acceptable too? (If you don't like trekkies at a faire, this might not apply to you)

Why is this acceptable (I assume, I haven't heard anything against it) Does this guy make you feel like you're in the Renaissance era?


or this (once again, no one is upset about fairies)


but not this (which is labeled as a steampunk outfit by the maker, Damsel in this Dress)


Nothing against any of these people, their costumes are all lovely, but wouldn't they all be better suited at a fantasy convention?

If you can accept Vikings, Captain Teague, who were admittedly 100 years too early, could steampunk, with roots arguably in the Victorian era, which started in 1837, not squeeze into Renfest too? Texas Renaissance Festival has a Roman weekend and a Barbarian weekend (which a lot of people translate to vikings) but these do fall outside the 1200-1700 time period we have established in this thread as acceptable periods to draw from.

I would absolutely love to attend a steampunk convention and gladly wear my outfit there. Trouble is, Kansas is not the best place for steampunks (who knew!). I have to drive 2 hours to the nearest renfest as it is, so for the time being, I take what I can get. While I can only speak for myself and my friends, we mean absolutely no disrespect to those who try hard to be period. Steampunk is just 1 of many outfits and personas I have and wear to faire. While I definitely understand why some people might not care for it at faires, it doesn't seem to be a terribly huge stretch of the imagination as to why people would wear steampunk things to a renaissance festival.
- Shanon (with just 1 N)

Home is where
the faire is

angusmacinnes

I treat all those characters like they are mundanes.  That way I dont have to waste my energy worrying about it.
There are many places where compromise is expected;
LOYALTY is not amongst them.

Captain Teague

Centaur.....as far as I know there is only the one. And again a mythical beast that many folk believed in drew illustrations of and told stories about during those times. Same as I already said, Fairies, gnomes, goblins, trolls, vampires,dragons, werewolves,witches etc etc etc. If there were 20 of them at any particular gathering then I would likely be put off by it, but still would never say anything to them in any form or deed. Remember they did "exist" if nothing else in the minds of the people during said time period.

And also like I said, naming cultures was just a spur of the moment thing. And with approximate dates, as I am certain Vikings did not just switch OFF at the turn of the century, more likely there were fringe bands that still raided well after the new century started. There are even a few Native American stories of them appearing in North America years after their decline. Again, they existed tangibly and again were drawn, discussed and stories told.

I state moreover that to me personally this is only a discussion and a no win scenario, nor a debate. And one I hope now is and will always be a friendly discussion. And I love discussions, if we were all of like minds on anything it would certainly get boring fast. :)

Personally I view the Roman weekends the same as time traveler weekends as out of place. And Rowan also brings up a valid point of it being incredibly confusing if they do not make it crystal clear when they go off track on themed weekends, granted that most mundanes never bother to check a schedule. If I was to bundle up the family as a regular customer for a historical learning experience of "lets all go to the RENAISSANCE faire," got there and it was Roman, Steampunk, Time Traveler, even Pirate....discouraged, disillusioned and angry would not even come close to how I felt.

But the way I feel about it is....Steampunk did not exist in those time periods. Not in the most fevered of imaginations. Barring some drawings from DaVinci, perhaps. Yes there were a few small gadgets but nothing popular or well used. A steam machine was actually designed in the first century, but nothing came of it. The most noted notions were not until the very late 1800's and Wiki claims the term came later still.
QuoteOrigin of the term

Although many works now considered seminal to the genre were published in the 1960s and 1970s, the term steampunk originated in the late 1980s as a tongue in cheek variant of cyberpunk. It seems to have been coined by science fiction author K. W. Jeter, who was trying to find a general term for works by Tim Powers (The Anubis Gates, 1983); James Blaylock ( Homunculus, 1986); and himself (Morlock Night, 1979, and Infernal Devices, 1987)—all of which took place in a 19th-century (usually Victorian) setting and imitated conventions of such actual Victorian speculative fiction as H. G. Wells' The Time Machine. In a letter to science fiction magazine Locus, printed in the April 1987 issue, Jeter wrote:
Dear Locus,

Enclosed is a copy of my 1979 novel Morlock Night; I'd appreciate your being so good as to route it Faren Miller, as it's a prime piece of evidence in the great debate as to who in "the Powers/Blaylock/Jeter fantasy triumvirate" was writing in the "gonzo-historical manner" first. Though of course, I did find her review in the March Locus to be quite flattering.
Personally, I think Victorian fantasies are going to be the next big thing, as long as we can come up with a fitting collective term for Powers, Blaylock and myself. Something based on the appropriate technology of the era; like "steampunks", perhaps...
—K.W. Jeter

All a moot point however like I said. Wear what you wish by all means. I wont stop anyone. I just personally feel it out of place, when Sci Fi gatherings have a reasonable explanation for anything at all that happens and of course, anything goes and I am sure that it is welcomed with open arms. If I see one Centaur or a fairy or a troll or a dragon and a child asks about that, I can easily explain they are portraying a mythical creature thought to exist in Ren Times. I can't imagine explaining steampunk to an 8 year old without having to drag utter reality into it while immersed in as complete of a fantasy setting as possible. And a handful of the few walking around are easily dismissed with an open mind. However, come the day I walk into a Ren Faire and see 50 out of place whatever cultures without it being a themed weekend and bad on me for not checking, well....I won't be returning to that particular faire.

But a question back....
Suppose you are attending a full blown Steampunk Faire. All steampunk booths, cast, shows, music, foods, etc etc etc...
And you see some Romans, Stormtroopers, Pirates, Ghostbusters, Trolls, Dragons,Fairies and Centaurs scattered all about. How would that make you feel?
Or would you quickly rationalize it being you have the steampunk notions of Sci Fi and its hundreds of possibilities?

Ren Faires do not get that luxury. ;)


But anyyyyway. Any of Ya see me at Any Faire come say hi. I do not truly care what you are wearing, you will get a hug, some good conversation and most likely an ale from me. ;D my feelings do not mean spit in the cosmic order of things and no one will care in a hundred years anyway. :P

The Code is the Law...

SirRichardBear

A little off topic but Japanese have been doing stories about steam powered robots and such since the mid 1980's and Vernes super submarine Nautilus was not only steam powered but the steam came from burning coal, I beleive the Albatross was also steam powered.  So while the term Steampunk is fairly new the general ideas for it have been around a long time.
Beware of him that is slow to anger: He is angry for something, and will not be pleased for nothing.
Benjamin Franklin

Captain Teague

I agree. Because as I said
QuoteThe most noted notions were not until the late 1800's
Vernes novel was published in 1870. Also A Journey to the Center of the Earth (1864), and Around the World in Eighty Days (1873). :)
The Code is the Law...

Rani Zemirah

Pretty sure I've seen this thread before... a couple of times.  ::)  :D
Rani - Fire Goddess

Aut disce... aut discede

DonaCatalina

Quote from: angusmacinnes on March 15, 2012, 05:31:41 PM
I treat all those characters like they are mundanes.  That way I dont have to waste my energy worrying about it.

I do like how you think.
Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit
Marquesa de Trives
Portrait Goddess

Merlin the Elder

Me too, Doña.  That Angus is one laid-back Scotsman.
Living life in the slow lane
ROoL #116; the Jack of Daniels; AARP #7; SS# 000-00-0013
I've upped my standards. Now, up yours.
...and may all your babies be born naked...

CecilyWilkins

I don't love it, but I don't hate it, either. I do agree with what some have said, that if Steampunks became an excessive presence it would be disappointing to me. As it stands now, though, I've personally never spotted more than 3-5 at one faire, so as long as the presence is negligible I don't mind in the least.

And honestly, I think I'd rather see a Steampunk costume than plain clothes (...says the mundane who has no garb of any kind).

batninja

I've never been a steampunk fan.  Although I can appreciate the thought and dedication that goes into an SP costume, I'm not particularly fond of costumes where a wearer just 'throws some gears' on an outfit and expects everyone to regard it as steampunk.  It was my understanding that the purpose of the design was that everything had a function.  Hot-glueing a brass gear to a top hat does not make you steampunk.

Having said that, I don't necessarily mind those folks at faire.  Unless I find their outfit pleasing to the eye (which means that thought and creativity were invested in the costume, get your minds out of the gutters), I tend to ignore them, as I would Imperial stormtroopers, Hogwarts residents, Batmen (or Jokers), Budweiser carton knights, and other hosts that, in MY mind, do not add to my experience at Festival.  I don't make any snide comments, I just pretend I don't see them, and go out of my way not to interact with them.  Lesson here: don't feed the trolls.  I always hope at some point in their future, they'll look back at pics of themselves, and go, "What the hell was I thinking, showing up to a Renaissance Festival as Master Chief?"

After all, it's a Renaissance Festival, not Halloween, unless it happens to fall on that particular weekend.  When it does, I concede to the 'anything goes' belief.

As most renaissance festivals go, many patrons (myself included, to a degree) aren't historically accurate as they don't understand the differences between Medieval/Renaissance/Elizabethan/Victorian time frames, hence the variety of period costumes.  I assume Steakpunk would fall in the Victorian era, and that's why we see more and more of that genre attending every year.
It ain't the years, it's the mileage.

Zardoz

#26
Well, I grok that this is a unpopular opinion with some folks here, but...

I like SP, at least I did when it was a sci-fi sub genre in the 80s. Now that it's a costuming fad I'm getting a little worn out on it. I got tired of seeing it at sci-fi cons a few years ago, when all the goth kids were starting to recycle their old vampire outfits with goggles, gears and nerf guns. Or worse folks doing the same to their renfaire getups.
As somebody who is far from a HA purist, I find seeing clone troopers, Doctor Who, Starfleet and SG1 away teams, etc. at faire pretty funny, but I don't feel the same about the SP crew. I guess I think there is enough sci-fi at faire already.
"Pants are for guys with ugly legs"
Member of Clan McLotofus,
IBRSC# 1619,
As seen in Renaissance Magazine

DonaCatalina

I fall somewhere close to batninja, it's not that I pretend not to see them, but unless their outfit is glaringly bad, my subconscious sees them pretty much as shrubbery.
People I know very well will confirm that if they come out in mundanes, it will take them 3-4 tries to get my attention. I just don't see the mundanes or the Halloween costumes.
Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit
Marquesa de Trives
Portrait Goddess

JCadden

Quote from: Captain Cornelius Howard Duckman on March 15, 2012, 04:38:10 AM
You know, the ones who toss on something stupid, like tin foil armor, and then decide they are in character and refuse to break it.
The people in the tin foil armor are a personal pet peeve of mine.
Jason Cadden
Renaissance Outfitters
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EmbyrretheFae


I'm biased on this subject, but when it comes to Faeries....

"Remember they did "exist" if nothing else in the minds of the people during said time period."

This quote from a previous poster sums it up for me ;)

E
"Because I can" ;)