Wearing green in the Renaissance

[DonaCatalina]

Since I am the proud new owner of a sage green velvet gown, I thought I'd take up the renfaire/SCA mythof the green dress.
According to wikipedia "At the time, the word "green" had sexual connotations, most notably in the phrase "a green gown", a reference to the way that grass stains might be seen on a woman's dress if she had engaged in sexual intercourse out-of-doors."

I can cite several noble women's gowns in portraits that were green. But I'd like to hear all of your thoughts on the matter and open it up for general discussion.

[isabelladangelo]

It's a Renn Myth.   Actually, it's a Victorian Myth that became a Renn Myth.   You might be familiar with the wedding dress color poem that starts with "Marry in Green, ashamed to be seen".  However, green in this context actually means Death.   Think of what "you look a little green" means and you can see the connection.  

The Late Victorians were obsessed with making EVERYTHING have meaning (*cough* Freud */end cough*), especially colors and flowers.   We don't really see the color meanings come into the pop culture stream until the 1910's/1920's or, basically, after WWI.   (So, post Victorian, Post-Edwardian) My guess is this is when we start to see green=grass stains come into play.  However, in period, if you could afford it, you wore it.   The only color I know of that is anyway shape or form associated with prostitution is yellow - and that's in Italy and also only certain items -typically some sort of saffron colored veil but even that wasn't fully enforced.  

EDIT:  Correct a couple of minor spelling issues.  :-)  Also, I found out there was a grass stains = stained reputation ; however, that wasn't printed until 1898 so that follows the above. 

[Amyj]

Whew!  Thank goodness!!!! 

[Alerrick Afon Adou]

Sounds Great. Lets see it DonaCatalina. I was thinken of an outfit in green also.................Huzzah

[Evie McCann]

Wow! I've always worn green to faire and had no idea that i was a garden utensil. Oh well, my new gown is still green. At least now I have and excuse to act unladylike. 

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

It never ceases to amaze me the knowledge that presents itself. Learning new things is neer ending.

[Elennare]

Hmm...those books Isabelle linked to say that green is a fairie color.  I knew there was a reason I liked it!

[iain robb]

Drat, there goes my plans to wear a saffron veil. And I thought it would look smashing with my kilt.

[DonaCatalina]

I love threads like this because you never know what information someone will have that you don't know about.

[CenturiesSewing]

From a wardrobe warrant from 1612. 

For making a Gowne of grasse greene satten tyssued wth golde & siluer in flowers wth tyssue sleuis Lyned & cutt wth taphata trymed wth golde & siluer lase for cutting it & for canuas &c for a Coller of white cloth of siluer lyned wth taphata & stiched wth silke...

For making a Gowne of Sea greene tyssued satten wth golde siluer & color silkes in borders & flowers betweene cutt & lyned wth taphata wth riche tyssued sleuis for cauas..

For makinge Two saufegardes thone greene satten tyssued wth golde silu9 & color silkes thother Murrey color satten tyssued wth golde siluer & greene silke boathe wth greate riche tyssue sleuis of ye spanishe facon & lyned wth taphata wth buttons & loupes with canuas...

For making a Petycoate of greene Satten enbr allou9 wth siluer frengid Lyned wth plush and buckeram to it...

[operafantomet]

In Italy green shades were fairly popular in the 16th century. Red and green were the colours of the Medici heraldry (which is the origin of the modern Italian flag), and their family members were often depicted in either green or red, or a combination. If art historians see these colours in a portrait along with a "pyramid shaped" diamond or several round metal beads ("palli") it's usually interpreted as a Medici member.

I had a blog entry with green dressed ladies last year, if you want a dash of inspiration:
http://operafantomet.livejournal.com/224209.html

[brooke]

Glad to hear I don't have to give up green in my wardrobe.... although I will giggle everytime I wear it now 

[DonaCatalina]

Show us some pics of all of you in green. 

[Cilean]

Many times these stores are told as fact and then they populate other places, so I think this is more Faire than SCA, but I have been told it is a fact.  I wore an over skirt in deep green at Faire while I was an interpreter for the Deaf, because I could sit in the grass and not have to worry about those stains!!!

Again we have to remember the terms and words for Green might have been different perhaps Green in was one sort but Watchet was another? Or Verdigris or any name?

[LadyFae]

My maternity Ren gown was green.  Oh dear, what some must have thought!  My current gown (as seen in my avitar pic) is yellow- with a green underskirt!  Apparently I'm on a roll for the "whore" colors, huh?  LOL!  Actually, no one has ever said anything to me about my color choices, though I do remember hearing, once long ago, that a certain SHADE of green was "earmarked" for the, uh, "friendly" gals...

[isabelladangelo]

My maternity Ren gown was green.  Oh dear, what some must have thought!  My current gown (as seen in my avitar pic) is yellow- with a green underskirt!  Apparently I'm on a roll for the "whore" colors, huh?  LOL!  Actually, no one has ever said anything to me about my color choices, though I do remember hearing, once long ago, that a certain SHADE of green was "earmarked" for the, uh, "friendly" gals...

Like I said, total myth.   If anyone is horrible enough to say anything to you, correct them and give them a good verbal assault.   

[Celtic Lady]

My wedding dress was green. I never heard any of these sayings about wearing green... until now. [/url]
P9260126 by miz_greeneyed_dragon, on Flickr][/img]

[operafantomet]

My maternity Ren gown was green.  Oh dear, what some must have thought!  My current gown (as seen in my avitar pic) is yellow- with a green underskirt!  Apparently I'm on a roll for the "whore" colors, huh?  LOL!  Actually, no one has ever said anything to me about my color choices, though I do remember hearing, once long ago, that a certain SHADE of green was "earmarked" for the, uh, "friendly" gals...

Like I said, total myth.   If anyone is horrible enough to say anything to you, correct them and give them a good verbal assault.   

Yeah, total myth. YELLOW had various undesirable connotations to the period eye, mainly because it was considered the colour of the jews, and because of this it was often used to mark various outcasts of society. Apart from jews, which many places had to wear a yellow hat or star (not a nazi invention) outside the ghetto, yellow items were often mandatory for prostitutes. Hence nobility would stay clear of the colour. Orange-yellow shades was popular, but pure, strong lemon yellow shades was not.

I have not heard of similar cases when it comes to the colour green. Closest I've found is that green was - and is  - a holy colour within Islam. It was much used by muslim soldiers in the middle ages, and the main colour of the Fatimide caliphate, and for this reason it was very little used in European heraldry (that is, coat-of-arms of finer families). But it became all the more popular in the 15th century, and it was frequent in the 16th and 17th century (this based on studies of how often green appears in known coat-of-arms). I assume this view was carried into the aesthetics of dressing, though I have no specific sources telling this was the case.

[DonaCatalina]

If you could find a copy, "Nurnberger Kunstbuch" would be a cool book to have. It is a medieval publication which lists many recipes for dyes of various colors used during the second half of the fifteenth century. Green is the color most frequently mentioned. It should be noted that it was used primarily by convents and monasteries. Green was and still is one of the most common liturgical colors for 'ordinary' days in the church's calendar.

[isabelladangelo]

http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/Elizabeth55.jpg  QEI wearing green.  :-)

[Merlin the Elder]

http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/Elizabeth55.jpg  QEI wearing green.  :-)

That hussy!   

[Elennare]

Green was and still is one of the most common liturgical colors for 'ordinary' days in the church's calendar.

If by "the church" you mean the Catholic Church, green is *the* liturgical color for the ordinary days.  Occasionally a different color will be used during Ordinary Time ("ordinary" as in ordinal, numbered, not "normal"), but that's due to celebrating a feast day or some other occasion.

To stay more on topic, here's a picture of me wearing green.  I somehow still don't have any pictures of my current garb, and no good ones of the previous iteration.  This was for a costume contest, but I think parts of it will show up at faire eventually.