confused on Margo Anderson slops pattern

[Ser Niall]

I'm attempting to make the paned slops (view B, medium length) in the Elizabethan Male Wardrobe pattern set.  As suggested, I made a muslin out of the inner lining pattern to check size and length.  However, I ran into a snag.  The instructions call for sewing 2A and 2B together at the side seam.  However, 2A is longer than 2B, and the seams don't match up at all.  2A looks like it "curves" out more than 2B, and won't line up correctly to stitch.  I know I cut them out correctly; I used size 44, which is the maximum size (outer lines) of the pattern.  I actually overlayed the tissue patterns and none of the sizes seem to match up (notches don't align, etc).

I'm a sewing newbie, so am I reading this pattern wrong?  Am I supposed to work the two pieces together so that they align correctly?  I ended up trimming down 2A and 2B so that the seam aligned, and finished the muslin that way, but that seems wrong to me.  Any help would be greatly appreciated because I want to get going on making the real deal this week.

I posted something to the Margo Anderson yahoo group, but so far no one has offered any assistance there 

thanks in advance!!

[Wickedvox]

Okay, I've never made that pattern, but I may be able to help. There are other people on here whom have made this pattern or similar and hopefully they will chime in. I too just signed up for Margo's group to ask a question, and nobody's been helpful yet If one piece curves, you usually have to manipulate the fabric to curve along the straight seam. Are there notches? If so try matching them up *first* then deal with what's left between them. That's my best advice. Good luck!

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

I had the same problem with the MArgo Anderson Men's Slops Pattern. I do not like that pattern as much as I do this one from Fantasy Fashions. http://www.patternsoftime.com/proddetail.asp?prod=FF04

This Slops pattern is much easier to make and the instructions are better detailed and explained.

Some Photo examples of Paned Slops using the Fantasy Fashions Pattern.





Paned Slops for my Husband and a Younger client 3 years ago..


The same goes for the Doublet Pattern from Fantasy Fashions. GOOD LUCK  to you!!!

[Ser Niall]

I do have the Fantasy Fashions slops and doublet patterns as well.  I bought them along with the MA patterns so I could decide which one I liked better.  I went with MA because of the hefty instruction manual and the sheer amount of variety it provided.  I could go and use the Fantasy Fasions ones if they are easier, I've just already done a lot of the prep work for MA (cut the patterns, bought fabric based on the yardages in the MA book, etc.)

As for the notches, they aren't even close to lining up.  If I align both patterns along the top waist, the notches in the side seams are a good 6 inches apart.

For being so highly regarded, I'm surprised I ran into this major of an issue so soon using MA.  Unless I"m just missing something entirely.

[Orphena]

I have that pattern as well, and keep putting off trying it.

Now, understanding that I have not looked at the pattern in about 2 years, these are my guesses.

1. Likely, due to it being a curved seam, as WickedVox suggests, there is probably a fair amount of "ease" that needs to be worked in. That means that one piece of fabric will be longer than the other. My way of working in ease: Pin your "notches" together - don't worry that they don't line up - ease is one of those tailoring tricks that takes a lot of practice. Once you have your notches pinned, start pinning the excess fabric in. I like to work in halfs - pin the half point of the "bubble" made from the longer piece of fabric to the middle of the shorter segment of fabric. Repeat until you have a pin every half inch (or more!) Pins are your friends and the only way to ensure that your fabric gets distributed evenly. When you sew (and I am assuming this is on a machine?) go very SLOWLY. You want to try to ensure that you don't get big, obvious bubbles in your seam. Sometimes it IS easier to do this by hand - there is more control, but it can be a dauntinf task!

2. If it does not work, simpler can be better. Take a different pattern and compare the two. Find the happy Medium. Do an extra mockup.

3. Try things on - multiple times. Do NOT assume it will fit, just because you are following an "expensive" pattern. You will ALWAYS have to adjust it!

4. Do not RUSH it. Take your time, stay patient, and DOCUMENT whatever you are changing. the more notes you scribble on the pattern, the eaiser it will be to make it next time!

Good luck! Would love to hear a running account of how it goes as m'lord keeps hinting he wants new slops!

[Rowan MacD]

  I have the Margo pattern too, but have not tried anything other than the venetian breeches in the mens' pants, which turned out OK.

   However, I went ahead and ordered the Patterns of Time (just a couple of minutes ago, in fact ) for hubby's paned slops, instead of using the MA I have.

  Note: I like MA patterns as a general rule.  They are wonderfully flexible as far as tweaking the fit and adding your own touches to a piece,  but there are a few errors in the basic patterns and instructions that she is still fixing, and frankly I am tired of having to email her for advice and confirmation of workarounds every time I use a clothing pattern I have not tried before (hats, pouches, and such are great to use). 

  I, also, am not a professional seamstress so it's more of a pain, since I am using her instructions step by step.   
   MA is not for beginners by a long stretch, but once you work through the krap, you get wonderful results.
   

[Ser Niall]

I bought the 1st edition patterns not even realizing that a 2nd edition exists, a lot of the mistakes are probably (hopefully) corrected there.  I'm probably going to just plow ahead and wing it if I run into any errors or confusion in the patterns.  Hopefully something sort of resembling slops comes out of the chaos.

[Rowan MacD]

I have that pattern as well, and keep putting off trying it.

Now, understanding that I have not looked at the pattern in about 2 years, these are my guesses.

1. Likely, due to it being a curved seam, as WickedVox suggests, there is probably a fair amount of "ease" that needs to be worked in. That means that one piece of fabric will be longer than the other.

I think I ran into this with the breeches.  I don't think MA bothered to even mention that you need to ease in places, much less where.   I did a lot of guessing from the pictures. 
   Things I learned:
   Pinning the 'pleats' as described by Orphena is best for the heavy fabrics, you can run a basting stitch inside the seam allowance gather the material on the thread with lighter stuff.   
   In both cases I ran a basting seam along the edge, inside of the seam allowance to hold the gathers in place while sewing the seams together.  If the stay stitches show, you can always pick them out later.
  The notches are non-negotiable; they must match up, but in between those, loosely and evenly gather the material to fit.   Practice on a mock up!

[LordPaulet]

OK I HAVE these patterns ANNNND I have used them! 
As everyone has said try to ease by pinning the notches first. 
Second ensure you cut the right length on both patterns...(I have done this before cut one as a medium and the other as the long)

I remember when I built these with version 1 I just chopped the excess off the top lol (grading so I chopped the excess of the side and then angled to I took nothing towards the front or back)
BIG REMINDER....make sure you check your crotch measurement....With Margos patterns I have always had to extend the top of my slops by 3 inches give or take on EVERY person I have made costumes for!
the reason this ease is built in is to give the ballooning of the shape (I personally prefer pear shaped pants...So I do straight side seams and make a more rounded extended bottom that gets darted in to make the pear shape)
The way I get around this is I usually build using an alteration of this and tudor tailor patterns. Combining the two where needed to get the shapes I want or need

Im sorry this is kind of garbled...IM a bit frazzled at the moment...if you PM me I might be able to help a bit more

[Ser Niall]

So, a picture is worth a thousand words.  Just to make sure I'm being clear, here are some pictures of the patterns.  I transferred them onto my own tissue paper, so these are my copies.  I know the size is correct, they're size 44 which is the maximum the pattern makes, so I just traced the outside on each one.

These pictures show that the notches along the side seam clearly don't line up properly, not even in the ballpark.  Am I still supposed to line these points up and ease in the fabric?




These show what happens when I line up 2A and 2B along he seam.  The top part of the pattern (the waist) is all lined up.  The seams match until the notches, and then 2A takes a different curve in than 2B, and it's also longer.

[Orphena]

Looking atyour pictures, it looks like you have notches that should not go together, as one of them is a double notch, and one a single. Generally, double notches get lined up with double ones, and singles with singles. I cannot tell from the picture, but do you have a corresponding double notch on the other side (edge) or the pattern?

Looking at the pattern, I would ignore the notches and line things up as best as you can. DO a mockup, and you will be able to test the fit - if it feels right, and it looks right, (and you can sit, stand, dance, etc) without them riding up uncomfortably, I would say you are good to go. Bea re bel, ignore the instructions (or notches) and call it done!

I would NOT attempt to make those notches line up. Remember that clothing is also about tailoring- patterns are a convenience that started in the Victorian Era! There is no ONE right way to make garb - a pattern is not something you MUST follow to the letter! Think of it as a guideline, and call your adaptation artistic license. So long as your slops look good, no one is going to notice if you didnt line up your notches!

[Ser Niall]

No, there are no double notches on the other side.   I think I solved the mystery though:  It is a typo on the pattern.  I dug out 2A and 2B for the 45-56 sizes, and the lengths of the seam match, as well as the single notches.  It also doesn't have the issue where the seams follow a different curve on 2A than 2B.  Doesn't bode well that I get tripped up by a typo the first time I try this, but I will press on.  I'm surprised there isn't more discussion about this on the yahoo group, I guess everyone else just wings  

The muslin is completed; I'm going to take the advice given here and lengthen the crotch a bit, as well as go down a size in the waist.  I measured my natural waistline as just under 44 inches, but the size 44 pattern seems to be too loose.

Looking atyour pictures, it looks like you have notches that should not go together, as one of them is a double notch, and one a single. Generally, double notches get lined up with double ones, and singles with singles. I cannot tell from the picture, but do you have a corresponding double notch on the other side (edge) or the pattern?

Looking at the pattern, I would ignore the notches and line things up as best as you can. DO a mockup, and you will be able to test the fit - if it feels right, and it looks right, (and you can sit, stand, dance, etc) without them riding up uncomfortably, I would say you are good to go. Bea re bel, ignore the instructions (or notches) and call it done!

I would NOT attempt to make those notches line up. Remember that clothing is also about tailoring- patterns are a convenience that started in the Victorian Era! There is no ONE right way to make garb - a pattern is not something you MUST follow to the letter! Think of it as a guideline, and call your adaptation artistic license. So long as your slops look good, no one is going to notice if you didnt line up your notches!

[DonaCatalina]

"The muslin is completed; I'm going to take the advice given here and lengthen the crotch a bit, as well as go down a size in the waist."
Before you cut too much out of the waist, double check the measurements. You want the lining inside the panes to be somewhat 'poofy'. One early pair I made, I cut the waist down to match the waist with the outer panes and my lining ended up being nearly skin tight. I also found that sometimes adding width to the crotch works better than adding length, especially for men with muscled legs.
This would mean a wider flare and a sharper angle. But definitely try the muslim with hosen and see how it works sitting on very low seats. That will show you where the 'pull' is.

[Ser Niall]

Dona, good advice.  I'm home all day today so I'll wear them around the house (the family will love that    ) and see how they feel walking around, sitting, etc.

[LordPaulet]

Glad you figured it out! 
Also just a bit of advice...if you plan on pointing these to your doublet (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED at least two points in the front under the tabs)
DO NOT POINT THE BACK...at all...ever....you will end up with an atomic wedgie or some very ripped pants   Experience speaks here

[gem]

Looking at your picture (notches aside), that is NOT an extreme amount of length difference for a curved seam. Here is an example of another pattern with curved seams (a princess-seam bodice for something). You can see those extreme curves, and it's easy to think that they will NEVER line up. But it's sewing those odd, "mismatched" layers together that turns two flat pieces of fabric into something with some built-in shape and curve--which you want in a pair of slops, as Dona and others explained

[Cilean]

Sir Niall,

I would suggest, I have made those pannions however, so long ago I don't remember what I did, but join the Yahoo Group for Margo's Patterns, dozens of people have made them there and there are like 500 people there so perhaps? You might want to ask there and if Margo does not chime in then the others will give you a lot of help!!!


Cilean