Enough is Enough

[The Rabbi]

Right or wrong I for one think it is time for outside intervention in regards to shall we say TRF Troubles.  There have been several issues such as preferred parking, scout camping and shock jock promotions. TRF has a very loyal customer base; so be it at time a very vocal one at times. This forum is a great place to gather information and voice concerns. I can respect the opinions of all involved but there is a point where you lose sight of the purpose and intent allowing exchanges to digress. Folks it is time for a different tactic as TRF has begun to monopolize the forum for all the wrong reasons. We do not all attend TRF and there are other fairs out there that deserve forum time as well.  To the Loyal fan/customer base of TRF let management know the issues you have create a petition numbers equal strength. Be quick to point out the good and the bad as it is apparent that there is both. Management no matter how personal it seems do not take it that way as management you do not have that luxury instead listen to the passion for TRF that it represents. Please enough is enough let's get other topics going again other than the troubles of TRF.   

[LadyJessica]

I agree with the above statement.

[PollyPoPo]

I am waiting to read what others think about this.

[Chris B]

From my stand point, it is water under the bridge...

[Breandan]

I think part of the problem is that RF has become the last resort for public discourse on these matters for many people. I hear from a LOT of people- and have experienced this personally- that their complaints or criticisms (and we're talking valid ones voiced in a civil manner, not frothing troll-flames) made on the FB page are promptly deleted (and Cory has even admitted to doing so in a memo posted at the EB), and emails/PMs ignored. The former I can speak to from firsthand experience, however I have found that Terre is responsive to emails and PMs more often than not. So, to a lot of us this is a place where a lot of rennies and TRF management go that isn't controlled by TRF, allowing us to voice concerns without censorship in the hopes that they be addressed. Another factor is that many of us- myself included- believe that you voice criticisms in the same place you voice praise, and while people keep forgetting the good things I and others have said about TRF, we HAVE said them.

That being said, I try my damnedest to keep it as civil as possible- may not always succeed, but I try- and would ask that anyone else do the same. If I cross the line from civility, call me on that rather than condemning me for voicing a concern in the first place. I do not believe that people should be censored from voicing concerns or complaints, however I DO believe there is a right and wrong way to do so, and to respond to them. For example- once Terre addressed the issues presented, I thanked him, and we both agreed to disagree on some points, met common ground on others, and moved on. This is how it SHOULD happen. The subsequent inflammation of the matter by others is an example of how NOT to do it, IMHO. I think we can have a comprehensive discourse on this forum- including complaints and concerns being voiced by customers- that is constructive, IF it is handled in the appropriate manner.

[The Rabbi]

I agree that Rf is a great place to voice ones opinion both good and bad and I truly respect this fact. There is nothing better than to see positive feedback on any given fair or to see a problem arise and to be resolved. While i may never have the oppurtunity to attend TRF I will never hesitate to say that if nothing else any fair should be greatful to have a customer base as loyal and passionate as those of TRF. And rest assured Breandan if at any time I feel the need to take issue with you I will send a pm and hope that you would afford me the same respect.I too have a tendancy to voice my opinion as you may have noticed by this thread and was not attempting to attack or offend anyone just felt that it was time to try a different approach as the current method was rapidly digressing.

[Merlin the Elder]

For better or worse, a place to show the warts with the beauty is necessary. I don't know how long it will last here, because there sometimes is the tendency to keep things in a Disney atmosphere of all good, no bad. Hells bells, reality needs a chance!

No faire is perfect. I've been to TRF years ago, but it's been SO long, I couldn't tell you much of anything other than it's BIG! ...and I thought that 23 years ago when I last attended.  If anyone is looking for perfection, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but it isn't to be found.  You'll just have to find the faire that works for you.  Breandan has fondness for TRF, but (rightfully, IMHO...as an outsider) finds some faults. He even dislikes Scarby, which I love. But, folks, we're all different. We expect different things. If we all wanted the same things, demanded the same things, and found the same things, the world would suck, pure and simple. We would be bored shiteless.

Rabbi, I hear ya.  The negative vibes are disconcerting, BUT if there is no forum (no pun), there is no course correction.  Things would fester and rot.  A good example of the opposite: Sherwood has been amazing with its adjustments based on comments here...on R/F! In our own little way, we've helped Sherwood become the talk of the country. It's a faire with extraordinary heart and fortitude.

Lots of folks have left these pages because of the sometimes heavy-handedness of the moderators, but if this "life-style," if you want to call it that, is to continue, we're going to have to let people speak freely. We shoot ourselves in the foot if we don't. Are you listening, moderators?

[Merlin]

Very well put father....

Definition of a forum:"A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas"

[Zardoz]

  I had to leave for work right after I figured out who the guy that works for TRF was that got on here and started calling me out was, so I missed that excitement, but I thought about this stuff a lot today.  

The main thing I thought about was that the level of discourse in this country has really gone to pot, whether it's Facebook or a political debate, almost any disagreement quickly turns into name calling and personal attacks. I blame the increasing use of texting, the internet, Forums, social media, etc.. As great as it is to be able to commune with like minded people from all over, the anonymity and geographic separation of the folks in interweb land often leads to some saying things there that they would not say face to face.

I agree that forums should be about open discussions of ideas, I also think they should be civil. I'm an easy going guy, I really cannot think of anyone in the faire world that I dislike. I have my moments, but I hope there are not too many folks out there that dislike me. Am I and all of you going to agree 100% on everything? No, but I temper that with the knowledge that we all can agree that we love faire.

And I don't dislike TRF, I do not always agree with everything that goes on there, but I like the faire. Any critical remark I make is born out of this love of faire, if I think something might diminish TRF, like the time share deal, in they eyes of other patrons I feel like saying something. I likely don't always say it the best way, but it's at least from the heart. I think Breanden and Chris B. have similar feelings, but they have both been much more involved with the faire than me, having worked there etc..I'm just a guy in a kilt that shows up and wanders around, bugging the young folks.

In retrospect, maybe just an email, phone call, or heavens forbid a 'hard letter', to the faire management would be better than airing things out in a public forum, for the very reason of not broadcasting the issues to folks that might be considering their first visit or something. In that light, I cannot really blame TRF's minions for deleting negative stuff off their Facebook page, I certainly do it on mine. For TRF as a business it's image control, I get that. However it's not cool to have folks come on FB or this forum for no other reason than to just shout down the critiques.

So, I guess for better or worse my issues have been aired, and I see no point in beating on them any more. Hopefully the powers that be will take the info in the spirit it was given, and do with it as they will, for the good of the faire.

[Sir Martin]

Merlin(s) - I'm not sure who has left over a moderator being heavy-handed, but if anyone has an issue with me they are welcome to contact me by PM and I will address their concerns.  Like Zardoz, I can't think of anyone in the faire world who I dislike and I hope I always come across as friendly and approachable whenever our paths cross.

All - the R/F site owner entrusts those of us who volunteer to see that the forums are moderated fairly.  The written rules cannot possible cover all potential causes of conflict.  I like to think that the TRF section of R/F is a fun place to discuss one of the world's greatest venues for escapism.  Spaming, cursing, posting links to porn, and threatening or defaming others are definite no-no's.  There are others, but most of us are old and wise enough to know what the limits of propriety are. 

Our love for TRF brings out the passion in many of us, but we all have to keep a civil tone in the conversational discourse on these forums.  We have performers and vendors who share their insights with us, and we are fortunate that Terre stops in to address our concerns.  Having input from TRF management is a great thing ... not every faire has a GM that interacts with patrons in this manner.  We may not always agree with TRF's policies, but he is taking his time to provide info on some of the topics on which we have inquired.  He also responds to email through a link on the TRF web site.  As others have mentioned ... lets keep the discussions respectful.

[Merlin the Elder]

Was not implicating you, Sir Martin.  For the most part, the TRF forums are the most tolerant of any regarding the reasonable discourse.  This thread in some areas would have already been jerked.

Zardoz, you have nailed it. The anonymity of Internet makes it way too easy to be uncivil. But, conflict isn't necessarily bad, if the discussions are kept within reasonable bounds. Conflict can lead to positive change when channeled properly. It can lead to destruction otherwise.

One thing I disagree with you on, Sir Martin. I DO believe this is a place to talk about issues, however, it was the decision of the owners of this site to keep the forums public. I feel THAT is the mistake. True, we should not do laundry in public, but that can be handled with a push of the owner/operator's button. We NEED a more private place to talk.

But everyone must keep in mind, the faires are not operated only for our benefit, though I know we love to claim them as our very own. We become protective...maybe too much so.