Chainmaille Show

[PollyPoPo]

Sounds like Laird Fraser might have been to Sound and Fury, eh?

[maeven]

I've kinda kept to myself since the news broke yesterday. I was actually supposed to be there yesterday, but we decided to stay home and take care of some things there. I've been asked by a few people how I feel about this, and I'm going to pretty much say it like this:

Growing up, I didn't have the best confidence out there. I still don't, really. For the majority of the year, in faire's off-seasons, my confidence is a little "meh".

Lord Randolph changed that for me. His work has given me a confidence that I thought I never had or heck, never see in my entire life. He knows this because I make sure to thank him after each time he dresses me and I thanked him for helping me find that spark in me that I didn't know I had.

When I started doing chainmaille as a volunteer at the end of the 2010 season, I knew this was something that was bigger than I was. It brought something out in me that not only I saw, but my husband saw as well. That something was, I guess, confidence. (Not having much of it, it's hard to tell what it looks like sometimes). I was hooked. When I went back for the 2011 season, I went to Chainmaille Fashions the minute I walked into the gates and bought my first chainmaille pieces. I put them on and wore them in the parade as well as did the fashion show. I participated last season when I was able to and I participated this season when I was able to.

A lot of people here have seen me wear my chainmaille. Yeah, there are some times when my cleavage is a little out there. I try to keep it under wraps, really.

I know I do not have a body like the other more attractive chainmaille girls out there. I also know that I'm not physically able to pull off some of their looks-they look awesome in a lot of their stuff

To those who do have it; kudos. Right on. It's your choice how you wear it.

Even though I have been covered, for the most part, while wearing my chainmaille, I know I am still out there and yeah, people-men and women-have given me glances. Most of the time, it's positive. Just recently, I've received some negative feedback about my chainmaille (from mundanes-not rennies); telling me that "it should be a crime against nature" for me to wear chainmaille. Another person told me that I need to "walk the parade route a few times" before I wear chainmaille. Another person started to "MOO" while they were walking behind me (and no, they were not mistaking me for a member of Clan Moo! lol... ) Talk about "ouch".

I even bought my daughter a chainmaille headpiece. She has worn it each time we've taken her to faire this season. She did her first fashion show, with me carrying her in a baby sling, on Opening Day.

I understand people's concerns. There is a warning before the second part of the show starts. It's out there on a big blue banner. But at the same time (and I know a few of us here have used this phrase) "If you don't like what you see, you can look away". I know it sounds harsh and blunt, but it's something that has been heard many times around faires.

I really do hope that everyone can come to a happy medium and compromise. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way and has been impacted positively by Chainmaille Fashions. Here's to hoping things get settled peacefully and professionally.

[LibraryPrincess]

Here is the difference... The Brazilian dancers are not out in the open in the middle of a major thoroughfaire. They're tucked away in an alcove and not all out for the public to stumble upon. You want a chainmaille show? Cool. Awesome. Move it to a stage or a more private venue like they do with ALL THE OTHER more adult shows and spectacles.

I am of the opinion that this show has no business being on the mainlanes of the festival. I've always felt that way. No offense to ANY of the performers there and definitely no judging on the nature of what they choose to do with their bodies. I just believe that it is an adult show and needs to be treated as such.

There is a warning before every show, people should get the idea.

I'm not happy about this, Lord Randolph is an amazing man and the chainmaille show is definitely a piece of the heart and soul of the faire. I really hope that management reconsiders their decision.

There might be a warning before the show, but first-timers casually walking from the Globe to The Dove Meadow stage don't get much of a warning if they happen to walk by at the wrong time. I tend to tell my friends who are attending for the first time just to avoid the area altogether, and to walk away from the parade after the courts have gone by and the advertisment banners start.

I agree; if you're going to keep it, tuck it away somewhere.

[xed]

bad form, TRF.
bad form.

[Breandan]

Alas, twould that it were so easy to dismiss the comparison between the Carnivale dancers and chainmail folks, but the Carnivale dancers ARE on display, regularly, both at parade and in front of the place throughout the day. This could have EASILY been handled by a simple "make sure your people cover naughty bits" discussion with Randolph, and it would have avoided turning into the fracas it is rapidly evolving into. Poor handling of the issue- bungling, in my personal opinion- has led to a LOT of bad blood that need not have been created. I am all for making sure the dancers are covered to beach bikini standards (and I have never seen any up there that weren't, so if it HAS been a problem, it must not be a common one) to preserve the sensibilities of families with kids, but there's a smart way to handle this sort of thing- quietly, with minimal fuss, and preferably between shows- that wasn't followed here.

[Blue66669]

Here is the difference... The Brazilian dancers are not out in the open in the middle of a major thoroughfaire. They're tucked away in an alcove and not all out for the public to stumble upon. You want a chainmaille show? Cool. Awesome. Move it to a stage or a more private venue like they do with ALL THE OTHER more adult shows and spectacles.

I am of the opinion that this show has no business being on the mainlanes of the festival. I've always felt that way. No offense to ANY of the performers there and definitely no judging on the nature of what they choose to do with their bodies. I just believe that it is an adult show and needs to be treated as such.

There is a warning before every show, people should get the idea.

I'm not happy about this, Lord Randolph is an amazing man and the chainmaille show is definitely a piece of the heart and soul of the faire. I really hope that management reconsiders their decision.

There might be a warning before the show, but first-timers casually walking from the Globe to The Dove Meadow stage don't get much of a warning if they happen to walk by at the wrong time. I tend to tell my friends who are attending for the first time just to avoid the area altogether, and to walk away from the parade after the courts have gone by and the advertisment banners start.

I agree; if you're going to keep it, tuck it away somewhere.

Nicole, thanks for getting what I'm saying. While you may warn people at the beginning of a show, this is NOT a stage. It's a storefront on THE major lane at TRF. A family that is casually strolling through will get absolutely blindsided because, while a warning was issued at the BEGINNING of the show, it's not like someone is standing on the edges warning people that they may see something not fit for children as they wander through.

Seriously, keep the show. I understand how important it is to many people and how they feel about TRF. Host it in a courtyard, or a stage where people don't get an accidental eye-full of gyrating and backsides. All of the other adult shows are tucked, this should be no different.

To be fair, I don't believe that the Brazilian dancers have any right to sit in front of their shop with their backsides hanging out either. Their show is inside the restaurant. Let them keep it there and not in parade/in public.

[PollyPoPo]

Curious, just a question after reading these comments and what is on TRF Facebook. 

Are the models all volunteers, non-professionals, non-performers? 

[Bonny Pearl]

Polly I believe they are all volunteers.

[SirRichardBear]

In the ten years I've gone to TRF I've never seen anything at the Chainmaille show that I would object to any of my family seeing include young children.    There are shows I wouldn't want to take children to because of the language used but nothing at the Chainmaille show.   Then to be honest I've never understood Ameircan's unhealthy obsession with skin.

[Blue66669]

I have. I've seen some performances that were like minimally clothed strip shows. I wouldn't want my kids to see some of it.

Understand that I'm not making a blanket statement about ALL of the performers. However, because these are volunteers and non-trained or contracted festival workers, there's no telling what some people will do when they're thrust into the spotlight in a metal bikini. Honestly, if the show wanted to revamp and make rules to styles of dance and what is to be worn with their chain, that would also be another compromise. Even strip clubs here have rules against showing too much... jussayin.

[Laird Fraser of Lovatt]

This conversation is the same one from 4 years ago when someones kid walked up on a flogging in camp...


But i seem to remember someone arguing that "It's faire... what do you expect?" An old timer had to be reminded that it was part of the reason he was there to begin with... ( Cough...Rapier...cough, cough)


Funny how now someone is trying the right shoe on the left foot.... Sucks growing up and getting old & stuffy.

IMO... no offense is intended.  TRF has been around for 39 years now... 2-3 generations have been coming through its hallowed gates to "lift up their cares" and "naughty" things have been known to happen at faire.  Why do you think most people come and come back for?  It's not for the Rennie Walmart, for sure.... or the cheap beer prices.

*The more the mischef, the better the sport*

[maeven]

I do feel that I need to clarify parts of the post that I made earlier. I was at work typing it, so I didn't get a chance to really look through it (work productivity at its finest!)

The traffic that the chainmaille show causes, yeah, it's a little wacky. Maybe that is something the powers that be can talk about when thy have a sit-down about next season.

As for children being a part of the show: in the times that I have done the fashion show, I have seen children go out first or they go out with their chaperone/parent/whoever is taking them.

I'm usually one of the first ones that come out in the fashion show because if you're dressed head to toe, you're first in line-it goes from most to least in terms of clothing. When the more clothed ones are done going across the balcony, the PG banner comes down. You guys are right when it comes to things you don't want your kids seeing. There are things I wouldn't want my child seeing as well. She's too young right now to really be "corrupted" at faire or anything like that, but even so. My daughter has never been exposed to any form of nudity when we were in the chainmaille show, or even when the chainmaille show participants came to see her/play with her/fawn over her. (LOL)

I think this might be one of those things where we might need to just kinda hang out until a final decision is made-when a lot of theories come in, conclusions tend to be jumped to. I hope that makes sense! lol...

[FaeHollow]

I agree with what a few have said... a warning does no good for those that stumble across the show... and have to wiggle in between people and booths to get through the traffic jam... all the while their kids may be seeing something they don't want them to see. I'm of the mind that "you bring your kids out to a ren faire... you get what you get" but I know that as they push to increase numbers the FAMILY thing is going to rise. My biggest problem aside from just not liking the look of some of the girls, but I have always admired their unwavering confidence, is the traffic jam. On a 40,000 plus day, you can barely squeeze through.... I don't even want to talk about this weekend... esp sunday! As someone who HAD to get from the front to the German area after noon proc. I DESPISED the show because I always got stuck in the traffic and had a hard time getting around. I'd like to see the show stay because people do love it, but I'd like to see it not take up so much room in the lane.

[PollyPoPo]

The idea of traffic jam brings another question to mind about the chainmail show.  How does it affect surrounding shoppes?

[Zardoz]

Yeah, here's the Carnivale dancers carefully tucked away in their ever so period correct resturant;

When the are not performing they are often out front drumming up the punters. I saw this basically every day I was at faire this year, but seemingly missed all the Chainmail shows.
So I'm pretty sure the casual passerby is actually more likely to see some South American badonkadonk than chicks in chainmail, who might not any more HA, but are at least 'traditional' to TRF.