Bodice pattern drafting

[Orphena]

Thanks for your feedback, Centuries!

Ok, here is draft #2. I put in place the changes you recommended, as well as reducing the front point down. I did not quite understand what you meant about "add about an inch to an inch and a half + seam allowances to the top of the shoulder straps and blend it down into the armscye. If you lift your arm up, where your arm and shoulder meet and crease should be where the outer edge of your shoulder strap hits when your arm is down"... so if you could elaborate, I would appreciate it! I do feel that the shoulder strap may be alittle wide across the shoulder - if I remove some fabric, I would take it from the shoulder side, not the neck side - I'm thinking perhaps 3/4 of an inch?

I did not add any seam allowance anywhere except at the sides and shoulder - I was planning on doing that at the final draft. Imade sure to cut the front along the selvedge, but I still had difficulties getting it pinned nicely in the CF. Hopefully with a few layers, and my slightly thicker gown fabric, it will be a bit more cooperative.

There are 2 sets of pictures - the first is un altered, the second set is after I had m'lord add a few pins - but as he doesn't sew, it was a little bit of a challenge. ONLY ONE SIDE IS PINNED. No skirt this morning.... it was too early - I guess you all now will see my fabulous jammies - which I assure you are not riding low - my corset gives me some definite creases down my back!

I really appreciate your help - my mom sews, but she's a good hour away, and oddly, this is a faster way to fit!



















And now for those that show the pinned / altered version

[CenturiesSewing]

Orphena, hopefully these will make sense, (very tired right now). I'll take some photos later today to try to explain the shoulder point/armscye placement. But looking at the second mock up photos your armscye area has lots of fabric in it, so you won't need that adjustment.







Snip in around the back of the armscye as well where it is folding.

You back panel is still a bit bubbled, but by how much seems to vary on how you are standing. In one photo you have your hands on your hips, in another you look like you are standing straight. So it is hard for me to read the wrinkles. So it will take some tinkering with.  The back of the bodice waist line is now pretty much hitting where your natural waist is so that is good. You might try putting the back darts back in to temporarily smooth things out.

[CenturiesSewing]

Here are a few photos from my kirtle tutorial (that is still wip) but it might help m'lord understand what the mock up needs to look similar to.

My mock up has 5/8th seam allowances included, which have not been trimmed into so there is a bit of wrinkling.

[Orphena]

Draft three is drawn up, but I'm not wriggling into my corset alone (there is always a moment of panic when it is on its way over my shoulders, and still covering my face...what if I get stuck like this!?!).

Assuming I get this one to fit without major wrinkling, all I would need to do is add seam allowance, and off I go, yes?

Lining, yes. Outer fabric, ready to go. Should I do a layer of something extra for structure?  I think I will plan on a length of boning down the centre front to stabilize...

Pictures tonight when m'lord returns. In the mean time, I'm working on accessories and the like!

Get some rest, tired lady!

[CenturiesSewing]

You should be good to go once the fitting tweaks are done, if you are doing sew in sleeves I'd baste them in to test fit now.

I'd add a layer of canvas or duck cloth to you bodice, the corset is doing the reshaping but that extra layer will help smooth things out and you can attach boning cases to it.

[Orphena]

Mockup #3. I think this is the most mockups I've done, and I'm not sure we're there yet!

I tried to take a shot of each view with my hands at my sides, and then my hands on my hips. For the side shots, there is one with my arms up as well.

I managed to get a hook on my skirt, so one more bar, and it is done, except for the special decoration pieces that I am waiting on the mail for...
























This one is to illustrate the bump created by my skirt waistband - I am hoping the canvas, lining, and boning in the front edge help sort it out!



Thanks CS!I owe you a nice beverage if I ever get out to your home faire! (Which one is that?)

[CenturiesSewing]

I think we are very close! 

You need to trim down just tiny bit more at the under arm, and along the back of the arm, you still getting a few folds in the fabric where the fabric is binding when your arms are down. Just do half inch snips into where it is folding and that should take care of it. The third photo with your hands on your hips, bothers me in the armhole area, is that excess fabric that is loose and sticking out? if you pin it into a small dart how does it feel?

The back fold, I just realized that is about where the top of your corset ends? A higher backed set of stays would help with that but I know that is outside the scope of your current project. So I'm going to suggest running some boning along the back in a fan shape.

Did you adjust both shoulder straps? Or it might just be one came unpinned in the photos.

The waistband bump, I would move where the waist starts to drop down forward a little.

If you decide on doing one more mock up, I'd do it in a heavier fabric like duck cloth just to get an idea of how the final product will fit.

Thanks for the drink offer! I'm all the way down in Tampa, FL so that may not be possible short of teleportation.

[gem]

Huzzah, O! Looking great! (Your wig came out fabulous, as well!)

If you decide on doing one more mock up, I'd do it in a heavier fabric like duck cloth just to get an idea of how the final product will fit.

I totally second this. I think some of those tiny wrinkles will smooth out in a heavier fabric.

Only THREE mockups? Sheesh. I should be so lucky! LOL

[Orphena]

So, I was doing some searching through the forums before I attempt mockup # 4 in a heavier fabric, and came across a number of posts that suggest a curved front. Now, I am disinclined to fiddle with the pattern too much more, but it was a pain to get that front edge pinned closed - so much so that I was considering basting the front edge closed on tomorrow's mockup. What do you think - should I bother?            (Yes I know, I'm overthinking again! )

I also found a link from a forum member (sorry I don't recall who!) who pointed to this well done demo of draping the pattern - but it requires 2 people - the model and someone who sews. It is an alternate way than Centuries suggested, not including darts, but I thought I would include it here as well - http://www.mathildegirlgenius.com/DressFitting/DressDemo.htm

Centuries was kind enough to let me know that she might not be available for a quick answer for a little while, so I'm hoping some you quieter people peeking at this thread will chime in!

[gem]

I lovelovelovelovelove my curved front gown (which I draped on myself!), and it should *absolutely* be on your to-do list someday... but not for Queen Elizabeth. The point of the curved front opening or seam is to, well, curve. It hugs you snugly beneath the bust and gently lifts the bust into a lovely soft rounded shape. See my dress diary for comparison photos.

For Elizabethan bodices, you want a cone--as flat from the bust point to the waist as your boning can make you. Your stays will do the majority of the shaping; you just need your bodice to echo that basic silhouette.

At this point, because you're SO CLOSE, I would lay your bodice muslin on top of your stays and compare the shapes. You might get a different view of how to pinch/draft out the little darts & tucks you've been taking during the fitting process. (I have to admit that I am a total dart renegade; I pin them out in fitting, and then just act as if they don't exist when I transfer the pinned muslin to the new pattern. It can alter the shape of parts of the flat pattern--frex, pinning out a dart in the armscye will give it an L shape--but it's not noticeable in the finished bodice. HOWEVER, you need sleeves, so you don't want to fiddle too much with your armscye if you're going to set them in.)

Oh, to answer your first question: When I move from muslin to canvas for fitting my bodices, I replace the pins with lacing. You can do temporary lacing strips or quick eyelets (ie, poke holes with your awl you can lace through)--or just sew yourself into it with a big tapestry needle and some heavy string. (It looks like I actually did machine-sewn eyelets on one of mine--how ambitious I was! LOL)

Is your gown going to open in the front or the back? If it's not going to lace up the front (like your mockup), I would make that adjustment in a mockup ASAP, because for some totally inexplicable reason, moving the opening can totally throw off the fit. My pink stays fit me well, but when I used that same pattern to draft a side-back lacing kirtle, the bodice was suddenly HUGE on me! I ended up chopping off like 2" per side to get it to fit again.

Good luck! It's fun watching this project come together. (Says the Queen of Mockup Fatigue! LOL)

[Orphena]

Thank you Gem!

Yes, I figured the answer would be "no" but I had to double check. I'm actually glad the answer is no!

My corset does not have straps, so I cannot see it being too helpful for the arm hole - but it may help with the side seam a little. I am really hoping the thicker fabric will help.

For sleeves - my plan is to make paned shoulder "caps" that cover about as much arm as a t-shirt sleeve, with straight sleeves under them that attach to the gown via the button and hair elastic method that I am keen to try out. I am planning the anchor points (the buttons) to be hidden inside the shoulder caps, but actually on the gown.

I am aiming for an earlier elizabethan feel, as I prefer the look, and I can get away with portraying an age of 30ish character, and not have to deal with the wheel farthingale either. Although I like the huge mutton sleeves, I'm not quite ready to go there for this year!

And yes, the bodice will close in the front - but likely with hook and eyes, rather than lacing. I find when I am dressing, my current bodice is such a pain to lace up, and if my corset isn't tight enough, I need to take an awful lot of layers off to fix it all!

[Kate XXXXXX]

On the stays: yes, I'd say higher all round is the way to go.  It should come across the back at least as high as your armpit, and duck under the arm...  And then come up again over the bust.  Only Victorian corsets are that low.  And add a little more in the front width at bust level so there's no overspill there.  The busk up the CF should give you that straight line up the front.  But the bust has to go somewhere, and if you don't accommodate it, you get spillage!     Remember that the aim of the stays is to shape, not to reduce!

Once you have that smooth cone effect, it'll be MUCH easier to get the bodice smooth.

It's all looking pretty good so far.   

[Orphena]

Well, here is what I've been working on...  a few notes before the pictures -Yes, it WILL close -I just don't have the hooks on yet. The shoulder seam is also not sewn as of yet.  There is a layer of cotton canvas, with boning along the back and the center front, and the lining, and the gown fabric.

My biggest concern is just how tight it is under the arms - do you think lowering that by an inch will affect the smoothness of the bodice?

I am very pleased with how smooth it is - and that the back meets the skirts so nicely!

Trim will be done by hand, but may consist of pearls etc rather than a lot of sewn on trim.I'm less and less happy with the black trim on my skirt, but I cannot remove it at this stage - too much else to do!

Thanks for your help and feedback!

[mollymishap]

Ooh!  It's looking really nice, Orphena!

I have a question: the bones that show in the back, going in a V-ish shape: are they on the bodice or your stays?  Because I don't think you need them if they're on the bodice.  The fit is looking so good, that if you have the time & the inclination to do another fitting without the bones you might see that the bodice looks just fine without them.

If they're on the stays, you could minimize the bumpiness by adding another layer of canvas to your bodice.  That is, if the bumpiness bugs you.  I have a personal peeve about bones showing thru fabric, but that's just me.  And it could be the camera playing tricks with the sheen of the fabric, so the bones might not show so much in person.

Great work & I just Looooove the color on you!!!

[Orphena]

So, I did end up adjusting the arm scye, pulling it down about an inch and a half, and smoothing out the curve at the back and front. The way it was just wasn't going to be comfortable. While i was in there, i also added a layer of cotton batting over the back to cover the bones...thanks for the catch, molly! I'm working on shoulder puffs today, using a pattern from Tudor tailor.

I have a question about trim... Do you think I can get away with NOT adding trim to the bodice? I have more metal filigree bits (although some are small ), but I'm hesitant to add big bold black and gold trim to the nice clean bodice! If it was just gold, I could do it, but the skirt has black and gold, and I cannot see a way to carry on the theme without the black... Help me out!

I DO have a nice long strand of pearls to drape all over the bodice, and a metallic gold standing open ruff...