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A question about comfort

Started by genyferbelle, June 30, 2013, 10:29:09 PM

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genyferbelle

My first sewing post!!! Hello ladies (and I assume a few gentlemen).This is a half sewing, half garbing question.

When it comes to comfort, do you ladies prefer stays as part of your undergarments, or try to have most of the structure be in the bodices?

I'm most likely going to be a part of the street cast  (I got a "we want you to come back on such and such day..I would be a merchant or peasant class character) and will need to make new garb for this season.

This will be my first time on cast.I get hot very easily, and I'm rather ..poofy ;)

With my previous corset wearing experience, I have to wear a bra. Would you recommend a more period style bra, AND stays, THEN a bodice with no boning? (I would be using rope for my stays, and the heavy duty zip ties for any "boning")

I have just about every ren faire pattern the 3 big companies (well now 2 companies) make.And often just draft my own regardless.But haven't picked a specific look yet. Any ladies on the more..um..poofy side as well have a preferred stay/bodice/corset style for cinching in some spots while leaving others more mobile?

Ok, enough rambling..
Thank you all!And it's nice to meet fellow sleep deprived individuals with no storage space left un-fabric-ed ;)

Brute Squad.

isabelladangelo

#1
It sounds like you are confusing a bunch of different things.  It's okay - I think everyone does when they first enter into the world of garbing - whether it be historical or not!   :D They didn't wear bras in the 16th C - at least the part most Faires try to go for. There is evidence of what we would consider bras (they called them chemise pockets!) in the 15th C but they went away as ladies started to stiffen their gowns around 1510.   Quickly (1530's/1540's), ladies began to wear stays under their gowns and the gowns only had light stiffening if any. 

If you need to wear a bra with your corset or bodice IT DOES NOT FIT! End of story.  Your stays should fit comfortably but keep everything place on it's own.   Bodices as we sometimes see them at the renn faire didn't really exist.   Your stays were your main garment over your chemise.  You could wear a dress over them but it wasn't necessary.   Think of them almost like a sports bra today - you can go jogging in public with just a sports bra in most places and no one would think twice about it.  Yet, you can also go out with a t-shirt over it and no one cares either way - for the most part.   Stays are usually stiffened with cardboard (more like poster board to us with a lot of glue) or reeds.   Today, duct ties work well.   There isn't such a thing in period as a pair of bodies that weren't stiffened somehow.  However, not all regions had stays/pair of bodies.   In Italy, the dress itself would have some sort of stiffening in it - it was to reduce the layers that you had to wear.  It's HOT in Italy and wearing a chemise plus stays plus a dress?   Yeah, no.  Maybe in the winter but not in the summer. 

So, my recommendation is to go with stays, just stays if you are going for the English look.  Wear it over your smock and add a nice skirt.   



This is from the Fete at Bremondsey from about 1569.  You can see what they really wore and they lady wearing her stays, a petticoat, apron, and her smock.   

DonaCatalina

I wear a corset and thin cotton chemise as undergarments. There is no need for a bra with a properly fitted corset.

My gowns are all made with some combination of cotton and silk for breathability. It may take a little looking but you can find garb in cotton fabrics.

I do not bone, or put stays in the gowns themselves. It would be redundant and hot.
I did this in the past and found it to be more uncomfortable than wearing a properly fitted corset.

Not to mention my corset can hold a variety of hidden coolers that a gown could not.

Texas weather is very similar to Spain's so I dress according to the weather. Long sleeves actually help keep you from roasting in the sun and dehydrating as long as you're not wearing polyester.
Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit
Marquesa de Trives
Portrait Goddess

genyferbelle

Quote from: isabelladangelo on June 30, 2013, 11:12:09 PM
It sounds like you are confusing a bunch of different things.  It's okay - I think everyone does when they first enter into the world of garbing - whether it be historical or not!   :D They didn't wear bras in the 16th C - at least the part most Faires try to go for. There is evidence of what we would consider bras (they called them chemise pockets!) in the 15th C but they went away as ladies started to stiffen their gowns around 1510.   Quickly (1530's/1540's), ladies began to wear stays under their gowns and the gowns only had light stiffening if any. 

If you need to wear a bra with your corset or bodice IT DOES NOT FIT! End of story.  Your stays should fit comfortably but keep everything place on it's own.   Bodices as we sometimes see them at the renn faire didn't really exist.   Your stays were your main garment over your chemise.  You could wear a dress over them but it wasn't necessary.   Think of them almost like a sports bra today - you can go jogging in public with just a sports bra in most places and no one would think twice about it.  Yet, you can also go out with a t-shirt over it and no one cares either way - for the most part.   Stays are usually stiffened with cardboard (more like poster board to us with a lot of glue) or reeds.   Today, duct ties work well.   There isn't such a thing in period as a pair of bodies that weren't stiffened somehow.  However, not all regions had stays/pair of bodies.   In Italy, the dress itself would have some sort of stiffening in it - it was to reduce the layers that you had to wear.  It's HOT in Italy and wearing a chemise plus stays plus a dress?   Yeah, no.  Maybe in the winter but not in the summer. 

So, my recommendation is to go with stays, just stays if you are going for the English look.  Wear it over your smock and add a nice skirt.   



This is from the Fete at Bremondsey from about 1569.  You can see what they really wore and they lady wearing her stays, a petticoat, apron, and her smock.

Hi  isabelladangelo,

Thank you for taking the time to respond.This is my first post on sewing/garbing, however  I'm not new to either, and Costume/Fashion Design is my major, so confusion about what is historically accurate isn't my issue.....rather being comfortable is.This is my first time on a cast for a faire.I've been a customer for 6 years now. But I always had the option of taking a break,going out to my car to cool off, loosen garments,etc. I won't have that option now. And being permanently disabled from a back injury, I have to plan WAY WAY WAY ahead when it comes to movement and comfort. So...

My main concern is to LOOK historically appropriate/acceptable for the ren festival (ack the exact years they choose excape me at the moment,..bah humbug...), while being the most comfortable. Sadly, I am very overweight, and my skin can not handle the chaffing caused by just wearing a chemise under my stays/corsets/bodices no matter how little or how much stiffening is involved. I must have an extra layer.

So my thought was something like this..

http://deventerburgerscap.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/making-my-bra-shirt-part-ii.html?m=1

I realize it's more medieval than renaissance.But I was thinking it would keep things a bit more stationary, while absorbing moisture, and would basically help distribute the stress of my weight againtst any boning.And There would hopefully be less of a need to "adjust" myself throughout the day. Also I could make it a bit longer to act as my petticoat, with some rope in the hem to help give my skirts a little more poof.

So just trying to get some ideas from plus sized gals who maybe cheat a bit, to get the look of HA, with some more modern approaches.

:)



Brute Squad.

genyferbelle

Quote from: DonaCatalina on July 01, 2013, 05:13:22 AM
I wear a corset and thin cotton chemise as undergarments. There is no need for a bra with a properly fitted corset.

My gowns are all made with some combination of cotton and silk for breathability. It may take a little looking but you can find garb in cotton fabrics.

I do not bone, or put stays in the gowns themselves. It would be redundant and hot.
I did this in the past and found it to be more uncomfortable than wearing a properly fitted corset.

Not to mention my corset can hold a variety of hidden coolers that a gown could not.

Texas weather is very similar to Spain's so I dress according to the weather. Long sleeves actually help keep you from roasting in the sun and dehydrating as long as you're not wearing polyester.

Hi DonaCatalina,

Thank you as well for taking the time to respond.

Can you elaborate on the cooler in your corset? (Now that sounds like an odd book title, LOL).

Do you add specific elements when sewing, say pockets and what not? I know about chillers in general, is there a specific method you prefer over another?

Thanks!
:)
Brute Squad.

gem

#5
Your sig line made me giggle! "I am the Brute Squad!"  ;D

You might check out this thread from earlier this year; its primary focus is on staying cool, but you might find some other comfort-oriented tips.

I know a lot of women who are moving away from heavily/rigidly boned layers in favor of lighter weight ensembles with more built-in support, either from heat intolerance or other comfort concerns. Kimiko Small, whose new Tudor website Isabella linked to in another post this week, has talked about this quite a bit on her site and elsewhere, as has the costumer from Mode Historique. Your concerns are valid, and should definitely not stop you from having garb that you love!

If you don't have guidelines from your costume director, then I think you have a ton of options. I personally like a lightweight bra under a lot of my garb, for similar reasons.

I had a couple other links to share, but can't track them down at the moment. I'll come back. ;)
Good luck!

isabelladangelo

Alright, awesome!   I'd suggest going Italian then.  There is plenty of evidence of Ladies wearing gowns in different styles from other countries in England.  (French was popular but QEI had a gown made in the Venetian style according to her records).

The gowns a very lightly boned and are mostly made of canvas to stiffen them.  You might want to use two layers if you are worried at all about everything being held in properly.  Each area of Italy had their own style at that time but Venice and Florance seem to be the two major competing styles.   

I'd suggest checking out Anea's webpage for a nice list of painting - sort of pinterest style- of the various regions.  Also Realm Of Venus is great for Venice Italy.  She includes the date ranges which is helpful.  However, both focus on the 16th C so you shouldn't have much of an issue there. 

If you go Venetian (open front) you can put a white (sometimes decorate) heavily boned stomacher in the front gap.   Just lightly bone the front of the bodice (one on either side of the lacing area) and use canvas as the middle layer of the bodice construction.  This should keep you well in place and be comfortable. 


P6099725 by mykeyII, on Flickr

Not the best picture because I'm all hunched over, but this is my dress in the Lower/Middle class Venetian style.  I'm not exactly small and have been considering adding a stomacher to the front of the dress.  However, I wore this all day without a problem.   The dress is a lightweight wool and the jacket (Dutch Cloak) is linen.   

However, if you want to avoid the stomach area entirely, you can go earlier or later 16th C and go with the "sports bra with a skirt attached" styles that were popular through out Italy. 


DSC00684 par Isabella, on ipernity

This is a Venetian style dress a la the 1500's era.   I love this style for it's comfort.  I have this pink one, a blue one, a purple one, a red brocade one, a black velvet one, and a blue/pink/green brocade one.  I think that's all...  I need to make a blue wool one in the 1520's/1530's style in the next few weeks.   Oh, I have a fantastical version of this in pink silk and one in gold silk as well.  I knew there were more!  Oh, and the Ever After Gold court gown is from this era as well....

The bodice fits like a sports bra.  You don't need boning in it although you can add some at the lacing lines if you want.  I typically make them so they lace under the arms were a little bit of a gap isn't going to look odd at all - since no one will see it with my chemise sleeves and my arm in the way.  The bodice is constructed with the neckline of the front slightly lower than the one in the back.  It's just a front bodice and a back bodice piece, sewn at the shoulders, and then around the armscye.  I then flip it and hand sew the neckline closed.  Then, pleat or gather the front skirt panel to the front and ditto for the back.  Sew the skirt panels to the bodice.  Sew up the sides of the skirt from the hem to about 7" from the underbust waistline.  You have a dress!   

Another awesome thing about this style is it is so easy to dress up.   Use brocades or velvets for a fancier look.  Add some pearls and you are done!   

Look through the websites and see if the Italian look is right for you.  I think you'll be happiest with that style.   It's comfortable, correct, and doesn't have a ton of layers. 

genyferbelle

  gem,

I found a pin at Daylight Artworks,Inc with that engraved, and I couldn't resist. It is a must for my pirate garb!!!One of my favorite movies and lines from it!

And thanks for the link! I've been memorizing the how to avoid heat stroke thread, but hadn't seen that one yet.
I will check out the others as well. Our first meeting isn't until the 13th, so I'm hoping to take as many ideas with me to be prepared when the costume guidelines are passed out.

And please come back!!!
;)
Brute Squad.

genyferbelle

Thanks again isabelladangelo!!

I love the Venetian style! I might think about that one some more. They are going to have us develop characters, and I know I want something of a woodsy character...with tons of dangly bits. Maybe a traveler..A scottswoman..a tinker...Ok I'm rambling,..hehehe.

I need to see how relaxed they are about character selections and go from there..

:)
Brute Squad.

DonaCatalina

There is a whole thread on Bodice Chillers here
I have used various ones over the years.
Aurum peccamenes multifariam texit
Marquesa de Trives
Portrait Goddess

genyferbelle

Quote from: DonaCatalina on July 05, 2013, 05:08:24 AM
There is a whole thread on Bodice Chillers here
I have used various ones over the years.

Thanks DonaCatalina!
Brute Squad.

Cilean



I have a large chest, so I perfer to wear my PoB (Pair of bodies) under my gowns and even my Ropas.  In fact, I feel better with the PoB instead of wearing my bras, It helps my body stay in a specific shape, so I have to say? I am always in my PoB, and loving it!

Cilean

Lady Cilean Stirling
"Looking Good is not an Option, It is a Necessity"
My Motto? Never Pay Retail