Advice on a better, slightly more HA bottom?

[theChuck]

Hey. So I have this doublet with an off-white shirt underneath. For several seasons I've been wearing just a pair of plain black pants and a pair of these SCA Boots. It's fine, I guess, but I'm wondering if I could do a little better. Something slightly more historically accurate would be nice, or even just something that comes together a little better. Anyone have advice on this?

[isabelladangelo]

The slashed britches or pumpkin pants were what was worn with a doublet in that cut, normally.   

[theChuck]

Hmm, interesting. And then below the pants, would the bottom of the pants go right into my boots? Or should I get tights and low shoes?

[isabelladangelo]

If you are going for H/A, you need low shoes.  Although boots were worn, they weren't common.   Search for the Mary Rose - an English ship that wrecked in 1545- to see extant examples of men's shoes.  They are all pretty basic leather slip on shoes.  Those with some hosen (thigh highs) and the pumpkin pants would be h/a.

That being said, the doublet itself isn't h/a.  Most doublets were button front.  The few I've seen that do lace up the front tend to be leather.  Grommets were never used until 1826.  So, If you want to start going more h/a, great!   However, keep in mind that you'll need to upgrade the doublet too at some point.     For now, you can cover the grommets with buttons and still lace up the front, a la this extant doublet's upper part:


Fencing Doublet featuring a protruding peascod waist Western European about 1580 CE Leather silk linen cotton by mharrsch, on Flickr

[theChuck]

I was pretty sure it wasn't HA, but that's totally fine by me - I'm not trying to get into SCA or anything. Really I'm just aiming for something that's not totally inaccurate. It seems like paned slops are generally more accurate than just regular black pants, and then stockings and then low shoes are more accurate than boots. Is that right? If so, I've got a bit of searching to do.

[isabelladangelo]

Yes, exactly.  Like I said, boots were worn but they were worn like this:


Notice that he's wearing thigh highs (hosen) and the boots are buttoned to the pants.   Not quite like the boots you typically see at faire.   

So, low shoes are more common. 

[Rani Zemirah]

But the boots are a much more attractive look!   


And I'm not sure exactly what anyone was thinking when they designed that whole "pumpkin pants" look.  Seriously... who wants their nethers to look like a pumpkin, of all things?   

[gem]

Ha! The same guys who wanted their waistlines to look like peapods (see Isabella's peascod-belly doublet photo, above)! And I'm sure that in another 500 years, 21st century re-enactors will be wondering why women would want legs that looked like cigarettes!

***
Chuck, you should definitely check out this thread in the sewing forum for more ideas.

I'm wondering if part of the issue may be that the doublet is dark blue and the pants are black--which is one of those supposed modern "fashion don't"s. If the pants are plain black cotton, like the ones my FIL wears, I can see why you'd want to upgrade. If you don't want to go totally H/A, but still want something in a more formal vein like the doublet, try a different fabric. Black velvet or velveteen might be a nice complement. If you're feeling bold, you could try a cranberry or camel to pull out the accent colors.  Milord's favorite pants are a basic "puffy Renfair pants" style, but they're made of an interesting multi-wale corduroy that gives them just enough interest to stand out, but not compete with a more noble impression. (These are actually the exact same pants, but you can see the different fabric gives a totally different look.) It's definitely more of the Fairwear-noble look, not a historically accurate impression, but it's what Milord likes. (shrug)

(BTW, I believe that that fabric is the blue version of this, which I used for my new bodice. If you want more, they carry it at JoAnn!)

[Rani Zemirah]

LOL  Perhaps by then no one will remember what cigarettes were!  I can't imagine my legs ever looking like that!  Well, not unless most of them were removed, anyway...  heheh

I do admit to being quite flummoxed by many of today's fashion choices, also! 

[DonaCatalina]

Well not all of them were pumpkin shaped. circa 1542 Vienna

[theChuck]

I'm wondering if part of the issue may be that the doublet is dark blue and the pants are black--which is one of those supposed modern "fashion don't"s. If the pants are plain black cotton, like the ones my FIL wears, I can see why you'd want to upgrade. If you don't want to go totally H/A, but still want something in a more formal vein like the doublet, try a different fabric. Black velvet or velveteen might be a nice complement. If you're feeling bold, you could try a cranberry or camel to pull out the accent colors.  Milord's favorite pants are a basic "puffy Renfair pants" style, but they're made of an interesting multi-wale corduroy that gives them just enough interest to stand out, but not compete with a more noble impression. (These are actually the exact same pants, but you can see the different fabric gives a totally different look.) It's definitely more of the Fairwear-noble look, not a historically accurate impression, but it's what Milord likes. (shrug)

(BTW, I believe that that fabric is the blue version of this, which I used for my new bodice. If you want more, they carry it at JoAnn!)

First - the fabric I have does seem to resemble that, though I was told the fabric came from elsewhere. Do you have a link to the listing on JoAnn's site?

As to the pants: I actually tuck them in the whole way so they look more like slightly baggy tights. The puffy renpants aren't a bad idea. Side note - I didn't think that blue and black was totally out right now, so I think I need to re-evaluate my civvies..

Anyway, I'm starting to think if something like these - that is, a tan/beige to match the accents on the doublet - would work.

[DonaCatalina]

Possibly, its hard to see the actual color of the Moresca pants, though that might be my monitor.

[theChuck]

Digging this one up. Anyone have a recommendation on where to buy Tudor slops? Aside from the pair at Moresca I found, I also found a guy on Etsy who will make them. Are there other vendors out there that I just can't find?

[DonaCatalina]

I can wholeheartedly recommend these people.
http://www.skyridgedesigns.com/
They will work with you on design and price. They have made costumes for many cast members.

[theChuck]

Dredging this topic up from the depths because I have an update, and need a bit more advice.

I ended up working with Pendragon Costumes to get a pair of panes and pants made. They're awesome to work with, by the way - really helpful and went totally out of their way to help match the fabrics. I put them on the other night with the rest of my stuff, and the result is the picture below. I think they look good, but something's not right. Should I be wearing hose and low shoes with these instead of the boots? There's quite a bit of space between the panes and the pants; any recommendations on how to fill them out, or how to tie the bottoms so they work better?