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Started by Terry Griffith, July 11, 2008, 08:21:23 AM

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Lady Celynn

I agree with Charity that we REALLY need to support the PRF.  We can voice our opinions over the lack of acknowledgement of our wonderful local vendors, terrific local talent and great cast members, but don't let that stop you from coming and having fun.  We will miss lots of people who for one reason or another will not be returning, but that doesn't mean that there's not lots of new friends to be made.  We all need to remember how we felt when it was cancelled a couple of years ago.  We don't want it to happen to us again.  I know I plan on making most if not all weekends and I hope I will see lots of you there too.  Remember we're Renn family and family sticks together.

DuCoeur

I, of course will be attending PRF for several weekends through out the run.  But I do not feel the...urgency to be there as I had in past years.

I will "sacrifice" PRF, alas, to attend Ohio and even Maryland during it's run.  Something I would have never considered in years past.  This is due to the fact that Aside from the most excellent people (as Celynn said my ren Family), The afore  mentioned faires have more to offer...they have retained the magic and it has even grown over the years.  Pittsburgh has lost its spark...

There was such a feeling of fear from the vendors and cast of PRF last year due to the tyranical reign of the PTB that it, quite frankly, showed in the faces of everyone.  Perhaps I am more empathic then most, but that is what i felt everytime I walked through the gates.  Tension and Fear.  That is no way to run a a place of magic and wonderment.....
I would rather endure a thousand biblical hells then live a life of perpetual inconsequence.

Professor M

Charity, your words are quite eloquent, and oh, so true.  And Lady Celynn, I agree with you whole-heartedly.

I believe this faire is growing, and getting better in the process, and it will continue to improve.  The faires in Ohio, Maryland, PA, and other places, have also had periods of upheaval.  They weathered through the tough times, and thanks to the support of the people who loved them, they grew and matured and became the wonderful faires that they are now.

We have a loyal fan base who loves us.  And, from what I saw this weekend while promoting the faire, we also have new people who are discovering us each year.  I met so many people this weekend who were there last year and can't wait to come back, as well as others who are going for their first time.

I remember when the new ownership took over.  I thought it might take them a year or two to get settled and run smoothly.  Then I spoke to people from other faires (like Ohio and MD) who said it will probably be more like 3-5 years.  I see now they are right.  It's going to take a lot of time and effort.  And we're among the privileged people who get to watch, and even have a part in, its success.
"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me."
~ C.S. Lewis

Terry Griffith

Here, here, Professor.  Our "Spark" comes from each of us and is only magnified by its reflection in each other.  It doesn't come from management nor is it dampened by poor management.  We have a cast that, unlike other faires I have visited, actually play with the patrons, playtrons and each other.  Which, btw, cannot be noticed from the confines of the pub.  I think a great deal is missed by those who come to faire, sit in the pub and criticize it's spirit.  Some of the negativity I have seen on this very forum has done more to stifle the magic than all the threats of tyrannical management.  All management can do is fire people.  To be denied our wonderment and creativity with each other is the fatal stab in the heart.  The Muppets said it best,

"Why are there so many songs about rainbows? That's part of what rainbows do.
Rainbows are memories, sweet dream reminders–/ What is it you'd like to do?
All of us watching and hoping you find it, we know that you're watching too.
Someday you'll find it, the Rainbow Connection, the lovers, the dreamers and you."

And rennies too.
"There's a unicorn that's hangin' in what's known as father's room......"

FoxgloveLupine

Hello All,

Though you may know me in real life, this is the first time I've decided to jump on the board.  :)  Some of you may know me by my RL name, Laurie or some may know my "World Renown" Kitty shoes....but that aside..Hello to all my friends from the outside world, I hope you are well.

I wanted to comment on the new Jesters to the faire.  I noticed that is was said they were both from Colorado.  I wanted to correct this, as I spent the afternoon with one of them and she's a local girl, by the name of Zoey.  I think she's going to fit in quite well at faire, very smart girl, and looking forward to her first faire.  She seems like a great person and I'm sure you'll find her a great fit and like her a lot.  She's local, let's show her some support.

As for the postings about the Faire it's self....I know I enjoyed myself like crazy last year and I think most of you did too.  I know we'll miss some of the local talent who will not be returning, but for some shows, maybe it's time to bring in new blood and ideas.  I know we may not be thrilled about the amount of people not of "local stock" but who knows, maybe the new acts will be something you'd like.  Everything goes through growing pains, but it we jump ship now, we'll never find out what this ugly duckling could grow into (aren't I great at mixing metaphors.)  I for one intend to support the Faire as much as I can, whenever I'm not traveling for shoots.  After all, much like family, it's the only local one we got. :)  Stepping off my high horse and signing off..... 
Foxglove Lupine
--------
Assassin for Hire
Queen of Kitty Shoes
Girl with the big lens
"Rude...Rude and not Ginger"

FoxgloveLupine

Terry,

Besides being a very true statement, you just became my hero for quoting the Muppets!  I think I need to request that at your next show.... :)  How's you Kermit impression? 

Quote from: Terry Griffith on July 19, 2008, 06:34:44 PM
"Why are there so many songs about rainbows? That's part of what rainbows do.
Rainbows are memories, sweet dream reminders–/ What is it you'd like to do?
All of us watching and hoping you find it, we know that you're watching too.
Someday you'll find it, the Rainbow Connection, the lovers, the dreamers and you."
Foxglove Lupine
--------
Assassin for Hire
Queen of Kitty Shoes
Girl with the big lens
"Rude...Rude and not Ginger"

DuCoeur

Ok I see where this is going...going after those of us who enjoy the pub? 

I also understand that most of you are also employees.  I have been doing Renaissance Faires going on 6 or seven years.  For some of you, Working at PRF was your first experience so I understand its significance.  I also think some of you are missing the point....

Again, like last year, WE (yes us pub goers, those of us who pay an entrance fee and financially support the Faire) are having our comments twisted and misconstrued as being unsupportive.  We want to support this Faire!!!  We want to be able to have a Faire we can say we are proud of.  The PTB are not giving us anything!!!

And if it was  not for returning Favorites (Yes you the employees, cast and crew) and new Favorites very well met and instant friends,  I would not be there as often as I might if you were not there.

DEar friends this is not a criticism of you, or your talents to make us laugh, and sing along and play.  I just know what I "felt" when I walked around the shire (contrary to popular belief that I don't actually leave the pub).  I felt tension and fear of the PTB.

My two cents and I know thats all its worth.
I would rather endure a thousand biblical hells then live a life of perpetual inconsequence.

Charity Morgan

Quote from: DuCoeur on July 20, 2008, 05:15:02 AM
Ok I see where this is going...going after those of us who enjoy the pub? 

... We want to support this Faire!!! ...
And if it was  not for returning Favorites (Yes you the employees, cast and crew) and new Favorites very well met and instant friends,  I would not be there as often as I might if you were not there....

DEar friends this is not a criticism of you, or your talents to make us laugh, and sing along and play.  I just know what I "felt" when I walked around the shire (contrary to popular belief that I don't actually leave the pub).  I felt tension and fear of the PTB.

My two cents and I know thats all its worth.

Dearest friends and family....
it takes all of us...but especially the folks who pay to come through the gate, to make this festival happen!  I have know most of you for several seasons and I realize this tension is not fun or what we were used to.  However...as I read these more recent posts many true things have been said.  It will take awhile to grow through some changes.  We are fortunate to even be open after a complete shut down due to bankruptcy.  There is a huge financial commitment involved and last season was a time of observation.  Perhaps this year a few adjustments will make the tensions less.  Perhaps we won't experience the same "tension and fear" that even our paytrons are saying were displayed.   

The folks who enjoy our pub are the villagers who spend enough to allow the cast to now be paid - unlike previous years when many of us were not.  The years of attendance (in my opinion) are what give those paytrons the experience to be our ambassadors and represent us well.  Ducouer and others have always stood in our honor and kept faithful to this faire, even when times were very trying.  Generally there are few shoppes or shows that he does not know about, so he does leave the pub! (you don't think they sell that great garb he wears at the PUB do you?!) I have been to other festivals with Ducouer and others of you, he (& you) knows the all of the regional faires, he can compare many aspects, he will be able to tell you any number of similarities and or differences....and his/your opinion is quite valuable.  It is sad for him, or any of us to feel our two cents are only worth as much. But I definately relate to how he is feeling!  Frankly, without the lot of us it is not likely this show would have gotten far off the ground last year. 

It is a new season.  Some of our friends will not be present.  Many are not returning by choice, intimidation has a way of causing that to happen.  Vendors we have known for years will be missing.  This economy and the tensions that were mentioned are factors, and may be factors throughout the run.  Plenty of things are not made easy (I would love some electricity connected at my booth so we could start working on it by now!)  Cast members are just now beginning to get together for the first of their "rehearsals" while the director is still in Colorado. Plenty of details such as these continue to cause concern for many.  So instead of the exciting flurry of getting festival ready which is what I remember from seasons in the past - we will scramble to get anything done in just a few weeks to make a presentation that might not be judged poorly by the public or the PTB.

It will be an interesting season...see you at the pub (from the window in my booth directly across the way!!)  Now...what will we WEAR?!  More pirates PLEASE!
Charity Morgan ~ Morgans Bounty
Purveyor of questionably acquired treasures.

Charity Morgan

Ever wonder what the vision of the PTB is?  Take a look these pics of the ongoing season at their Colorado Festival.  Warning there are PAGES of bellydancers!  But, the morning gate show creates such excitement, when I was there the crowd grew and came early to watch so they could determine what to go to first - the entertainers feel honored to be chosen to do a few minutes at gate - it pumps up attendance at their shows all day. - Also - notice the calibre of the costuming and the more professional appearance.  That's what our new owner (at least when I worked for him last year) wants to see.  He doesn't want to see the cast sitting around complaining about the heat or kibitzing out of character in the foodcourt and at booths...SURE, providing a "greenroom" would have helped, but as enetertainers, appearance is everything and for those of you interested in what will make this festival more successful...take a look at what they are already doing in Colorado.  You'll find some faces you know!
I found these on line.  there are lots of pics.  Just keep hitting next.  I think this guy reallllly liked the belly dancers.

http://www.renaissancefaire.net/20080705-Colorado/lowres.htm
Charity Morgan ~ Morgans Bounty
Purveyor of questionably acquired treasures.

FoxgloveLupine

DuCoeur and the rest of the Pub goers,

I hope you do not think I was attacking you, as this was never my intention.  Instead I was trying to support PRF.  I fully support Pub going, both at Faire and outside.  Heck, I met most of you at the Harp for the first time. :)  But like the family we all keep calling ourselves and many of us feel to be, we need to remember this...Though we may squabble amongst ourselves, we also need to be able to close ranks and stick together.  Though we may not like all the choices the new management has made, it's still the reason many of us know each other and have this great Ren familly.  *HUGS*

And Ducoer, if you keep whining....I may have to break out the whips and flying monkeys to make you stop :p
Foxglove Lupine
--------
Assassin for Hire
Queen of Kitty Shoes
Girl with the big lens
"Rude...Rude and not Ginger"

Terry Griffith

#40
Em...Whips and flying monkeys?  I've got to start whining more.

I would never deny anyone's enjoyment of faire no matter how they experience it.  I'm glad the pub has a great mix of people enjoying it all.  I apologise if I sounded a bit harsh about the Pubers.  To a person, there's not one of the "Pirates Pub Regulars" that I am not honored to call friend.  It's because of you that I can make a living inside and outside of the faire. 

We all have different ways of enjoying PRF.  The important thing is to maintain the picture and the experience for everyone.  I think our cast does that very well.  The stage acts, the joust, the food, the vendors and very lovely privies are there to weave their magic but the soul of the festival is the cast.  I firmly believer that the cast improved 100% over the previous incarnation and I expect to see innovations in their story line and interaction again this year.
"There's a unicorn that's hangin' in what's known as father's room......"

DuCoeur

#41
Thank you Charity for the kind words.  You have, more eloquently, related my "feelings" then I did. And as always you have my love and respect.

FoxGlove...I get it, and now after talking to you yesterday at GLMF you do too.  Can we still discuss the whips and flying monkey's???

To anyone else that I may have offended I apologize...You are all masters of your craft and I would never say that you are not doing your jobs.  I would never say that the general audiences "saw" the tension at Faire.  But I know you.  I know people and while you were all consumate proffesionals at all times,  it is what I "felt" in the off performance moments we shared.

Lastly that any of my comments are viewed as a personal attack or even personnlly negative is soley the interpretation of the reader.  This is a forum for open discussion.

So thats it...in the words of the great Stan Lee " 'nuff said."

I would rather endure a thousand biblical hells then live a life of perpetual inconsequence.

PesterTheJester

Quote from: FoxgloveLupine on July 19, 2008, 11:56:43 PM
Hello All,

Though you may know me in real life, this is the first time I've decided to jump on the board.  :)  Some of you may know me by my RL name, Laurie or some may know my "World Renown" Kitty shoes....but that aside..Hello to all my friends from the outside world, I hope you are well.

I wanted to comment on the new Jesters to the faire.  I noticed that is was said they were both from Colorado.  I wanted to correct this, as I spent the afternoon with one of them and she's a local girl, by the name of Zoey.  I think she's going to fit in quite well at faire, very smart girl, and looking forward to her first faire.  She seems like a great person and I'm sure you'll find her a great fit and like her a lot.  She's local, let's show her some support.

As for the postings about the Faire it's self....I know I enjoyed myself like crazy last year and I think most of you did too.  I know we'll miss some of the local talent who will not be returning, but for some shows, maybe it's time to bring in new blood and ideas.  I know we may not be thrilled about the amount of people not of "local stock" but who knows, maybe the new acts will be something you'd like.  Everything goes through growing pains, but it we jump ship now, we'll never find out what this ugly duckling could grow into (aren't I great at mixing metaphors.)  I for one intend to support the Faire as much as I can, whenever I'm not traveling for shoots.  After all, much like family, it's the only local one we got. :)  Stepping off my high horse and signing off..... 

Let me correct your correction about me.  ACTUALLY both Jesters listed ON THE WEBSITE are for one MALE and for 2 Colorado Acts.  I was not refering to street cast at all.  I was refering to Arsene Dupin & The Marquiche, King of Fools.  Both of which can be found http://pgh-renfest.com/Entertainment%20Acts.html here.  I have no idea who Zoey is nor is she listed anywhere on the website(as I don't think street cast generally gets listed on any ren faire site), so I speak no ill will against her.

And also I'm not saying the new "foreign" acts are bad acts, I'm just one to support local talent first.  It's both economically smart & have a fan base of people who would be attending the faire already here.  If you have 2 Acts, one is a good act with a good fan base is say Colorado(for the sake of arguement) and the 2nd act is a good act with a good fan base in Pittsburgh(for the sake of arguement) for your Pittsburgh Faire, who would be the logical to hire?  IMHO it would be the local performer because he has the audience that is actually able to attend the faire.  Also I'm not saying don't hire ANY non-local acts by any means, but I would have more local to tri-state entertains than those not from the area.  Granted I have no business or economics degree so perhaps I'm missing something here, but this is what sounds logical to me.

As for "what's going on in CO", please feel free to read the pages up in the CO section about the new "appearance code" JP is putting into place at his faires.  As I said before I know "It's Jim's toy and he can play with it anyway he wants", but really If you look to see the new appearance requirements it describes most of the people who do circuit.  Not to use a label but it's some what easier here.  Hippies and those of the like.  The new appearance code prohibits Dreads, Guaged Ears, Ecessive piericing, tattoos, and long beards(trust me I was asked about mine more than once), etc.  And mind you none of this falls under the "because those aren't period" reasoning.  It's just how Jim wants it.  A friend of a friend was turned away as a merchant because he had dreads.  He DROVE to CO only to find out he had to drive back home because of his hair.  Now when I first reflected on all this I thought "Maybe I'm just too far in and I can't see this from an outsider view anymore"  So I mentioned this to my mom(who's only reason for coming to the faire is becaz I work there and she supports my endevors) one day and her first immediate response was "Wait isn't that who works at the faire?".  To which I responded "Wow I thought that was only my response" and next she said "Your dad hires a guy to do work for him who has dreadlocks and that man is a millionaire, I don't see how the hair means anything".  I have to say Ren Faire is one of the last spots I thought I would see the Corp or Disney look come into play.  Frankly is saddens me.  I really didn't want to bring this up on the boards but I feel the need to now.  Apparently it's thought that those who look that way drive customers away.  I only wish I was making all this up because of some random angst I have for not being rehired, but sadly it's not the case.  Check the CO boards if you doubt this, Mike(CO's Jack Sparrow) confirmed it all and at the same time is being attacked because of it because he's a dreaded pirate with a beard(of course his outfit is pre-approved by management)

I love my faires and I love my faire families.  They are the reason I've been doing this for 8 years and will continue to do this for as long as I can.  Any faire I've went to(even ones out of the country in Canada) I've ALWAYS been welcomed with open arms by every cast member and vendor I met.  When I traveled to Canada with Steve(Pittsburgh's Jack) the first night after the faire, we were walking the camp grounds and came upon a circle of people, we walked over to join then, as we got near one of them stopped us at first and said "This is a memorial" to which we politely apologized and started to walk away, as we turned the guy said "Oh no, please stay, as long as you're respectful of it we would love to have you".  The memorial was for a faire friend/family of theirs who passed between seasons.  The stories they told of the person sounded so familiar to stories I hear all around faires.  They went around the circle each telling a story about the man, when it came to us they asked if we would like to say anything, and we told them all about "The Queen Mum" and how she touched all of our lives in the short amount of time she was at the faire.(typing this and remembering her tears me up a bit I must confess).  I mean it amazes me to no end still there we are 2 people from another country even and they welcome us into a MEMORIAL service without a 2nd thought because we were faire family now.  This and my love of performing is the reason I do faires.  There is not a faire out there you can go to that if something bad happens to you, you won't have 20 people trying to fix it.  I whole heartly repeat, I love my faires and I love my faire families.

FoxgloveLupine

Quote from: DuCoeur on July 21, 2008, 07:03:42 AM
FoxGlove...I get it, and now after talking to you yesterday at GLMF you do too.  Can we still discuss the whips and flying monkey's???

Wow, between you and Terry....If I'd known I would get this kind of response, I would only threaten/promised them if you stopped whining.... :P 
Foxglove Lupine
--------
Assassin for Hire
Queen of Kitty Shoes
Girl with the big lens
"Rude...Rude and not Ginger"

Mistress Charlotte

#44
If I may interject a thought or two or three or four...........

We are our experiences.  We default to what we think is most important to aid a situation, based on our personal knowledge.  Where one may think that the selection of entertainment is most important, others will disagree and feel that shopping is a priority.

We have a vast set of desires and needs expressed here.  We have heard from patrons, entertainers and cast. 

I agree with Charity.  Patrons are the most important aspect of faire.  Without the patrons, what would be the point of the festival? We can buy the food, decorate the banquet hall, and send out the invitations but if nobody comes, there is no party. So yes, Patrons are important.  But those of us who put the party together also have certain expectations and needs as well.  I would like to present a point of view from a vendor.

I have been a body artist for over 18 years and have worked many festivals, city fairs, private and corporate events.  I have a wide array of experiences to draw from....  I have tried many things in order to grow and promote my business.  It takes trial and error in order to figure out the best options to meet those needs.  It didn't occur my first year........It didn't occur in my second year.  It is an on-going procedure.  I get many opinions from many people all the time with suggestions on what I should do to promote and improve my business.  I welcome all opinions.  But the fact is, most ideas that are thrown my way are ideas that I have tried before in the past eighteen years.  It's not that I would ignore their opinions it's just that I've already tried it.  Believe me, in eighteen years you try a lot of different ideas.  Never would I say to someone.......  "Nope, been there, tried that, doesn't work."  I express my thanks to them for their idea.  After all, I am thankful.  I am always grateful to someone who feels generous enough to share ideas on my behalf.  If it's an idea that's important enough for people to keep repeating it, I need to revisit it. So although the idea that was shared might be a moot point, I gather the information, keep it close at hand and save it in case I should want to try it again someday. 

So even though you may feel that your ideas and opinions may be lost on the PTB.  I would bet a dollar that they are not.  The faire is a corporation.  They have a lot of people to please.  They have to please me too.  I have a contract with the PTB.  We have an agreement between each other.  I agree to provide a beautiful environment, quality service and the best product I can to make the faire a desirable place to be and return to.  They agree to promote me.  Provide a safe and clean environment for me to work in. Make sure that they don't over saturate the market with the same type of vendors. 

Now for the PTB not listening...............  They are listening right here right  now.  I promise.........  For example...... several months back there was a large discussion about the cast at Colorado pumping up their visibility.  I for one wrote a long rant about how "invisible" the cast was............ how you can't find them, or know who was cast or not.  After all I had been there a couple of years already and still didn't know who they were.  I was totally unaware that the cast wore roses on their costume to help people to identify them.  I knew that PRF did, but I had not even noticed the CORF roses.   I checked my brochures, (I keep a copy from every year on file) to see if there was anything even mentioning the roses.  There in small print was the information.  This year, I open up the brochure and guess what was inside.  A picture of a very large rose and an explanation of what it was all about........  Never did I contact the PTB about this......  It just happened.......  So don't give up....  I'm sure they are listening.

I hope that you see that any "new" project takes time to grow.  It needs time to reveal its needs.  First you need to take care of the immediate issues, and then you can spend time on the polishing of the project.  You can't plant your garden until you turn the ground and fertilize it.  I came into this project with apprehension.  But honestly, I feel that the PTB has a grand vision and I intend to be there when the whole thing springs into life. I just need to be patient and give the seeds time to germinate and grow.  The faire is our ground and the people therein (including patrons, playtrons, cast, entertainment, vendors, management, grounds crew, security, carpenters, and owners) are the fertilizer, nurturing the grounds of Morelandshire until it sprouts with life and longevity.

I too am sad that some of the PRF cast has been released.  Please understand, PRF is not the only faire undergoing cuts.  Colorado has had 2 years of cast cuts, they certainly are not exempt from the weeding.  And as far as local entertainment, there are many, many stage acts as well as cast that are not local to Colorado. 

And the tension.............  Have you ever been nervous on your first day at a new job?  Well consider the feelings of the vendors and the cast.  Your company has just undergone a major change and you now have a new boss.  Of course you are on your toes and nervous.  You want to stay in your job and you are doing everything possible to make that happen.  It's not just a "faire thing".  It happens in corporate American all the time.  As a vendor, I want to be the one who management feels is the best choice for the job.  I waited 6 years to get into the Colorado faire.  Do you think I want to lose that opportunity?  Heck no.........

I too feel the website is inadequate.  But as mentioned above, it is a mirror of the Colorado website.  Most Talent and Vendors are not listed.  It only promotes what is new.  After all, people really don't "read" websites.... They browse them.   It's not personal.... There are some really beautiful Faire websites out there and I wish..............I wish...............  I can only guess why they don't modernize their website........  Perhaps they feel their advertising dollars are better spent on Television and newsprint.  I have to tell you...........  The advertising campaign here in Colorado has been more than aggressive.  I see it on TV all the time and in print form of many types.  I don't know "officially" if the overall numbers are up for faire, but I can tell you by my sales............  the numbers are waaaaaay up.  I have taken the time to let the PTB know this.  I want them to know that their advertising dollars have been well spent..........  I am crossing my fingers that they are planning the same type of aggressive campaign in PA as they have here.  After all......... New sales come from attendance, and that comes from getting the word out, not from the fact that "About Face Painting" is going to be there.  Repeat customers come again because of that.  In addition..........  The CORF opening weekend  broke an 8 year record in attendance.  So hold on to your boots ya'll........ I believe we are in for a wild ride this year!  Woo Hoo!

How does that saying go???   

There is no " I " in TEAM..............   I wanna be a team player.  I need the patrons and the playtrons, I need the cast, I need the entertainers I need the musicians.  As a vendor, I need all of you to make it work.  I certainly don't want to be the unwanted step sister. It saddens me to think you may see Colorado as the "privileged" one.  I was nervous to death, to introduce myself here. I was the one who felt like an outsider.  But I was welcomed warmly.  I am looking forward to returning to Morelandshire.  I arrive a day or hopefully two before.  Tight schedules keep me running at bare minimums.

I now have 2 pages of discussion.  I'm sure I have more than bored you to tears.  So I will cease and desist. 

PS – Dearest Terry.... I really hope you get your wall.  But...!  5 times a day people file in to hear the bells and 5 times a day they file out.  And they file right past my booth and many others, as well as the pirates pub and your wonderful music pulls them right in!!   Maybe they will work on the timing......
Cause, "Cake or death?" That's a pretty easy question.
Anyone could answer that.
"Cake or death?"
"Eh, cake please."