Author Topic: police  (Read 20737 times)

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Offline PurpleDragon

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Re: police
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2008, 01:21:26 PM »
I don't think it's illegal to have them though, so like most said, just explain who you are and where you are going.

It was in California last time I checked.  You cannot order them to be shipped there by the USPS anyway.  Also, the police will confiscate a weapon such as a sword if they are in the home and the police officer sees them. (Happened to a buddy of mine, lost all his swords and daggers).  

Here in Texas, The penal code is as follows;

Texas Penal Code Title 10 CH.46
46.5 NONAPPLICABILITY
(e)THe provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of an illegal knife do not apply to an individual carrying a bowie knife or a sword used in a historical demonstration or in a cermony in which the knife or sword is significant to the performance of the ceremony.
(g)For the purpose of Subsection(b)(2), "premises" includes a recreational vehicle that is being ussed by the person acararying the handgun, illegal knife, or club as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permenent.  In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home and horse trailer with living quarters. Text of subsec. (g) as added by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 795 1
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Offline Valiss

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Re: police
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2008, 01:40:00 PM »

It was in California last time I checked.  You cannot order them to be shipped there by the USPS anyway.  Also, the police will confiscate a weapon such as a sword if they are in the home and the police officer sees them. (Happened to a buddy of mine, lost all his swords and daggers). 


It is NOT illegal to have a sword in CA.  You can read it here:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=0608978859+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

They only restrict concealed stuff, like cane swords.  As I understand it, CA laws are less harsh than TX in this regard.

Offline Black Armor

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Re: police
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2008, 01:49:07 PM »
A polite answer should be the best remedy, however I question the validity of such a question from any police officer.  Blades are not illegal and no license is needed to carry them except if you are on a public street and they are concealed, I believe the legal length is 4", such as a pocket knife.  Further I know of no way to hide a 40' hand and a half battle sword,
but if it is in your trunk then without probable cause he has no right to invade there-in.  Of course probable cause is debatable and the gendarme most likely thinks that if he stops you then he has probable cause.  I would check with the local constabulary.    

Blake Duke, I couldn't help but notice the derogatory tone toward police officers in your post.  Maybe I am just being overly sensitive but just what questions do you consider "valid from any police officer?" You don't think that it would be important for a police officer to know if there are any weapons in the vehicle he/she just stopped?  As far as blades not being illegal, you are absolutely wrong.  To make it easier, here is the Michigan law as it pertains to this situation:

- 750.227. (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk,
stiletto, a double-edged non-folding stabbing instrument of
any length, or any dangerous weapon, except a hunting
knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about
his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in
any vehicle... except in his or her dwelling house [or]
place of business... (3) A person who violates this
section is guilty of a felony...

The next subsection goes on to say that this law does not apply to a weapon that is being transported in a vehicle as long as it is in a "container" and inaccessible to the driver.  

In regard to your 4" blade pocket knife reference, Michigan law only refers to a 3" blade or any other dangerous weapon being carried for "unlawful intent".  For example, a farmer who is carrying a 4" pocket knife because he uses it to cut open hay bales would be within the law.  A guy carrying the same knife because he thinks he might need to use it in a bar fight would be carrying it with "unlawful intent".

Lastly, your comment, "Of course probable cause is debatable and the [police officer] most likely thinks that if he stops you then he has probable cause", is a stretch.  I am a police officer and for you to make a blanket assumption about what any given police officer thinks during a traffic stop is uninformed and offensive to police officers.  You obviously do not know what "probable cause" is or how an officer develops it; however, I am not inclined to explain probable cause as it pertains to search and seizure here.            

Bee Boy, having said that, the correct answer to your question is to carry the weapons in the trunk of your vehicle if at all possible.  If you drive a pickup and don't have a trunk or for some reason cannot put them in the trunk, then I would suggest keeping them in their sheaths and as inaccessible to you as possible.  In a pickup the best place would be behind the seat between the seat back and the cab wall.  Obviously you would explain to the officer that they are costume props that you wear while participating at the ren faire.  It doesn't matter if you actually work for the ren faire or not.  My opinion is that even though you are carrying them lawfully, it's probably a good idea to only keep them in the vehicle when traveling to and from faire.  My jurisdiction is only a couple of miles from my home faire (MiRF) we have never had any problems with anyone from faire regarding weapons.  As a matter of fact, my sergeant stopped a costumed employee of the MiRF last year and the employee and there were no problems at all and he was let go with a warning.  It was funny too because after that stop, my sergeant decided to check out the faire for the first time and took his family a few weekends later.  In the State of Michigan you would be fine but Blake Duke was right in that you should check with your local police department.  You might also find some helpful information at this link to state knife laws:  

 http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/sta-law.htm

I just quickly looked over the Florida law and unless I missed something, I didn't see any restrictions for transporting your weapons in a vehicle.  It looked like the law was directed more toward concealed weapons on your person and using them unlawfully.

Hope this helps.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 01:59:23 PM by Black Armor »

Offline SirBlackFox

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Re: police
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2008, 01:55:55 PM »
As a safety note, make sure all the heathen blood is removed from one's blade prior to transporting.
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Offline PurpleDragon

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Re: police
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2008, 02:10:10 PM »

It is NOT illegal to have a sword in CA.  You can read it here:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=0608978859+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

They only restrict concealed stuff, like cane swords.  As I understand it, CA laws are less harsh than TX in this regard.


sorry, can't access that page, it appears to be a bad link my friend.  I am listing what I know as a vendor that cannot ship orders to California due to legal concerns.  I have also seen a drop in the number of stores inside of malls that sell swords and such even here in Texas, where laws are somewhat 'lighter' than elsewhere.


**Amendment** after managing to find the code referenced, I find that I just need to make sure to label certain items as "not available to ship to California".  Thanks Valiss I appreciate you pointing that out to me. Though, I am left wondering why my friends sword collection (the entire collection) was taken from him, it was in his home, it's not like he was carrying them outside with him.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 02:21:33 PM by PurpleDragon »
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Offline Valiss

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Re: police
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2008, 02:22:41 PM »

It is NOT illegal to have a sword in CA.  You can read it here:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=0608978859+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

They only restrict concealed stuff, like cane swords.  As I understand it, CA laws are less harsh than TX in this regard.


sorry, can't access that page, it appears to be a bad link my friend.  I am listing what I know as a vendor that cannot ship orders to California due to legal concerns.   I have also seen a drop in the number of stores inside of malls that sell swords and such even here in Texas, where laws are somewhat 'lighter' than elsewhere.

Use google my friend:

http://www.equalccw.com/knifelaw.html

Anyway, as far as I can tell there doesn't appear to be any restrictions on shipping a blade to CA.  If correct, those that do not shop to CA are just missing out on business. But maybe ther are seperate laws for shipping.

And if swords were illegal in CA, then do you think they would really have over 30 ren faires a year in the state?  :)
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 02:24:37 PM by Valiss »

Offline Tipsy Gypsy

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Re: police
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2008, 02:29:19 PM »
As a matter of curiosity, would Texas Penal Code 10 ch 46 also apply to dirks? Milord often forgets after events that it's even on his belt, so accustomed is he to wearing it. I think most police officers would see it in the context of his garb and realize that he doesn't wear it as part of his everyday attire, but still!

Generally speaking, any "sharp & pointies" we might be carrying to festivals are secured in the trunk of the car anyhow, or in the cargo area of the Suburban, along with tent, books on Scottish culture/history if we're going to a cultural festival as Clan reps, etc., so our purpose should be pretty obvious.
"It's just water, officer, I swear. And yeast. And a little honey. How the alcohol got in, I have no idea!"

Offline Valiss

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Re: police
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2008, 02:32:23 PM »
I think everyone should keep their weapons in the trunk when they travel anyway; can you imagine what it would be like in a car accident if you had losse blades flying around the cab?

Offline Tipsy Gypsy

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Re: police
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2008, 02:34:33 PM »

It is NOT illegal to have a sword in CA.  You can read it here:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=0608978859+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

They only restrict concealed stuff, like cane swords.  As I understand it, CA laws are less harsh than TX in this regard.


sorry, can't access that page, it appears to be a bad link my friend.  I am listing what I know as a vendor that cannot ship orders to California due to legal concerns.   I have also seen a drop in the number of stores inside of malls that sell swords and such even here in Texas, where laws are somewhat 'lighter' than elsewhere.

Use google my friend:

http://www.equalccw.com/knifelaw.html

Anyway, as far as I can tell there doesn't appear to be any restrictions on shipping a blade to CA.  If correct, those that do not shop to CA are just missing out on business. But maybe ther are seperate laws for shipping.

And if swords were illegal in CA, then do you think they would really have over 30 ren faires a year in the state?  :)

FWIW, I bought my shamshir from a vendor in CA, via mail order. It's a credible-looking stage prop, but good enough to hold somewhat of an edge if I were inclined to potential injury when I dance  :o ; the tip is pointy enough to poke a hole, regardless.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 02:43:25 PM by Tipsy Gypsy »
"It's just water, officer, I swear. And yeast. And a little honey. How the alcohol got in, I have no idea!"

Offline PurpleDragon

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Re: police
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2008, 02:53:16 PM »

http://www.equalccw.com/knifelaw.html

Anyway, as far as I can tell there doesn't appear to be any restrictions on shipping a blade to CA.  If correct, those that do not shop to CA are just missing out on business. But maybe ther are seperate laws for shipping.

And if swords were illegal in CA, then do you think they would really have over 30 ren faires a year in the state?  :)

Unfortunately, that website is someone elses "advice" on how to deal with the laws.  The issue is that there are some blades that are ILLEGAL in CA to own, and therefore cannot be shipped there.  These include switchblades, sword canes, and the like (concealed blades or spring loaded blades etc..etc..).
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Offline Valiss

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Re: police
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2008, 02:56:20 PM »

http://www.equalccw.com/knifelaw.html

Anyway, as far as I can tell there doesn't appear to be any restrictions on shipping a blade to CA.  If correct, those that do not shop to CA are just missing out on business. But maybe ther are seperate laws for shipping.

And if swords were illegal in CA, then do you think they would really have over 30 ren faires a year in the state?  :)

Unfortunately, that website is someone elses "advice" on how to deal with the laws.  The issue is that there are some blades that are ILLEGAL in CA to own, and therefore cannot be shipped there.  These include switchblades, sword canes, and the like (concealed blades or spring loaded blades etc..etc..).

As I said, dont take my word for it, use Google and you will find the law itself.

And you are correct on those blades listed, however generally, speakings swords are permitted. Again non-concealed blades.

Offline beeboy

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Re: police
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2008, 03:52:36 PM »
allright, after hunting down a cop on the streets of cincinatti *i forget why im here*........


"i have a question.  i work at renaissance festivals, and i have a dagger in my bag.  is that illegal?"

"a dagger?"

"yeah, about yay long.  its zip tied, so i couldnt open if if i wanted"

"well as long as its in ur bag and not in ur pants"

Offline Queen_of_Navarre

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Re: police
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2008, 03:58:06 PM »
Many years ago, when I was half the woman I am now, I got stopped on my way home from a S.C.A. dance event. The officer who stopped me had spied my sword in the back window. He was all ready to haul me away for an illegal weapon unless I proved to him I used it in my *act*. It was freezing cold but I took off my cover up and danced with the sword on my head.... oh by the way, he let me go.
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Offline robert of armstrong

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Re: police
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2008, 04:01:03 PM »
Definitions change from place to place as well.  A Flail, and any other weapons that has a shaft, a length of flexible material (chain, rope, etc.) and one or more stiking instruments (spiked ball(s), metal skull(s), a second shaft (like nunchuks) are prohibited weapon in Canada.  Same goes for any collapsable knife that can be opened and made functional in one hand by centrifical force (ie butterfly knives) or by spring tension or mechanical means (ie switchblade).  It may be in some States as well.

I think there are a couple questions you need to ask:  What am I doing that I feel uncomfortable having to answer this question?  Do I have my weapon(s) for any good reason, such as being on the way to or from a re-enactment or a Faire?  If not, why do I have my weapons with me?  (Becasue they are cool and nobody is going to tell me that I can't carry them is not a good reason)  I think you would be better off not putting yourself in a position where you have trouble anwering the question.  If you have a good reason for having the weapons, then have them.  But if you don't have a good reason for having them on you, then don't have them with you.  When I crossed the border back into Canada after Sterling on Sunday, the Canada Customs guard asked me if I was bringing any weapons into the country.  I told him yes, a bearded axe, a war hammer and a fighting knife, but I had already told him that my business in New York was to go to the RenFest, so it was cool.

I will tell you that, as an Officer, one of the the worst thing you can do is lie to me.  The second is tell me that if I can't tell you what you are doing wrong, then you are leaving.  I am most likely already talking to you becuase you have already done something else wrong.  Police rarely talk to people becasue they are doing the right thing.  If you lie to me, and already in trouble, now you are in more trouble.  Now I am searching you, your car, and everone in it.

Why put yourself in that position?  Unless you have a good (read lawful) and explainable reason, don't carry your weapons around.

And don't make any stupid moves with them if you do, even in jest.  I don't like seeing RIP threads in places like this.
Always on the lookout for my next noble cause.

And because a flail don't need reloading, that's why.

Offline Poldugarian Warrior

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Re: police
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2008, 09:15:09 AM »
A good rule of thumb if transporting your steel to faire, don't wear it or put it in arm's reach in your vehicle in case you have to stop at a store/gas station. But, put it in your trunk. That way if you get pulled over or have to get out. No onw will see you have the weapons and there is no need for them to question you.

 

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