Security with Firearms at Renaissance Faires?

[Cobaltblu]

Have you been to a renaissance faire where the security officers carried firearms in plain view on their person?

I saw some this weekend at a faire and am wondering how common the practice is.

What are your thoughts on the practice?

If they do carry firearms are they concealed or visible?

If they carry firearms and the faire allows peace-tied historical weapons do you think the firearms are there to ensure enough force to stop a patron who draws steel?

Personally I think they are out of place and don't belong because they are contrary to the good-natured/pleasant/celebratory nature and atmosphere of a faire.

Regards,

CB

[Valiss]

Usually one of the Scottish clans are working for faire, and they usually have polearms or swords. 

If you are talking about a modern gun, then only the cops who stop by are carrying them, just like the State Fair.

[Cobaltblu]

Yes I mean the security guards carrying modern firearms (guns).  Perhaps these are off-duty cops working as security.

[Just Randall]

TRF employs sheriff deputies and constables, in uniform.
Drunk people do stupid things.
Drunk people like to fight.
It is not the performers responsibility to deal with drunks, that's what the cops are for.

They also deal with stalkers, thieves and assist with lost children.
They also handle traffic control in the parking lot and on the main road out.

I for one am glad they are there, to remove the small number of troublemakers so that the rest of the patrons can enjoy their day fully.

Cops deal with idiots, because I shouldn't have to.

[GirlChris]

No. No no no no no. We have security, but it's usually just of the "this is a very large human being. Do you really want to mess with him?" type. They have walky-talkies and whistles, but definetly NOT guns.

But then, I'm from Canada.

[eloquentXI]

I have to agree with the Capt. on this. Put alcohol in the mix and people who don't know their limit, and you have people being stupid. Starting fights with other mundanes, or hassling the cast and performers.

We as Rennies, aren't there to start trouble. But not all of the mundanes share that same respect that we do.

I do not have a problem with there being armed security personel on site.

[will paisley]

No. No no no no no. We have security, but it's usually just of the "this is a very large human being. Do you really want to mess with him?" type. They have walky-talkies and whistles, but definetly NOT guns.

Many faires have both.  Security with radios who can call for help and help straighten out misunderstandings, and actual police officers who are armed and can legally arrest people too full of liquid stupidity to know not to mess with very large human beings.

[groomporter]

In accordance with Minnesota's gun carry permit laws MNRF has signs posted at the front gate stating that guns are banned from the site. They usually have an armed officer, or two from the local Sheriff's department stationed near one of the gates, but they do not actually patrol the grounds.

The fair's own unarmed "Safety Services" crew patrols the site (at most they might have some pepper spray, but I don't remember seeing it). Some are in bright red and yellow livery as plainly visible first aid people carrying red & yellow flags on stout 6-foot wooden poles, and others are in plain clothes. All have radios, and occasionally will call the sheriff's officer to help if they have someone they have trouble dealing with. All the beer and wine booths are also supposed to have radios
-----------
I know years ago (late 1980's?) here in the northern wastes heard wild rumors that TRF actually had security with automatic weapons.

[anne of oaktower]

Sad as I am to say this, I can see the need.  A decade ago there probably wasn't a soul among us who had been impacted by terrorism.  Today it is a different story.  Not only do we have drunk 'danes on occasion, but there is also a very real concern whenever and wherever there are large crowds of people present.  It's good to know that there are those who are willing to protect us (if the need arises) while we go about our merry rennie way.

[Al-Nimer]

I don't remember seeing any armed security patrolling Scarby, at least they weren't carrying visible firearms if they were.  I only saw uniformed officers by the First Aid booth.

We were just at CoRF, and there were a lot of armed security, as well as safety officers, patrolling on-site there.  I think this did make the atmosphere a bit different, but with so many people attending in danes, it's probably necessary.

[Lady Amy of York]

I know which faire Cobaltblu was talking about , for i was there also.  Yes there was security officers in yellow shirts, and black pants or shorts  with guns strapped to them.  I personally was happy to see them there.  I hate to say this, but i have been to faires, where people start drinking, and get rowdy  and things get out of hand.    As a parent with a young child along, I was happy to see the  armed security there keeping the crowd under control.  Matter of fact i thought it was the best behave crowd in the last few years, and maybe it had to do  with their being armed security.
   
You have to remember that even though this said faire is in a rural area, we are not to far from  four major cities where sadly shootings, drugs  and gang violence is on the rise. 

At any outdoor event/or even indoor event, you can't be too careful these days, unfortunately. 
And who says it is getting away from the historical, friendly atmosphere of faire.  Do we forget what some of the streets of London , and other small cities were like back in the renaissance days?  There were beggars  and theives, and murderers  back then.   We had the town sheriff and the Queen's or King's guardsmen patroling the streets back then armed with weapons.

So anyway, i am all for having armed security guards.  As the old saying goes " Better safe  then sorry  ."

[Just Randall]

Also remember that TRF has from 15,000 to 35,000 patrons PER DAY.

[PurpleDragon]

TRF employs sheriff deputies and constables, in uniform.
Drunk people do stupid things.
Drunk people like to fight.
It is not the performers responsibility to deal with drunks, that's what the cops are for.

Cops deal with idiots, because I shouldn't have to.

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[groomporter]

Also remember that TRF has from 15,000 to 35,000 patrons PER DAY.

MNRF can do that as well, I wonder what the difference is in the community or attitudes is. Does the nearby patron camping at TRF have a partial effect?

[PurpleDragon]

MNRF can do that as well, I wonder what the difference is in the community or attitudes is. Does the nearby patron camping at TRF have a partial effect?

Paritally, however do the math.

Texas + Beer + Rednecks + Beer + Bodices + Beer + Men in Tights + Beer = Need for Armed Security

[Count Adolfo]

I think I've only ever been to one or two shows that DIDN'T have armed police on site for security purposes.

[Will Gamwell]

To add to Groomporter's comments on MNRF.

In accordance with Minnesota's gun carry permit laws MNRF has signs posted at the front gate stating that guns are banned from the site. They usually have an armed officer, or two from the local Sheriff's department stationed near one of the gates, but they do not actually patrol the grounds.

The County Sheriff's department always has someone near by.  Mostly they are either directly traffic to and from the Festival.  Or just posted to catch drunk drivers.  On occasion they come in to sweep through the parking lots.  Which last year we had a very funny incident where an intoxicated paytron we were trailing out in the parking lot who decided to run from us and ran (quite literally) into one of the deputy's squad cars.

The fair's own unarmed "Safety Services" crew patrols the site (at most they might have some pepper spray, but I don't remember seeing it). Some are in bright red and yellow livery as plainly visible first aid people carrying red & yellow flags on stout 6-foot wooden poles, and others are in plain clothes. All have radios, and occasionally will call the sheriff's officer to help if they have someone they have trouble dealing with. All the beer and wine booths are also supposed to have radios

Most of us aren't allowed to carry cuffs anymore.  Unless properly trained and licensed to do so.
Correction on the staff.  It is 8-foot tall.  And a good majority of the guys spent the money at Starfire to have the weighted halbred end put on the bottom of their pole.
The Information Booth, and the Ticket Booth also have radios.

Click here for an example of a Safety Services officer in "Colors".
http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u4/vyk1345/Fest%2007/?action=view&current=S7300473.jpg

Cheers,
Sean

[groomporter]

Click here for an example of a Safety Services officer in "Colors".
http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u4/vyk1345/Fest%2007/?action=view&current=S7300473.jpg

Cheers,
Sean

We love our MNRF "SS"!

I don't think I've ever even seen them with pepper spray on their belt.

[Valiss]

Yeah, none of our security carry guns.  Like others have said, it's really more along the lines of "Here are bunch of large Scots with polearms who will escort you out if you need them to."   That kinda things.   I don't think there have been any real issues at faire, but I have seen them drag and toss out a few roudy drunks before.  Again, without guns. I do think the cops stop by a couple of times a weekend and walk around.

The way some of you talk makes your faire sound scarey.  I think I'll aviod the Texas faire, lol!

[Will Gamwell]

We love our MNRF "SS"!

I don't think I've ever even seen them with pepper spray on their belt.

And unless there is a change in upper management, you most likely never will see anything like mace/pepper spray, or ASPs.

Yeah, none of our security carry guns.  Like others have said, it's really more along the lines of "Here are bunch of large Scots with polearms who will escort you out if you need them to."   That kinda things.   I don't think there have been any real issues at faire, but I have seen them drag and toss out a few roudy drunks before.  Again, without guns. I do think the cops stop by a couple of times a weekend and walk around.

The way some of you talk makes your faire sound scarey.  I think I'll aviod the Texas faire, lol!

MNRF is pretty good in regards to what the "Safety Services" crew has to deal with.  Most calls are for medicals.  Next in line would be lost kids/parents.  Then unruly paytron(s) (most likely drunk). 
The main reason for the drunk paytrons being so low on our list is that usually by the time we get a call about them it is because they dropped from heat exhaustion.

SS Officer:  "Sir, what have you had to eat and drink today?"
Paytron:  "<insert alcoholic drink(s)>"
SS Officer:  "Any water today sir?"
Paytron:  "No"
SS Officer:  "Any food today sir?"
Paytron:  "I had half a turkey leg about five hours ago."
....

Sean

[groomporter]

The main reason for the drunk paytrons being so low on our list is that usually by the time we get a call about them it is because they dropped from heat exhaustion.

Yeah back when I was a street character it always seem like drunks were a bigger problem on cool days when they weren't sweating it out as fast as they drink it.

[Will Gamwell]

Ah yes!  Those cold rainy days where you get a call about a ver large musclar man without a shirt and wearing faeiry wings, who happens to be causing a scene in a mud puddle (seated in it in fact) because all of the beer booths closed down.  Then takes his mug, scoops up a glass of mud-water and dumps it over his face, mouth open to the skies.

Sean

[PurpleDragon]

Ah yes!  Those cold rainy days where you get a call about a ver large musclar man without a shirt and wearing faeiry wings, who happens to be causing a scene in a mud puddle (seated in it in fact) because all of the beer booths closed down.  Then takes his mug, scoops up a glass of mud-water and dumps it over his face, mouth open to the skies.

Sean

Oh... you've seen me in my mundane patron days have you?? ~ROFLMAO~

[Lady Amy of York]

Ah yes!  Those cold rainy days where you get a call about a ver large musclar man without a shirt and wearing faeiry wings, who happens to be causing a scene in a mud puddle (seated in it in fact) because all of the beer booths closed down.  Then takes his mug, scoops up a glass of mud-water and dumps it over his face, mouth open to the skies.

Sean

Oh... you've seen me in my mundane patron days have you?? ~ROFLMAO~

ROFL..you mean that was you...gee you get around to alot of the faires don't you !  ROFL !

[PurpleDragon]

ROFL..you mean that was you...gee you get around to alot of the faires don't you !  ROFL !

Well, everything EXCEPT the fairey wings would fit the description of what I did some years go.  Nasty weather, HUGE, HUGE, HUGE mud puddle.... took off sword belt, got a running start.. dove in and slid... most exhilerating it was.