Cartridge Pleating with Less Fabric

[Sorcha]

Hi all!  Long time no post!
I'm back with a question about cartridge pleating. 

I'm finally working on a project and the fabric told me it wants to be a dress of a court design.  However I have a less than ideal amount of fabric for a court dress.  For the skirt, I usually use 3 yards and cartridge pleat the skirt using the "three rows, 1" apart in both width and length, starting 6" from the front split" method. 
(Does that make sense??)
This time I have 2, maybe 2.5 yards to work with. 

So what would your recommendation be when working with a third less fabric?  Skinnier pleats?  Starting the pleats further than 6" fron the front?  Something else??

[isabelladangelo]

Why pleat?  Cartridge pleating seems to have been less popular than box pleating anyway.   

Do gores.   Cut out triangles (one triangle going one way on the width of the fabric, the other going the other way) out of the fabric.   Sew them together.   

[gem]

Well, first, take a look at this page on Renaissance Tailor, where she ekes an Elizabethan gown out of 3.5y of fabric. Creative cutting at its finest! You could coax more yardage into the pleated part of your skirt by adding thick guards at the split front--instead of the 12" unpleated skirt fabric, make that guards, and you'll give yourself that much more to pleat.

Second, gores will give you much greater volume at the bottom without needing all the width at the waist. Lots of different ways and sizes to cut the gores. I know I have some different links pinned; I will try to hunt them down later.

If you still need to compress yardage at the waist, how about ordinary gathering? Here's one of Centuries-Sewing's gowns with a gored skirt + gathered waist. It's easy to control the fullness on a gathered skirt. If you don't like the uneven look of traditional gathering, then you can do one row of cartridge pleating to make sure everything is neat and uniform, but you'll still get a softer fall.

Lastly, if you have your heart set on nice fat cartridge pleats, try pleating tape, or padding the pleats with wool. It will bulk up the pleats considerably, meaning they compress down much less when you tighten them. Less compression = more length at the top to work with. Depending on the weight of the fabric, this may or may not be a desirable effect. (Here's a WIP of mine from linen where I used drapery pleating tape; you can see how very *fat* those pleats are!! It would probably work better on a heavyweight fabric like heavier wool or velvet.)

If you can't figure out a "waist management"  treatment that you like, tabs on the bodice can hide whatever method you use so it's *only* a fullness-controlling technique, and not a visible design element.

Good luck!

[Marietta Graziella]

My orangey/rust noble gown skirt was done with less than 3 yards of fabric. It's very doable.

I agree, my skirt is not as full as I'd like it but when the fabric speaks to you, you make it work.  LOL

Come play with us. Maybe we'll have a brainstorm. Plus, I do have drapery tape if you want to try that. 

[operafantomet]

I agree with the others. Gores is your best friend here. Gives you nice width at the hem and less fabric to control in the waist.

But also, if you want cartridge pleats, you can try adding a strip of semi thick fabric on the inside where you plan to do the pleats. If possible, cover it with a fancy fabric, or fold the outer fabric over the added strip. This will give you nice, full pleats even if the pleats themselves are smaller than you use to. However, don't add too much additional fabric if your main fabric is velvet.

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

On average, most Tudor/Elizabethan gowns take 8 to 10 yards, respectively. Fuller Skirting look better Cartridge pleated.


Gores with some Knife pleating  work wonderfully when there is less fabric to work with, for skirting takes up the bulk of the fabric  anyways.

An example of gores with knife pleats from ELIZABETH  R.

http://www.naergilien.info/real-life-research/movies/elizabeth-r-1971/#Sagegreen

[isabelladangelo]

http://elizabethan-portraits.com/Elizabeth_I.htm

Actual portraits of QEI - you'll notice a lot of knife pleating or box pleating.  You'll also see quite a few gored skirts - very few cartridge pleating and that mainly has to do with the desired shape at the time.   

I rarely use more than 6 yards in my Henrican Tudor gowns - the sleeves take up a lot of fabric with those.  Based on extant accounts, most gowns would take the equivalent of 3 1/2 yards  (w/o sleeves) in a gored gown while a full gown (pleated) took about 5 yards without sleeves.  Fabric wasn't made on machines and they were very careful to conserve when possible.  For more information, I highly recommend this site:
http://www.nachtanz.org/SReed/fabuse.html

[gem]

Isabella, thank you for that information! I have often wondered about what seems like the excessive use of fabric in modern garb patterns (7+ yards AND MORE), compared to the examples in places like TUDOR TAILOR, where the gowns are made with far more modest amounts (starting around 3-4 yards). It just didn't seem logical to me, knowing how very expensive fabric was before the Industrial Revolution.

[LadyFae]

I usually start with 5 yards of fabric for my gowns and always have a lot left over.  Of course, I don't use real patterns, so I can't tell you what I really DO use and what I don't.  Anyway, Sorcha is much smaller than I am so I think she'll be fine with the amount that she has!  =)

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

If one is working with fabrics without nap, less yardage can be used. That is because pieces can be drawn going the other way, especially when doing gored skirts. Fabrics with nappy texture  like Velveteens, Corduroy, Velours, require same direction cutting. THAT was one of the first rules of cutting out and sewing I learned at a very young age.

Some, but not all styles of Brocades or Damasks with any type of pattern or texture, require same direction cutting. When I make plain gathered skirts or Farthingales, 3 yards of a 54" wide fabric is all I need. Plaids or other matching(running) type patterns on fabrics require more yardage.

[isabelladangelo]

If one is working with fabrics without nap, less yardage can be used. That is because pieces can be drawn going the other way, especially when doing gored skirts. Fabrics with nappy texture  like Velveteens, Corduroy, Velours, require same direction cutting. THAT was one of the first rules of cutting out and sewing I learned at a very young age.

Some, but not all styles of Brocades or Damasks with any type of pattern or texture, require same direction cutting. When I make plain gathered skirts or Farthingales, 3 yards of a 54" wide fabric is all I need. Plaids or other matching(running) type patterns on fabrics require more yardage.

This is true in modern sewing, but not in period sewing.   Many of the extant garments we have have a gore or panel going the "wrong" way.  It's fun to read Janet Arnold's notes and see how many times this was done.  We *care* about direction now only because we know we can always buy more fabric - it's not something someone spent days on a loom to make plus hours at the spinning wheel to just make the thread.  (If you use a drop spindle, it takes months to make any good amount of thread for knitting or weaving!).  In period, the direction of the fabric didn't matter because the fact you could spend that amount of money to get *that* fabric meant enough.  Conservation was key - not symmetry of the fabric.   Also, one of the period pattern books - I can't think of the name off the top of my head, sorry!- the tailor shows pieces at odd angles to get the max out of the fabric you have. 

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

 Yes, Isabella.

I am aware of the differences between Period sewing and modern sewing, and how fabrics were milled in the 16th century. Fabrics then were very expensive.  Thus getting more bang for the buck was key back then, even for the Upper Nobility and the tailors who sewed for the Royal families of that time.

I also have all of Janet Arnold's book, including Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked.

[operafantomet]

If one is working with fabrics without nap, less yardage can be used. That is because pieces can be drawn going the other way, especially when doing gored skirts. Fabrics with nappy texture  like Velveteens, Corduroy, Velours, require same direction cutting. THAT was one of the first rules of cutting out and sewing I learned at a very young age.

Some, but not all styles of Brocades or Damasks with any type of pattern or texture, require same direction cutting. When I make plain gathered skirts or Farthingales, 3 yards of a 54" wide fabric is all I need. Plaids or other matching(running) type patterns on fabrics require more yardage.

This is true in modern sewing, but not in period sewing.   Many of the extant garments we have have a gore or panel going the "wrong" way.  It's fun to read Janet Arnold's notes and see how many times this was done.  We *care* about direction now only because we know we can always buy more fabric - it's not something someone spent days on a loom to make plus hours at the spinning wheel to just make the thread.  (If you use a drop spindle, it takes months to make any good amount of thread for knitting or weaving!).  In period, the direction of the fabric didn't matter because the fact you could spend that amount of money to get *that* fabric meant enough.  Conservation was key - not symmetry of the fabric.   Also, one of the period pattern books - I can't think of the name off the top of my head, sorry!- the tailor shows pieces at odd angles to get the max out of the fabric you have.

I wanna say yes and no. Key motifs were usually carefully placed out on bigger garments, so there would be symmetry and perfect pattern matching. But in the smaller details it was all about using the leftover fabric. A good example is the 1560s Medici cloak with sleeves. The cloak has carefully spaced out pomegranate pattern, made of two strips of fabric. But the sleeves are really randomly assembled, as far as fabric pattern goes:

http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/workbox/extmenclo3.htm

Anyhow, I agree about period cutting. They really knew their way around saving yardage. I'm always incredibly impressed when I see how carefully pattern pieces was placed on a strip of fabric, so nothing would go to waste. I think Janet Arnold touches upon this, though, that some of the odd angles was done on purpose, for the pieces needing another kind of "stretch". Jennifer Thompson over at Festive Attyre also showed how the direction of the fabric has a lot to say for how much/little cutwork sleeves and pinking frays. Alas Jennifer moved her site and never put up again the article on her Venetian dress. But I remember following her experiments and finding it really interesting how such a "random" detail could have so much to say for the finished result.

[Lady Renee Buchanan]

I don't sew.  Well, very little, as many of you know.  However, I also live in modern times.  If I sewed, or if I purchased an outfit from somebody, I certainly wouldn't want the print to go all higgeley-piggeley, even if it was period.

Being me, all I would be able to think of was "it doesn't match.  It looks like somebody who doesn't know what they are doing made it."  It may not bother others, but personally, I would rather have a less full skirt than have a pattern that isn't symmetrical.

[mollymishap]

Maybe we should ask Sorcha what her goals are for this dress.

If H/A is her thang, then she won't mind some creative cutting.

If she's more into modern aesthetics, then she'll have to limit her choices to whatever the fabric "allows" based on repeats, nap, etc.

So, Sorcha: what does your fabric look like and are you looking for suggestions based on a more H/A construction or are you looking to have the dress be visually pleasing to our modern eyes?

(Personally, I do both:  I try to be as "stingy" as possible with my fabric and I will add patches here and there as they did in period, while at the same time trying to end up with the most visually pleasing pattern-and-nap-going-in-the-same-direction outcome as I can.  It's not always possible, in which case I either save that fabric for a different project or try to hide the differences as much as I can or just do it and be prepared to "defend" the choice in character if someone calls me on it...but believe it or not, that's never happened, so just do what will make *you* happy.)

[Sorcha]

OK.  I started with 3 yards and with conservative cutting of the tabs and bodice I ended up with 2.2 yards for the skirt.   Like LadyFae I usually start with 5 yards and have plenty left.  Also, I don't usually take too much fabric around the waist...  So I thought I'd give the cartridge pleats a go. 
Well I finished pleating and sewing the skirt to the waistband today.    then I put the skirt on Nancy (dress dummy) with all the underthings...    The waist fit but was all wonky, and the bottom was way too narrow.  I had to adjust the hoops so small, just to get it to come together at the forepart...  It threw the whole look off and I may even have trouble walking. 
So...  Ripping all that pleating and sewing out sounds fun   
Gores and some kind of non-cartridge pleating it is!!!!   Luckily, I don't have a pattern on the fabric I have to match.   
I'm still open to ideas with this new direction.  I have PoF I can dig out too.

[isabelladangelo]

You can ignore the measurements on this pattern and how many gores there are.  5 gores will do fine at around 7" along the top (where it says 12") for most people.  As long as you get 5 gores that have 7" along the top, don't worry about the bottom measurement at all.


And yes, this really is all there is to a gored skirt.   Just chalk it out with your measuring tape.