Snarked and Snarking~ How do you handle this?

[Lady Neysa]

I think I should clarify something in my above post that came out wrong.  The person that made the comment may have been an ordinary playtron.   I'm guessing that something at the time made me think they were working there, possibly in a shop,  but I never knew for sure. It wasa long time ago, when I was newer and not as readily able to tell the difference between cast, shop keepers and playtrons.  I don't want it to sound like I was trash talking about my faire! Good heavens  no! I really can't imagine any of our cast doing something like that.  Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

[isabelladangelo]

I find it amusing in a way that everyone thinks it's only the people that are into H/A that are snarks.  Hardly.  I've seen plenty of people that are into more fantastical aspects of costuming that are huge snarks and jerks.  Btw, jerks and snarks are two very different types in my mind.  A snark will joke with friends but won't say anything overtly rude to the person in question.  A jerk will say something rude to the person in question.

Like I said before, some people need to be snarked.  If you think you can get your wedding gown sewn in the style of QEI in a matter of three months and the only thing you've sewn before is a handkerchief..and you even needed help with that?  Yeah, you are fodder for the masses.  It's the Simon type attitude with a need to be blunt.

Is it nice?  No.  But it's also not nice to think that becoming good at sewing and tailoring is easy and that you can just whip up something extraordinary in a matter of a couple of days.   Unless you have been doing costuming or even regularly sewing for years, you are pretty much insulting everyone that has been sewing for years.

As for fantasy sewing and snarking.  I've seen gorgeous fantasy costumes (thinking the redone fairy gown that was a wedding gown) and some really truly terrible ones.  Fantasy costumes are just as fair game to snarks as historical ones are.  Why?  Because it's not about the "periodness" but the "correctness" and the good sewing techniques.  If you see a halloween costume, you know it's bad from the sewing and fabric standpoint.  If you see someone make their own costume based off the halloween one but with great sewing techniques and fabric choice, well, it's far less likely to be snarked.   It doesn't matter nearly as much that it's not period.  Fabric choice and good sewing techniques are key to any outfit H/A or otherwise.  You can have the most gorgeously cut gown  ever but if it's out of a fabric that has known issues (like sheerness and you didn't line it, or frays easily or is polyester...ect) you'll get snarked.  Basically, if you have good fabric, good stitching (not necessarily period but just seams that won't fall apart or look like they'll fall apart), and a decent fit, you probably won't get snarked. 

[ladyecho]

     I want to make one thing perfectly clear before I go on, I am a Dork, not a Nerd. A Dork is an outcast that the masses put up with and a Nerd is a wonka candy that comes in a multitude of flavors! ;P now that that's out of my system.

     I always thought that fantasy characters had cart Blanche  to basically wear whatever they wanted. They are FANTASY characters. Something someone made up (or what history can't scientifically prove, however you want to look at it!) What reference is there to say "fairies didn't wear anything like that back then"? Come on people, who is that petty. But if you want to crush a 5 year olds dream of going to faire as the rainbow fairy princess because you don't think what she has on is right, than there is no hope for you and  with some twist of fate the 5 year olds daddy is 6 feet 8' and doesn't like to see his baby girl crying!     

             (This is just my humorous rant about the thread, I do not wish to upset any rainbow fairy princess 5 year olds or their 6 feet 8' daddy's to get my point across. Be a rainbow fairy  and if I see you at faire i will compliment you profusely!)

[operafantomet]

I'm not a member of any costume societies, I don't think SCA even exist in Norway. So when I wear/make historical garbs or costumes, it's usually amongst friends (who is, bless them, always enthusiastic and gives constructive feedback) or "amatheurs" (who is impressed by anyone who can put together a bodice).

I don't think I'v ever gotten snarky remarks. Most people are highly civil about what they say. This goes for both real-life people and online folks. But as I said before: I'm not into the SCA thing. I keep reading so much negative about how a few people tends to ruin it all. Whereas I should probably experience it for myself to get a truer picture of the situation, I just don't feel like being hammered down by brats who miss a fundamental thing when it comes to costume making: the joy.

I really don't see snarking as positive. If you have something to say, say it in a constructive way! If something is good, point out what's good. It something could be done better, suggest ways of improvement by pointing out exactly what could be done different. No need to belch about it.

And yes, I have been guilty of being snarky towards another costumer. I did apologize to her both in public and in person. I felt awful, and I hope I'll never be that rude and silly again.

[Cateyes]

I was just snarked at Saturday.  I have not been feeling well but I made a 7 hour trip to go to a faire with my cousin.  She was excited and even though I didn't feel well I still wanted to dress up with her. I didn't have the back of the bodice closed all the way so that I would be more comfortable (it was open less than an inch) and some guy comes up to me and TOUCHES my bodice and sticks his finger in the gap (this did not please me or my husband) and proceeds to tell me that to be more historically accurate it should be closed all the way.  I was too shocked to do anything before he moved away with his friends.

[DonaCatalina]

I was just snarked at Saturday.  I have not been feeling well but I made a 7 hour trip to go to a faire with my cousin.  She was excited and even though I didn't feel well I still wanted to dress up with her. I didn't have the back of the bodice closed all the way so that I would be more comfortable (it was open less than an inch) and some guy comes up to me and TOUCHES my bodice and sticks his finger in the gap (this did not please me or my husband) and proceeds to tell me that to be more historically accurate it should be closed all the way.  I was too shocked to do anything before he moved away with his friends.

Rude drunk copping a feel......sorry you had to put up with that darlin.

[PurpleDragon]

I was just snarked at Saturday.  I have not been feeling well but I made a 7 hour trip to go to a faire with my cousin.  She was excited and even though I didn't feel well I still wanted to dress up with her. I didn't have the back of the bodice closed all the way so that I would be more comfortable (it was open less than an inch) and some guy comes up to me and TOUCHES my bodice and sticks his finger in the gap (this did not please me or my husband) and proceeds to tell me that to be more historically accurate it should be closed all the way.  I was too shocked to do anything before he moved away with his friends.

I'd look at this SOB and tell him "If we were trying to be more historically accurate, My husband would be completely justified in running you through for such a rogueish action as touching another mans woman".

[Merry]

Like I said before, some people need to be snarked.  If you think you can get your wedding gown sewn in the style of QEI in a matter of three months and the only thing you've sewn before is a handkerchief..and you even needed help with that?  Yeah, you are fodder for the masses.  It's the Simon type attitude with a need to be blunt.

Is it nice?  No.  But it's also not nice to think that becoming good at sewing and tailoring is easy and that you can just whip up something extraordinary in a matter of a couple of days.  Unless you have been doing costuming or even regularly sewing for years,you are pretty much insulting everyone that has been sewing for years

I disagree.  While making your first dive from the high dive may not be the best choice...kudos for your kahunas     Simon's attitude is unacceptable in ANY situation, but especially at faire. 

I think Any effort should be acknowleged for what it is...an effort.   If a mundane wants to jump off the high dive.... I'll give them a 10 for enthusiasm.  They probably learned a lot from making it and will do better next time.   I don't think it's insulting to the accomplished seamstress.  If you inspire someone to reach a bit beyond their grasp, be complimented.  Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.   To be insulted by it is bordering on snobbery.  (I'm going to get in trouble for this opinion, aren't I)

[Trillium]

Merry, I agree with you totally.  "Simon Cowell" style remarks are never acceptable, it's just plain rude.  Be happy they made an attempt, most likely they will continue to make attempts and get better with practice.  None of us have been perfect from our first attempt.

I had been trying to refrain from posting here but it amazes me that some forum members think it's ok to snark.  Personally, I think it is rude and uncalled for to give unsolicited criticism on someone's garb.  If they ask for advice, fine, give it to them KINDLY.  Also consider the fact that there may be reason for the way an outfit is sewn or left unfinished or for fabrics chosen.

As others have said...."if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all."

[verymerryseamstress]

The fact that anyone in our society thinks that Simon's behavior is acceptable is disturbing to me. 

People NEEDto be snarked?  Are you serious?

What happened to manners, politeness and common courtesy?  My mother taught me that it's impolite to pick on people behind their backs or to their faces - it's rude no matter how you do it. 

Is this REALLY the direction that Americans are going with their behavior, or is this just the attitude of a few select people who thinks it's okay to treat others with such disrespect? 

To their face, behind their back, it doesn't matter - and like I said, "SNARKING' says a whole lot more about the person's character than it says about their ability to make historically accurate clothing.

[Capt Gabriela Fullpepper]

While I must agree with almost 100% of what Simon of AI says, I do not agree in his methods and how he says it. But do not put all the blame on poor Simon, his comments from what I have heard are scripted to a point. They are there to give a good laugh, or anger. As I said I do not agree with how Simon gives feedback, I find his comments far more helpful to an aspiring artist than I do Paula's mindlessness  "Oh you look beautiful tonight in that dress and your hair is perfect for the song and Oh I love those shoes, keep on beltoning the songs out" garbage. While it is good to hear, I as a former musician would rather hear. Man you missed that song tonight, where was your head, up Millie Vanillies talentlessness? to Your sounding like Britnay spears on Crack while standing on her head.

Having been in the music industry, it is a very big Dog eats Dog world. It has nothing to do with how much talent someone really has, but how much money a record company/producer can make. In that indusrty sometimes harsh feedback is what it takes to wake someone up or knock them off their high horse to make them produce the quality of work that everyone knows they can produce.

In today's industry it's not unheard of the sign a band today, make their billion and then dump the artist off tonever never land to never be seen or heard from again.

I do not believe in Snarking and as I said I do agree with almost everything Simon says, just not his methods. He does it for good reason (make people perform better and find their best and he does it for entertainment. A sports couch is very similar. Having played many years of team compatative sports and even single competative sports no one likes to be yelled at, but sometimes it works to wake up the dorment talent hidden inside. Offending someone to hurt feelings or make personal self better or make you think you are better... is WRONG.

[Cilean]

>>What Gem Said
Cilean, I'm *sure* you meant well, but I think it's the entire idea that a total stranger would approach someone and offer unsolicited commentary--however "helpful" the person meant to be--about her garb that bothers most people.  "Attempt to learn what that person was thinking and how I can suggest anything?"  I know that all of us here on the boards *love* to help others with their garb, but for me this crosses the line.  It just seems awfully presumptuous to offer a total stranger my opinion on his/her garb, let alone my "help."<<


My Response:

Actually I what I said was that I would never say something so crass, I guess you missed that part eh?   I was speaking within the context  of the SCA; We have Clothing Guilds and New Comers Meetings, and people come to our meetings for that specific purpose. However, I have found when I am wearing my garb at Faire, people will come up and ask me many questions, including to look at their garb and make suggestions, they are complete strangers yet they seem to think I could help them. Perhaps this has not happened to you, but it does to me quite a bit.

So yep if you ask me? I will do my best to give you accurate information that I know, and I will further, attempt to get you to guilds or groups in costuming to help you to get to your goals.  Whether you are in a Faire or in the SCA or in the International Costumer's Guild, or 'Joan/Joe Shmoe' down the street.  I don't have to know you personally to help you with questions.  I would find that pretty rude that after researching, asking people and taking every class I could for years to attain some level of knowledge (not much mind you but some) I would not give out what I have been shown, because I did not know the person.   

Cilean

[Cilean]

On the Simon thing, I think people have gotten so PC that they do not know how to Critique anymore, and so Criticism has taken it's place.
We were taught how to critique in drama class, it was interesting how the other people in class were uncomfortable with saying good things to help you along, but could blast you without a hint of guilt.

Simon thrives on being blunt, and hurtful perhaps because some people will not 'see' the truth unless it is brutal? I don't know, I think there are better ways to put forth your opinion without the rancor of course ?? How many viewers would they lose if Simon became an actual gentleman?

I bet loads

Cilean

[Margaret]

If they ask for advice, fine, give it to them KINDLY.  Also consider the fact that there may be reason for the way an outfit is sewn or left unfinished or for fabrics chosen.

See, if anyone asks me for help or advise, the first question I as is "What are you after?"  Some may want to go as HA as possible, some may want the look, some may just want to have garb that fits better and doesn't poke or prod.

Advise then goes from there...

Snarking and helping some one make their garb 'better' are two very different things.  Snarking may push people away.  Advising will bring more people over to the wonderful world of garb.

[isabelladangelo]

I found a video of two snarks that I'm pretty sure everyone knows and loves discussing the internet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhmjnYKlVnM

Have fun!