Brewing, Mead-Making, Cordial Chat

[Captain Kilian]

cool!

So where is a good place to order honey from (clover and alfalfa)?

[Captain Kilian]

Well, the first batch of mead and beer are both in the fermenters! I caved and just bought honey at the grocery store, and used a dry meade additive pack that claims to help acidity and provide nutrients.

The beer I am making is a wheat beer (from extracts), and it smelt pretty good in the wort.

Wish me luck!

[Magister]

Kilian:

  Good luck!  Let us know how the additive in the meade works for you. 

All:

I asked about making cordials / loki the other day.  While messing around on the web I ran across this site.  It seems to be a virtual encyclopedia of recipes.  The guy seems to have done his homework!

You can find the site here: http://www.guntheranderson.com/liqueurs.htm

Also... this is just my opinion... but.. I know ALOT of people are have asked for "Loki" recipes.  I've come to the conclusion (just my opinion) that "Loki" is simply a Renn-community name for cordials.  It is made the same way in almost all respects.  So... for all of you asking, "How do I make Loki"... I'd suggest looking up how to make cordials and find recipes that sound good.

[Hoowil]

Well, the first batch of mead and beer are both in the fermenters! I caved and just bought honey at the grocery store, and used a dry meade additive pack that claims to help acidity and provide nutrients.Wish me luck!

Try Costco. 5lb jug of honey runs about $10, a good deal cheaper than the stuff at the store. Its definitely processed, but hey, its cheap and good for practice.

[anne of oaktower]

You can find the site here: http://www.guntheranderson.com/liqueurs.htm

Well, whatdayaknow!  That book he's talking about....Homemade Liqueurs....it's been sitting on my shelf for at least a dozen years, just waiting for me to find the time to pull it out and get started.  LOL! 

[Hoowil]

Ok, I have cider brewing that has already gone a little drier than I want, is there in fact any safe way to stop the fermentation? Or do I have to re-sweeten after it brews out? I've already tried potasium sorbate, but I guess that doesn't kill the yeast once active, just keeps it from multiplying and becoming re-active after sweetening. That's some info that would have been nice to know earlier  .

Also, anyone try using the lever locked, gasket lidded bottles? How well do they hold up under pressure? I've thought about adding more sugar to the cider to sweeten it up, then bottling it into those bottles (as I just gat a bunch for free, gotta love craigslist ). Just want to be sure they won't go boom. Alas, that would also leave no time for clearing before bottling, so a nice heavy sediment layer might result  . Now, am I right in thinking that the CO₂ retension will suffocate the yeast? Or am I totally miss-remembering my brew info from way back when, when I ruined many a batch of beer?

Any help would be most appriciated, and the sooner the better, as the stuff is bubbling away pretty good, and already has a little more bite that I had anticipated.

[DonaCatalina]

You can stop the fermentation process by dropping the temperature below 62 degrees.
It sounds like your fermentation may have been a little 'hot' to begin with.

[Magister]

You can also stop fermentation by using a "yeast killer", or stabilizer such as Potassium Sorbate. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_sorbate

"Also known affectionately as "wine stabilizer", potassium sorbate produces sorbic acid when added to wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, potassium sorbate will render any surviving yeast incapable of multiplying. Yeast living at that moment can continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. When a wine is sweetened before bottling, potassium sorbate is used to prevent refermentation when used in conjunction with potassium metabisulfite. It is primarily used with sweet wines, sparkling wines, and some hard ciders but may be added to table wines which exhibit difficulty in maintaining clarity after fining."

You can buy it for cheap at any home brew or wine making store.  Obviously online as well.

[Hoowil]

I've tried the potasium sorbate. In 36 hours I've gone from a buble every 2-3 seconds to one ever 30 seconds or so, so its definitely slowing down, but I had hoped to stop it where it was. It took five days brewing to reach a point I was happy with, not to strong, still with a good apple flavor, but a noticable kick. So it fermented fast, and while I haven't tried it in the last 24 hours or so, I worry with the speed of the process that it'll be much drier and stronger than I had wanted by the time its stopped.

On the bright side, I found that glass gallon jugs like you can sometimes get juice in fit my airlock just about perfectly, so I've got a couple gallon 'carbouys'. This experiment is only a gallon, so if I can't save it by resweetening after it does stop I can chalk it up as a learning process. I'd rather not, but if it be, then it be.

[Magister]

Hoowil:

  Unfortunately, as the article explains, the Potassium Sorbate doesn't kill the active yeast cells.  It just stops it from reproducing.  So... anything thats still kicking will continue to convert the sugars to ethyl-alcohol. 

  The suggestion to drastically reduce the temperature of the batch is also a good one.  Bringing the liquid temperature below 7C / 45F should kill any of the still active yeasts.  Different types of wine yeasts have different tolerance ranges.  For instance Red Star Premier Cuvee yeast can withstand temperatures as low as 45F. 

   Also... as the alcohol increases in the wine or mash the tolerance temperature decreases.  For example at 14% alcohol the temperature can change by as much as 8 degrees.

   You can find some of the tolerance temperatures on the different yeast descriptions here: http://www.leeners.com/wineeast.html

   

[Hoowil]

For instance Red Star Premier Cuvee yeast can withstand temperatures as low as 45F. 

Hmm, that happens to be the exact yeast I used.

I just tasted the stuff, and I wish it had kept more apple flavor, and a little more sweetness, but its not bad. I'll try to chill it tonight and sweeten it tomorrow. Good thing I have a nice cold fridge. Now I better be able to fit it in there 

[Captain Kilian]

I think I am going to try and find a Texas (local) bee farmer, see if I can buy honey directly from them, or get info on where to get their goods. Many Mead recipes call for alfalfa honey, which just doesn't seem to be available at the stores. Has anyone else ever had luck with such direct purchase attempts?

[Magister]

Kilian:

  I think many of us have bought directly from Apiaries, or at least the farmer who hauled their stuff to the market.  You can usually work out good deals with them... especially if you tell them you are making meade.  I know a few that will cut you a deal if you bring them back a bottle or two.  I personally use a local seller here in Orlando... for local bee pollen and honey.

  The trick is usually finding them in the first place.  You can sometimes find them under "beekeeper" or "apiary" in the phone book.  However, I would suggest contacting your local chapter of the Texas Beekeepers Association. 

You can find more information here: http://www.texasbeekeepers.org

Also a few Texas places I found (No clue if they are any good):

  Tule Creek Apiary: 7917 County Rd N Tulia, TX 79088-6210 Phone: (806) 668-4414

  Saul Creek Apiary:  PO Box 928 Seguin TX, 78155 - http://www.saulcreekapiary.com

Good luck... but you shouldn't have any problems.  Texas is one state that has no shortage of apiarists. 

One side note.. raw honey.. or unprocessed honey like what you will typically get directly from the farmer does require considerable more work skimming off the debris in the honey (dirt, sticks, leaves, bee parts).  The store bought stuff is considerably cleaner as it's obviously been processed before it gets to the store shelf.  Be prepared to boil the honey in water for at least 45 minutes to an hour skimming the top with a strainer as the stuff bubbles up.  Tedious yes... but well worth the added flavor of using it in my opinion.

[Captain Kilian]

Yeah, since I used 2 lbs of raw wildflower honey, I did a lot of skimming, but I only boiled it for 15 min or so...(it was the compromise suggested in charlie papazian's book). Waiting is killing me on the mead, as I will not know if I've done well for months!

Any suggestions on how to not go insane over that bit? LOL

[Hoowil]

I make myself a little compromise on the waiting: Anything that doesn't make a full bottle, I drink.  Its not quite the aged finished product, but hey, its yummy. Also, I'm trying to wait at least six months to start drinking, but there are people who don't wait nearly that long. Also, if you don't drink too fast, do one batch immediately after the first, slowly drink the first over the time it takes for the second to age, and there you go.