Noble Class garb for children

[Friar Rohn the Chronicler]

We've been working on making a pair of new suits for my 11 yr. old nephew for the upcoming renaissance faires for Oklahoma, Kansas and Texas. Most kids at the faire's dress pirate or merchant class, so we decided to have him go garbed as noble class. It has turned out to be a pretty fun family project. Some of the hardest parts of the project has been finding the right fabrics and then having them made into a doublet and slops. The first suit will be blue and the second will be green. We chose a designer out of Texas. She seeemed to be the only designer that welcomed doing completely customized suits instead of the usual off the rack costumes offered by most renaissance websites. Here's a link to her eBay store:


This is the initial design I photoshopped and sent her as a workprint......



She sent these photos yesterday before boxing up the suit for shipping.....







The gold brocade material isn't really that shiny on the brocade (it always depends on what type of digital camera used) and this is more what it's detail looks like is natural light.....



We're also having a custom matching belt and baldric made from Blackbeards Creations along with ordering a "jeweled collars of office" from Sapphire and Sage and then finishing the suits with a pair of knee high boots from the House of Andar.

How do you think that it came out?

[Kate XXXXXX]

Coo!  And dead cool!  Nicely done.

I'm surprised you had difficulty getting it custom made, as there are several excellent custom workers here on the board.

[Friar Rohn the Chronicler]

I'm surprised you had difficulty getting it custom made, as there are several excellent custom workers here on the board.

Thanks for the compliments.

You have a good point, the issue regarding who we chose to do the suits hinged on the amount of time it took to create the suits. When we first decided what style (Spanish noble class), several of the local garbers seemed against a noble class suit for a preteen. Mainly due to the personal cost involved and natural growth (when he outgrows the suits, we will donate them to the lady that rents garb at the Castle of Muskogee). Most local seamstresses that design for the Oklahoma faires are usually overloaded by requests and repairs from the local playtrons. Many took the time for advice on materials. Perhaps the most valuable advice was given to me from a local woman who garbs for her 4 boys and husband. She advised our family to keep away from "soft fabrics" and look through upholstery stores and outlet stores for remnants. Plus the descriptions for search really helped (damask, chenille,  jacquard, and medallion). 
Most of the designers we contacted said since they were backlogged......6-8 months. Midnight Breeze (Virginia) kept in good email contact, and we never had any problems when we requested changes in the design. So, we're fairly pleased with the first suit.
Now finding the accessories, that's been chore. We didn't want the usual stuff found online. Most of it seems to come from the same source. Some of his add-on's came from online and some came from expanding my searching through various antiquities auctions out of Europe (I collect antique chess sets as a hobby), we eventually found a really unique tankard out of Sweden and had it restored.

Friar Rohn

[Lady Rosalind]

This suit looks great! I'll bet he looks great, and really enjoys it!

As the mom of a 14-year-old boy who plays a noble at our faire (we're both on cast), I can definitely understand why you got advice from others to maybe not dress a preteen as nobility if you are a playtron.

They grow out of stuff almost as fast as you can make it!   

Let's see: My son's feet grew two sizes in about 8 weeks (from a 10 to a 12! And he wondered why I wouldn't let him buy boots this year... ).  He grew 4 inches taller this summer, and not symmetrically through the legs... and he grew just big enough around that he continually popped buttons off of his doublet all through the entire run of our faire (which stretched out to 4 weeks, due to a rain postponement.) I had to make him a new pair of pants Sunday night of our opening weekend (Labor Day weekend), as his others were too short. By then end of the faire, the doublet was far too short for him.

Noble garb is expensive. I'm sure that those who maybe hesitated were worried that your nephew would grow out of the garb before it was finished, or could be worn. It happens, especially with boys.  With girls, you just build in a deep hem, and larger seams on the gown, and it will last awhile. With boys, you can't really make a doublet or pants longer... 

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

Boys are harder to garb than girls by far.

When doing  garb for boys, I work in enough ease in the shoulders and side seams to let out when needed. Venetians(baggy pants) are easier to make just a bit larger to accomodate growth. Which is why doing a Doublet without sleeves is better. Shirts can be made to be a size or so larger for that flouncy look.

The Elizabethan ensemble that I did for my Granddaughter in 2004 was able to be worn for 3 seasons. I made it large enough for her to grow into. She happens to be tiny in build anyway. She's almost 12, a bit taller at 4'6", and now getting into a Girls Size 10 clothes.

[Kate XXXXXX]

I wondered if it was a backlog problem...  Most of the good garb makers do get booked up early, and you need to book your slot well in advance for something complex.  I like lots of notice so I can book the sewing time for kids as close to the event as possible.  The little so&so's don't half grow at inappropriate moments!

I keep thinking that when I get some slack time, I'll make something using my (now almost 14) son as a model...  But it's too late!  The Giant Mutant Ninja Teenager is now 5'10", takes a size 15 1/2" collar shirt, and a 34" waist in trousers.  Men's medium/large in most things, and a UK size 8 1/2 shoe.  He's the average size and weight of a fit European male adult, and he'll only be 14 on Wednesday!  I face at least 4 more growing years, probably 5, at up to one and a half inches per year.  Geep! 

[Friar Rohn the Chronicler]

So many responses.....

... and he grew just big enough around that he continually popped buttons off of his doublet all through the entire run of our faire (which stretched out to 4 weeks, due to a rain postponement.) I had to make him a new pair of pants Sunday night of our opening weekend (Labor Day weekend), as his others were too short. By then end of the faire, the doublet was far too short for him.

Noble garb is expensive. I'm sure that those who maybe hesitated were worried that your nephew would grow out of the garb before it was finished, or could be worn. It happens, especially with boys. 

We were somewhat prepared for that. You can't see from the photos but she make the lacing's and grommets along the sides of the doublet for future growth.

You are correct that dressing Noble Class can be expensive. We more or less allotted a certain amount when we decided to make the suits. It mostly has stayed within the budget. The only thing that we splurged a bit on was his tankard. We looked all over online, most were pewter with Celtic inlays. None really stood out. But then I came across a tankard out of a Swedish antiquities auction (estimated age....170-90 years old...made around 1820). When it finally arrived, it was heavily tarnished inside and out from age, the handle was loose and the interior had a fairly thick layer on the bottom with sediment from who knows how many years Euro wine.

I couldn't possibly have my nephew drink out of that.

So I took it to one of our local museum people to check out the paperwork and then I committed the ultimate sacrilege......I told the curator I wanted it cleaned and restored. Oh Gawd....I'm too old to be lectured.

Oh well, here's how it looks now and I also found some fairly matching tableware out of Italy.

Boys are harder to garb than girls by far.

The Elizabethan ensemble that I did for my Granddaughter in 2004 was able to be worn for 3 seasons. I made it large enough for her to grow into. She happens to be tiny in build anyway. She's almost 12, a bit taller at 4'6", and now getting into a Girls Size 10 clothes.

Absolute stunning work on that dress. I hope she appreciated the time and effort you put into it. I'll have to find one of the photos of my niece's First Communion dress photos out of the archive disks. She had three versions, a long and short sleeve and a third one that was more of a ivory gold material. Usually someone asks why three dresses. She had her First Communion with her classmates here in states (we treat the occasion like going to a Easter play). A second down in Mexico for her grandmother's side of the family and then a third in Spain for her grandfather's side of the family. I didn't go to the last two, but the photos of the cathedrals were outstanding. Ericka ended up wearing the gold one to the RenFaire for a year or two. The other two are vacuum sealed in plexiglas cases for her children someday.

The Giant Mutant Ninja Teenager is now 5'10", takes a size 15 1/2" collar shirt, and a 34" waist in trousers.  Men's medium/large in most things, and a UK size 8 1/2 shoe.  He's the average size and weight of a fit European male adult, and he'll only be 14 on Wednesday!  I face at least 4 more growing years, probably 5, at up to one and a half inches per year.  Geep! 

My best advice is to quit mixing the anabolic steroids in his Frosted Flakes. After a while, it can no longer pass as a "sugar suppliment".

Friar Rohn

[Kate XXXXXX]

My best advice is to quit mixing the anabolic steroids in his Frosted Flakes. 

Friar Rohn

Giggle...

He hardly eats breakfast cereals...  Typical start to the day is a home made bananananana smoothie: 2 large ripe bananananas, half a pint of milk, a teaspoon of vanilla extract, zizzed to a smooth thick gloop.  Some days he has toast as well.  He has to watch the hard foods at the moment because he has tramlines on his upper teeth.  They should come off again in November.

He takes a round of sandwiches, 2 portions of fruit (usually fresh, but sometimes dried or canned in fruit juice), and a cookie of some sort.  he'll grab a round of peanut butter and some more fruit to fill the gap between school and dinner, and then have a full portion of dinner and desert, followed by more bread & something latter before bed...

90% of the food cooked in this house is from fresh raw ingredients as I have to watch fat and gluten intakes, and the hubby is a Type 1 diabetic.  We generally have a disgustingly healthy diet, and this is what keep him growing, I fear!  We have at least one mediaeval dish per week, too!   

I do sew regular clothing for him, but the chance to make something fun for a kid is never to be missed.  Not renaissance, but these were fun to do: 1880's Royal Artillery of Foot uniforms in miniature!





This last shows the uniform in adult version.  The boys were five and seven.

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

Kate!! Just beautiful!!!

You and I are of similar minds when doing Adult clothing in miniature!   

A few examples of Children's garb when I worked at the local Costume Shop here in town before breaking out on my own over  3 years ago...

The Front view with closures from Pillaged Village.

Back view

Made from scraps of fabrics from the back room. I took an older SIMPLICITY pattern and redrafted it to look more like an Elizabethan Doublet. The Venetians have adjustable leg bands with ribbon ties and elastic waist. The Shirt is drafted from the Alter Years Adult pattern in Boys sizes Small to XL.

What some trim and buttons can do to make a noble ensemble for a Boy..

[Kate XXXXXX]

One of the great things about kids stuff is that you can make amazing things out of quite small remnants...  Especially when you know enough about fabrics and how they behave to be able to make an informed decision about whether to be religious about grain line...   

I love doing stuff for kids, but it annoys me that people expect the smaller sizes to cost a lot less.  Yes, you can save on fabrics, but the amount of work is almost the same!  Especially on the more elaborate pieces.

The good Friar's kit seems to be nicely made, and reasonably historically accurate.  If it also came in at a good price for the work involved, that is excellent, and gives us another name to conjure with when all the makers on the board are busy.  I think my only criticism of the outfit is the Big Shiny Metal Grommets!  I'd have preferred a nice invisible hook closure, but you all know how I start frothing at the mouth about grommets... 

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

I concur with you Kate regarding costs for Children's Noble garb.

An adult Nobleman's ensemble that consisits of a Lined Doublet, Lined detachable sleeves with ties, Paned Slops or Venetians, Detailed Shirt with figure 8 ruffs, llined Cloak, and a Hat can range from $850 to $1,500. That includes the fabrics, trims, other embellishments, and labor. There is a lot of time that goes into such an ensemble. The more historically accurate the ensemble is, the more labor time involved and costly.

The Nobleman's Ensembles I see at the Bristol Renaissance Faire are worth $1,500 and up. As do the clothing for the Noblewomen.

A child's ensemble, like that of an adult, would cost less by half or more; depending on how much embellishment was needed.

When I was working at the costume shop, I did a Royal ensmeble for a Boy and Girl for a client for an out of state  festival that cost $500 each. That was in 2004!!! My granddaughter's fabric and materials alone for her ensemble cost $237 in 2004. The finished value would have been over $700!!!

[Kate XXXXXX]

I do tend to wonder what Ninya charged for this little lot...

http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/middleclasstowerboy.html

http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/Princesselizabeth.html

http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/Edward.html

More than a handful of farthings and groats, for sure!   

[Capt Gabriela Fullpepper]

I do tend to wonder what Ninya charged for this little lot...

http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/middleclasstowerboy.html

http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/Princesselizabeth.html

http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/Edward.html

More than a handful of farthings and groats, for sure!   

I have always admired the dress on the 2nd link.

http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/Princesselizabeth.html

Very beautiful

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

It wouldn't surprise me if the Princess Elizabeth  ensemble was $1,500 to start for  all the pieces and lovely work.

[Friar Rohn the Chronicler]

The two boys outfits are really cute. It reminds me when Alexei was around four and I located a traditional sailor suit that was from the 1940's. It was cute but hot to wear because it was solid wool, plus to be honest.....boys back then must have well trained bladders. The front portion had a square type of button enclosure (like a big flap) and the backside had a lacing that would tighten the waist instead of using a belt. We still have the suit but in a Plexiglas case that fits into a vacuum sealed enclosure. That way, many of the favorite clothes can be saved for their children someday. I know that my sister-in-law has saved the two Communion dresses, her first little Laura Ashley cape, I don't know how well that little mink stole will fair and some others.

Here's a few old scans from back when Alexei was four and a couple of one of his sister's First Communion dresses...

       

I checked out some of those links, really high quality garb. My favorite was this Prince Edward suit. It must have taken months just to locate the fabrics.

http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/PrinceEdward.html

We finally got the first suit shipped to us yesterday, it's wonderful. Designed exactly the way we requested and has plenty of growing room. The slops are very sturdy and to give it a little more venting, she did not use any stuffing like what is normally used on most of her designs and she used unwrapped fishing line on the interior to allow the pants to be more breathable. She added bottom cuffs to fit down into the boots better and a extra set of grommets on the top of the outer shoulders to attach the chains of office. We'll have Alexei try it on this weekend.

Friar Rohn