Problems with the community fire

[Tanyor]

Only thing is that I don't think the enforce the mirror tag. And most of the shiny happy people show up while we are at faire. So they don't pay squat.
They just drive threw the parking lot to the camp site.

Paying 30 would just eat us alive. I'm sure there not paying. I've seen them even set camp up in parking lots with fires and their car's blasting rap or techno.

I was one of those kids in high school, Not at trf but we had a camping place and you paid by dropping money into a drop box. we didn't pay.

It was a place to get drunk and make fools of ourselves without supervision. And we didn't get give a rat shiny hiny about other campers.

[Zaubon]

Yes, but the ones who do can have you arrested and can successfully sue the Faire itself.

on what grounds? you won't officially work for the faire.

In Texas it's "Impersonating a Peace Officer" and it's a felony.

[CahirDochartaigh]

there are some good and bad ideas being thrown around here. but randal's post was the most sobering.

what about making people buy tickets to the faire as well as pay for camping? didn't that used to be the situation in the past (i've heard it mentioned here before)? i know for a fact that the huge group of ravers that camped next to us last year had no intention of going into the faire. seems that might get rid of em. and if it doesn't, then the faire will make money off of them regardless.

[LadyTrinn]

I remember having to prove I had tickets at the camping gate, or buy them there if I didn't, before there was a charge for camping. Since paying to camp, I have never been asked to show my tickets. I think initiating that rule again would do quite a bit in keeping the unsavory's out....not all of them of course, but a fair amount. I believe it would be a start.

[MacLaren]

I'm still undecided. It was an unpleasant incident. I was on a rant.

Still, management needs to get a firm hold on the insanity there. It would be a great time for all of the clans to get together at a great fire and socialize. Why do we need to put up with punks? I'd gladly kick the bejeebers out of one, even two or three, but I'm not willing to go to jail for it. TRF needs to get a handle on the situation, plain and simple.

This is a critical situation, and needs to be  handled in a stern manner. Raise my cost a bit, fine. Require a ticket to get in, fine. gate/fence off the camp, fine. Something needs doing. I'll gladly sign a petition if it's worded properly and there is support from all of us.

JMO

Also, I never got checked for a ticket going in. I don't know who was turned away, but I wasn't.

[ScoutColt]

If your gonna require a ticket to get into camping, you better be ready to sell them at the camping gate. Mind you it will never happen considering how much money they would lose.

90% of the time I don't go into faire. I camp because my clan needs a cook and my friends work/playtron inside and then come out afterwards. Are you so ready to cast out those of uf who make the place better just to get rid of some of the problem children?

And on top of that your ideas of requiring a ticket won't stop the "bad crowd" from getting in. They will just end up dropping their friends off in regular and hiking their one to two tents in, or sneaking in, whereas the good people (I include myself in good people for this particular instance) won't break the rules to do so.... now you've kicked out some quality people while still allowing the trash in.

Alot of comments here are bordering elitist. Is it really worth it to hurt the people you know and the people that can't afford to go in but CAN afford to come camp, socialize and make the outside experience better, just so you don't have to change how things work for you?

The answer that hurts none of the original rennies is simple, but nobody is willing to make the change or take the effort upon themselves, instead wanting TRF to do it.

Organize.

You have a problem with ravers camping nearby, great, so everyone needs to get together and arrange to park ALL vehicles in a block pattern around a specific designated area where ALL clan and faire friendly groups will set up. Now you have a large buffer of vehicles between us and the raveer crowd. THEN, they can't come into our camps and do what they want. The police will stop that... in their own camps they can be retarded as they like, but in others, we have the right to say "no". As for the bonfire... crap on it. Who cares if they shut it down... who cares if its full of ravers... if we're all centralized and next to one another instead of spread across all creation... we can make our own bonfire which would have a larger amount of drummers, performers, and civilized folk....

Please don't wait for the "establishment" to fix our problems. We do that now with the government and now we're possibly paying 700 billion dollars to fix things... why would TRF be any different? They want whats best for them, not us.

If we want the problem solved, WE need to do something about it that is within our legal abilities, and then maybe TRF will see that we are trying to fix a problem instead of just asking them to, and help us out.... because so far, all the solutions are pretty much saying "king george please spend or lose money to make us happy".

I'm done ranting. And please, don't take offense... It just ruffles my feathers because we rennies are ALL very capable at doing anything and everything, and WE should be able to fix this without help but we (including myself) aren't putting the effort into it, just the mouthwork.

Scout

[Lord Duelist]

there are some good and bad ideas being thrown around here. but randal's post was the most sobering.

what about making people buy tickets to the faire as well as pay for camping? didn't that used to be the situation in the past (i've heard it mentioned here before)? i know for a fact that the huge group of ravers that camped next to us last year had no intention of going into the faire. seems that might get rid of em. and if it doesn't, then the faire will make money off of them regardless.

How about this, campers either:

• pay $40 per vehicle (or the price of a weekend pass plus the base camping fee) minimum, which includes one weekend pass, with the option to purchase more if desired; or
• if it's Saturday night, the cost goes down to $31 (camping fee plus one ticket at gate price)
• pay $10 per vehicle (or whatever the new base camping fee is) with proof that tickets have already been purchased. Either physical possession of the tickets, or the name the tickets are under at will call (checked on the spot).

...with adjustments for Thanksgiving weekend.

Yes, this means all tickets will have to be handled through will call, an inconvenience for sure, and I'm sure someone sees a hole in it as well.

It's too easy for someone to say one of their camping buddies has their tickets. To continue to allow that, might "work" if the people doing the checking simply don't take that as an answer from anyone appearing to be under, say, 25, but I don't want to see real rennies who appear to be that young get screwed over by an unfortunately necessary crackdown. Thus the reason I put "work" in quotes.

If the problem is people crashing the campgrounds during the day while faire is going on, then I think the solution lies in closing that hole. Enforce the mirror tag, either by a manned checkpoint or spot checking vehicles and towing those who are not in compliance.

If your gonna require a ticket to get into camping, you better be ready to sell them at the camping gate. Mind you it will never happen considering how much money they would lose.

90% of the time I don't go into faire. I camp because my clan needs a cook and my friends work/playtron inside and then come out afterwards. Are you so ready to cast out those of uf who make the place better just to get rid of some of the problem children?

My plan only requires one ticket purchased per vehicle. That may not be enough to keep the ravers out, but it's certainly a start. I think the same ravers who would have no problem paying $10 will balk at $40+.

And on top of that your ideas of requiring a ticket won't stop the "bad crowd" from getting in. They will just end up dropping their friends off in regular and hiking their one to two tents in, or sneaking in, whereas the good people (I include myself in good people for this particular instance) won't break the rules to do so.... now you've kicked out some quality people while still allowing the trash in.

If they don't have the camping permit, their vehicle should get towed. I can only imagine how much the hike to the nearest gas station would suck for them...

You have a problem with ravers camping nearby, great, so everyone needs to get together and arrange to park ALL vehicles in a block pattern around a specific designated area where ALL clan and faire friendly groups will set up.

It's a great idea in theory, and I wish you the best implementing it. I have my doubts that will work in practice; I would not mind being proven wrong, however.

[eldatari]

I like the idea of a petition, but I do think it needs to be worded stronger.  It also needs to point out how doing something about the situtation will not hurt the bottom line, maybe even help it.  I will gladly sign a petition.  One suggestion about getting it signed would be to have it at the RF meet and greet at the POW everyday.

In my opinion, the by far best ideas are to go back to requiring a ticket to camp and to greatly increase the security presence.  My husband suggest that they have a dozen police officers at the fire circle.  They also need to card anyone that looks underage and arrest the ones that are.  Moving the camping check point beyond the parking area during the day isn't a bad idea either.

It may take a year or two but once the word gets out that TRF isn't the place to have a free for all party, then it will start to calm down.

[LadyTrinn]

If your gonna require a ticket to get into camping, you better be ready to sell them at the camping gate. Mind you it will never happen considering how much money they would lose.


Scout

They have done it before....in fact, if memory serves, they stopped selling tickets at the camping gate when they started charging for camping.

[ScoutColt]

Oh, I agree that it would be hideous to implement, but alot of the people that have problems with the ravers, have problems because of "their" location.

We camp way out by the rogues because the ravers want to be near the bonfire. It's our solution for "our" camp, but it could easily work for everyone else, but it requires teamwork on the parts of the clans etc... hard to do.

And I don't mind a slight bump in fees. I would rather see a season pass for camping for say 80$ for a vehicle, and then for those without said pass in their window, a 10 dollar per head charge... but thats only if TRF will handle it. But we do all realize theres no way they are going to hire more people to patrol. You gotta admit, none of us are going to stop camping, so they aren't losing our money in any large amount, and if they did hire more people, they've now lost money on the ravers AND the fees to pay more people.... and not only that, good people with a lil bit of substance, or those that may take donations for the lovely loki we all like, have a higher chance of getting busted... that option only hurts King george and us rennies.

My only other solid suggestion to rid the world of TRF from ravers, is WATERBALLOONS. You can't trace them (if your sneaky)... they fry electronics... they make people cold and miserable.... and ravers will never go to the cops about it because they have so many illegal things on them or in them it's sad.

[ScoutColt]

If your gonna require a ticket to get into camping, you better be ready to sell them at the camping gate. Mind you it will never happen considering how much money they would lose.


Scout

They have done it before....in fact, if memory serves, they stopped selling tickets at the camping gate when they started charging for camping.

So... they used to before they realized they could make more money by not doing so... this is kinda just backing up my whole "TRF doesn't care about us... just our money" theme right? :-)

Besides... that would just mean ravers not only pay 5-6 bucks more (woodforest bank) to get into the campgrounds, but THEN they'd be allowed in faire too! Eeeeeew.

[LadyTrinn]

If your gonna require a ticket to get into camping, you better be ready to sell them at the camping gate. Mind you it will never happen considering how much money they would lose.


Scout

They have done it before....in fact, if memory serves, they stopped selling tickets at the camping gate when they started charging for camping.

So... they used to before they realized they could make more money by not doing so... this is kinda just backing up my whole "TRF doesn't care about us... just our money" theme right? :-)

Besides... that would just mean ravers not only pay 5-6 bucks more (woodforest bank) to get into the campgrounds, but THEN they'd be allowed in faire too! Eeeeeew.

No offense but I wasn't correlating my comment with your theme...I was simply telling you they have done it in the past. I have no idea why they stopped.

[Tanyor]

I like the water balloon idea. Good stuff. But what if we miss.

I just think we need to take them back by force if necessary. last year wasn't there a kid who got killed along the side of the road just away from faire who was missing for a few days.

I think we just need to tell them to leave in a large group. let them know they are not welcome. If they don't have a vehicle tag warn them to leave or the sheriff will be called. Don't say your security or nothing.

First year I was camping I came back to a tent was being used for a little hide in go seek with body parts. And found my bedding soiled.
told them to get out nicely.

2nd year my folding chairs in my tent came up missing.

But was camping by myself a a few others.

I can't afford a hotel on top of everything else. So I have to deal with camping.

[LadyJessica]

Years ago, before the big bonfire, when I first started camping before I knew anyone out there except the group I was with...Chaos or Camp Boner, I can't remember, had 10x10 tarps set up in a circle with a chained walkway up to the entrance.  There were guys walking around it as if they were guarding it and two guys at the front entry way.  I could hear the drums pounding and the flames from the bonfire and the bursts of fire as the eaters let go of a mouth full of fuel.  I walked up to the two guys and asked what was going on in there and they said it's a private party and I was not allowed unless I had an invite.  I think we could do something like this if we all got together.

[ScoutColt]

Years ago, before the big bonfire, when I first started camping before I knew anyone out there except the group I was with...Chaos or Camp Boner, I can't remember, had 10x10 tarps set up in a circle with a chained walkway up to the entrance.  There were guys walking around it as if they were guarding it and two guys at the front entry way.  I could hear the drums pounding and the flames from the bonfire and the bursts of fire as the eaters let go of a mouth full of fuel.  I walked up to the two guys and asked what was going on in there and they said it's a private party and I was not allowed unless I had an invite.  I think we could do something like this if we all got together.

Exactly. Dear lord between all of us rennies we have to have at least 3 miles of tarp and enough awnings to hold our own three ring circus.

Oh, and something to be said for the "we'll call the sheriff if you don't have a window tag".... they already steal from us. I can only imagine we'd have twice as many broken windows and missing window tags if we used that line... not to mention maybe they'd call the sheriffs on US then... and well, if we're gonna follow the rules... they should be followed by everyone... (at least thats most police officers thinking)

If we incite them... they will win. They care about the party. Parties are all over. If they get locked out of this one they will move on. We have TRF this time of the year. This is our ONLY avenue for a good portion of the year. Therefore we have something to lose and they don't... they will always be able to one up us when it comes to fighting dirty, because jail, getting booted out, etc... doesn't hurt them in the long run of things. And if we get into it with them... we will be punished too. It's how the system works.