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opinion please - ethics

Started by Blushing, March 12, 2009, 05:44:25 PM

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Blushing

Well, at least I think it's a matter of ethics ... or maybe just fairness.

I take a lot of photos at faire, especially of friends.  One friend loved a photo I took of her and her boyfriend kissing, with faces hidden by her hat.  She asked if she could have a copy of it to frame and use on MySpace.  No problem.

She entered it in a photo contest and won first prize in the category- a bunch of faire tickets and two collectable mugs.  It's under her name of course, including the Web site featuring all the winners.

I'm rather upset, and while I know she needs the free tickets for faire this year, I'm not sure how much I should push her for the mugs.  (My entry in to faire is already covered.)  I also don't know if I should contact the photo judges, partly because that would hurt my friend.  And honestly, it wasn't the greatest photo I've ever taken, it wasn't even one of the better photos from the faire trip (which is why I'm so surprised it won).

Any thoughts?
~All human activity lies within the artist's scope~

Cobaltblu

Well I assume the photo contest said that the submitter had to have shot the photograph and if that was the case she doesn't have ethics.

I would show the photo contest people the original file (if possible) and tell them that she lied about being the photographer.  Or you could extort the prize she won, or some of it, from her.

Regards,

CB
Click on my website icon on the left to view my photo album of garb and items.

Blushing

Thanks.

It doesn't say point-blank in the rules that submitter had to be the photographer.  That me be remedied in the next contest!  However, the rules did say that by entering you are surrending the photo to becom the property of the faire. And that winners may be asked to provide original negatives or transparencies.

That is what upsets me the most.  My photo technically is no longer mine.
~All human activity lies within the artist's scope~

Cobaltblu

It IS technically yours since your friend had no right to give ownership of something she didn't own in the first place.

You can email the contest people if you like.

Regards,

CB
Click on my website icon on the left to view my photo album of garb and items.

LadyDracolich

Personally, I think it depends on how far you want to push it.  You still own the photo in that you have the negatives/ original.  I would certainly let your friend know that what she did was wrong and unethical.  But, if you value the friendship, I wouldn't contact the faire b/c that will cause no end of troubles for the friendship and my end it all together.  The least she could do is give you the mugs since you did take the photo.  But be sure to tell her how you feel.  She may have assumed that you wouldn't mind. 

Good luck!
I don't know what you've heard, none of it is factual, but it's all true.

Lady Nicolette

I think that telling her how you feel is the best bet, despite the fact that you own the photograph, she perhaps didn't intend to essentially steal from you, although she certainly showed bad judgement (at the least, if she's truly ignorant that it indeed was stealing). 

If I had unintentionally done something to hurt someone, as she has, I would certainly have come to you and given YOU the winnings and she still may do that given the opportunity.  If she's made aware that what she did was wrong and doesn't offer to make amends somehow on her own, I would chalk it up to a sad experience and cross her off of my list of friends.
"Into every rain a little life must fall." ~ Tom Rapp~Pearls Before Swine

Dinobabe

The fact that she entered the photo contest without consulting you and didn't offer you at least half the winnings if not all tells me she's no friend in the first place!  I would definitely contact the contest coordinators and explain the situation.  They may wish to use the photo in ways you don't agree with and of course they would be giving credit (unknowingly) to someone else.  It may be a matter of rules for the contest as well.  Then I would explain to her just how hurt and disappointed you are.  It was a breech of ethics, morals, and your friendship.  It's not a matter of how good the photo is, it's a matter of the way she treated you.  Good luck.
By the way, how did you find out?
Natasha McCallister
Bristol Faire 1988-2005
The Wizard's Chamber/Sir Don Palmist
59.2% FaireFolk Corrupt
midsouthrenfaire.com

sealion

I would first speak to the friend to let her know that you are upset and why. If she blows it off as no big deal I would then contact the photo judges and let them know that as the photographer you do not wish to relinquish your rights to the photo. What the judges decide to do once notified that you took the picture is up to them.
Cindy/Ciana Leonardi di Firenze/Captain Cin

renfairephotog

Short version she owes you the mugs.

Is it worth telling the faire and having  the both of you upset at each other when you see one another at faire? that's up yo you.  I wouldn't give her the originals though. They can't do much with a myspace pic.
Twenty seasons of covering renaissance  festivals. Photos/calendar/blog.
Fairy photographer

Lord Figaro

I'm not a photographer, but I must say she surely owes you the mugs, no doubt. But how far you want to go is up to you. If you push it, you risk loosing the friend. But if you don't you'll always know in the back of your mind, what she did that hurt you. So you definitely need to sit down and explain how YOU feel about it. Keep pressing the fact that it's how YOU feel, and she can't fault you for your feelings.
Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.

George Santayana

Lady L

I agree with Sealion on this one.
How close of a friend was this person? She should have asked you BEFORE she entered that photo in a contest, if it would be ok with you.

I am first and foremost a visual artist, but I have also sold some of my photography. It never ceases to amaze me that most people think it's ok to steal art/photography.

Once, I was asked to take 35mm photos of a building, for the organization that owned that building. They bought the film and I took the photos with my own camera. Even though I did the work, using my equipment, they insisted that all of it belonged to them, because they bought the film. Well, without someone USING said film, it would still be blank film. I got nothing, not even a credit line.
Live and learn.
Former Shop Owner at MNRF

Dinobabe

I have friends and family that are professional photographers.  They are VERY gaurded of their work. All pictures, whether digital or print, have their copyright on them.  Nothing leaves them without it.  Digital media is so easy to steal so the artist must take speacial care.  I am even probably less careful than I should be!
Natasha McCallister
Bristol Faire 1988-2005
The Wizard's Chamber/Sir Don Palmist
59.2% FaireFolk Corrupt
midsouthrenfaire.com

majikboxman

Well... I personally think it's pretty low for anyone to do something like this.  A real friend would of said something first.  I'd be pissed too. 

Be careful on opening a can of worms with that Faire.  It could backfire.  They could get upset at you for pushing the issue then turn around and tell you to keep off their property. 

I'd ask for the mugs.  If she don't give them to you... cut the cord on being her friend.

Not to pick a scab... but depending on the Faire, they might have a stipulation on photo ownership on the ticket stub so it may technically not be yours to begin with.  **Please don't high-jack this topic with the photo ownership debate, take that topic to one of the several areas where it's been debated already.**

Put a watermark on your photo people.  It's that simple.  This was one of the first things they pounded into our heads in graphics school.  If your going to put a photo online without it.... or give a photo to someone else without it... your freely opening yourself up to concerns such as these.  Hell... look at your area photo studios.  Most of them will have their text in the bottom corner of your prints when you buy them.  I have not seen any in my city that don't do that.  They do it for a reason... to keep their photos theirs. 

Never give the original.
This Space For Rent

Taffy Saltwater

Call the Faire, tell them you understand your photo won the contest, and you need to give them your address for the prize.  Let them deal with "friend".
Sveethot!

Blushing

Thanks so much ...

So how does one put a water mark on photos?  I do have a few photo editing programs, but I'm mainly self-taught (my area of expertise is writing).  I'm somewhat aware of general copyright laws, which is why until now I haven't been concerned.  But then again unutil recently I don't think my photos were worth stealing.

I found out about this whole thing when the photos went up on the faire's Web site.  About then, my friend (who I've known since junior high school) called me to say how excited she was because she had won tickets to faire, with the photo.  Last two years I've given her extra tickets I had, when she said she couldn't otherwise attend.

I'm definitely going to talk to her.  I've calmed down enough that I can do so thoughtfully.  And I've decided that even if it means losing a friend, I want part of the prize.  Harsh as that may sound.

I don't think I'll go to the faire, if only because it very well may backfire.  I don't want to be barred from faire, or barred from future photo contests for that matter.  Not that I'd think this faire would do such ... but I know one faire that might.
~All human activity lies within the artist's scope~