Spinning, fiber sources, and wheel plans?

[Tipsy Gypsy]

This looks as good a place as any to post my inquiry, and I'll trust the mods to move it if need be...

This is uncharted territory for me, as I've never been terribly adept in the fiber arts. (Read that: simple mending, buttons, and the occasional sloppy blindstitched hem are the sum of my accomplishments. ) Next month, I'm taking a drop spindle class, then trying my hand at crochet that evening. I'm thinking that if I find I have a knack for it, I might even consider a spinning wheel in the future.

I had occasion to talk with a gentleman at a spinning & weaving demo at the Houston Rodeo last month, and the conversation turned to the spinning wheel he had nearby, and the availability of plans on the internet to build a wheel from wood, bicycle frames, or even PVC. However, my searches online haven't produced much.

So I have two questions- first, have any of you ever built one, and where'e you find the plans? And secondly, where would one find sufficient quantity of fibers suitable for spinning that wouldn't be cost prohibitive?

I find myself growing more and more interested in learning some of the old ways of doing things, and becoming less dependent on others to provide the things I need, or at least more able to do things for myself if I chose. On the other hand, it seems a bit counter-productive if it costs me more that way!

Thanks, I'm eager to see what replies I may receive!

[Magister]

Tipsy Gypsy:

   With the questions you ask, to really answer them thoroughly would take up books.  Saying that, your best resource is your local library - interlibrary loan probably, and of course the internet.  You can find plenty of good books on the subject on Amazon then use the ISBN numbers to request the books.

   However, I'll try to give you some direction on a cursory level.  If you have any questions afterwards I'll do my best to help.  If I can't help I'm certain Kristal (Spinster on the forums) can.

   Since you asked about, "Is it cheaper to do it myself?" The answer is almost certainly a resounding "No!"  Due to the way major manufactures can buy in bulk, use machinery, and don't forget use foreign labor at pennies a day to manufacture that sweater you bought at Wal-Mart for $4.99 you'll almost certainly will not be able to make it yourself at anywhere near that cost - let alone below.  Just accept you are going to pay a premium for any item you make if you do it yourself.  Now, if you happen to have your own sheep / alpaca / cotton plantation and can acquire the materials at little or no cost then you may have something.  Otherwise, forget it.  You do this for the creative control, satisfaction, and experience - it's a labor of love.  Once you spend 200 hours spinning the wool, another countless number of hours weaving / crocheting / knitting the wool you certainly better like doing it.

   Where to get the fibers?  Just search on the internet.  There are plenty of sites that offer carded, dyed, undyed, uncarded fibers of all types.  Simple uncarded, undyed, probably unwashed wool fleece is usually the cheapest.  You can often find very good deals on eBay.  Especially during the shearing season.  Second cuts are usually much cheaper than first.  You can also find good deals on alpaca there as well.  Commercial sites like The Woolery (http://www.woolery.com) occasionally run sales, and you can find a decent selection there pretty much anytime of the year.  Depending on where you live you may even be able to find shops that sell it locally, or arrange with a local farmer.  Getting a good deal is just a matter of searching relentlessly, and being a little lucky.

   Now on to the big question, should I build my own wheel?  My opinion on this is simple, unless you are a talented woodworker / woodturner, with some decent metalworking background don't bother trying.  That is not to say you won't be able to glue some PVC together, throw on a bike rim, and maybe just maybe twist some fibers together that don't get caught, fray, or look too horribly bad.  It does mean that you would have to be very lucky to get the balance, pedal, and working mechanisms all right.  A good wheel makes you want to come use it, a poorly built one (even commercial) makes you dread the hours you have to spend at it.  Remember you'll be spending hours at a time at this thing, you don't want to feel like it's a chore.

   Buying a first wheel does not have to break the bank.  Yes, if you go to Ashford's website and look at even their basic traditional wheel you might cringe (Traditional Single Drive new is around $425.00).  However, you can usually find used ones either on eBay (be very careful here if it's broken they may not say) secondhand shops, classifieds, etc. for closer to $125.00 or so.  Spinster and I have found them for less than $50.00, once she got a nice wheel for virtually free from a flea market.  It just takes a little hunting around.  Consider you'll end up paying well over $100.00 for the parts to make a decent wheel it's almost better to find a good condition used one instead.  Unless you want to build your own for the experience itself.  That's a whole different story.  When buying used make sure nothing is broken or cracked.  The pedal action works SMOOTHLY not clunky, and the fly spins smoothly.  Make sure it has all the parts - that means bobbins, maiden, etc.

   Alright now that I got on my soapbox why "homemade wheels" are usually bad bad things unless built by someone who knows what they are doing.  Where to get plans if you absolutely insist.  I am not affiliated with any of the following sites.  The first one if probably the best free plans out there.  The second is a compilation site with several decent options.  The rest are all "pay" to buy plans.  Some of the books you could probably get through your library.

http://www.ztwist.com/wheels.htm
http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~caj/diy.html
http://kero1au.tripod.com/id32.html
http://www.woolery.com/Pages/booksplans.html

Sides notes I thought of while writing this:

You might cringe but when learning to spin you go through a lot of roving.  Even with a drop spindle when you first start out it takes awhile to get "in the groove".  Using expensive roving for this is silly if you have another option.  You can spin just about any type of fiber, including dog, cat (longer hair better), etc.  We tell people if you have a long haired dog brush them, get piles of hair, card it, and practice spinning it.  We spin St. Bernard, Great Pyr, you name it.  Some people actually buy it to use in garments.  Don't believe me check eBay, there's usually a woman selling it there.  Just remember wet dog hair stinks.

If you ever get unwashed natural fibers (wool, alpaca, etc.) remember water + heat + friction = felt.  There is nothing more upsetting then tossing your $50.00 worth of roving in the washing machine forgetting it's on hot, and letting it get to the spin cycle.  You now have the most wonderful felt donut - that is completely useless for anything but a butt pad.  Wash gently but thoroughly then hang or set out in the sun to dry. 

I'm sure there's other stuff I'm forgetting to mention.  If you think of anything, or have questions don't be afraid to ask.

    - Mag

{Edited}

Ok one more.  Again another site not my own, but a fantastic reference for all things spinning: http://www.joyofhandspinning.com/

Videos, how-tos, information what's not to love.

[Tipsy Gypsy]

Thanks, Mag, you've given me a lot to consider, and I appreciate it.

Yup, I know that buying fiber somewhere isn't going to save me money. I realised that when a friend commented that Alpaca was going for around $30-35 an ounce. Yikes!! It occurred to me though that folks here are pretty doggone resourceful, and there may be non- commercial sources of fibers that I hadn't considered. Living in town, livestock for wool isn't an option. Maybe someday, though, when I have a place large enough for the garden I want, and a flock of chickens... I had to chuckle when you mentioned spinning Pyr- we have a Pyr mix, and a Lab/ who knows what mix, both of whom are blowing thick downy coat right now, but I don't think either would produce enough to spin, unfortunately .

As for the wheel itself (and assuming I'd even be adept enough at spinning to make one worthwhile...), I'm blessed there- Milord has tradesman's hands, a craftsman's eye, and the mind of an engineer. Quite the renaissance man in many ways, he's saved us a fortune by being able to make and repair things himself better than if we'd hired someone. Now, getting him to finish a project is sometimes a task, ...

Anyhow, thanks for the input, and the time you took in answering my questions so thoroughly. I realize I'm getting a bit ahead of myself, but I like to think forward and try to learn a little more about a subject and the directions it could lead when I'm deciding how far I want to pursue something, and how much I want to commit to it. Whether I should ever get into full-scale spinning, weaving and garment-making or not, which isn't likely, or just producing enough yarn to make a pot holder or two for fun, I think those skills would still be useful to know. It might be beneficial some day in ways I hadn't considered!

Thanks again!

[Spinster]

Now that I know the topic is here (guess that's what I get for not logging on, eh?) I'll toss in a couple of pennies' worth.

1. Raw fibers are a godsend. (Raw is in just shorn, unwashed, stinky, nasty, horribly dirty, plant goodies and leftovers from lunch still attached... you get the idea.) So is the FleeceforSale yahoo group. An example of one of the posts there:

We have a number of purebred Border Leicester fleeces that we must part with!

Hogget fleeces: white(3) or near black(2) 4" staple length (fleeces average 5 lbs.) $8.50/lb.

MICAH: Nearly black with bleached tips, 8" staple. $8.00/lb.

ANGUS: Dark charcoal, nice crimp. 8" staple $7.50/lb.

(2)White fleeces: 7-9" staple excellent crimp. $7.50/lb.

You should learn about fiber length, crimp, texture, etc. at the class. If not, just ask.


2. Mag is right. Felt donuts are bad. Amusing to everybody else, but bad. Easiest way to wash a fleece:  small amount of dish detergent (Joy works really well) in the washer, fill it about halfway with hot water, and gently push the wool down into the mix. TURN THE WASHER OFF FIRST. I know about the donuts firsthand. Very important. Then just let it soak for about a half an hour or so, until the water cools. Let the water drain, but don't let the spin cycle run. Pull the fibers out and lay them out to dry. I use sweater drying racks, so it lays flat and air gets up underneath, too.

3. Don't plan on making enough to weave cloth for a garment. I made a swatch of MacGregor for a dear friend once. Never again. It took one day to process and dye the raw wool, three days to spin the fibers into 40 wpi yarn, and two days to weave the swatch - 6" wide by 24" long. On the other side of that, when using a wheel you can easily spin enough yarn (about a commercial fingering weight) to knit a pair of socks in a long afternoon.

4. Get a good, sturdy pair of cards if you're going to work with raw materials instead of buying pre-carded roving. I use cotton cards for everything. The pins are closer together, so it takes less time and fewer passes to produce workable material.

As Mag said, if you have any more questions or anything, ask away!

[Tipsy Gypsy]

Thanks Spinster, that's a lot of really great info!

[jcbanner]

I don't have much experience with spinning or weaving, but I remember asking about the same question you did about a year and a half ago.  I tryed making a spinning wheel from scratch and if theres anything I learned, its HAVE A PATERN!  teh wheel I tried making didn not turn out so very well.  Wheels in general are a lot harder to make then they would look.

Truth be told te biggest problem I ran into was simple lack of experience of spnning.  without being experianced with how the parts work, I found mayself "re-inventing the wheel"    I hope to try again someday, but only I know better how they work.

If you want to try and build your own, go for it, but liek a said, I would recomend to take the time to learn how it works first, and then when you're readdy to build, find a good pattern.