Having trouble with my Viking

[Lorraine]

I bought a Viking Sapphire 830 several weeks ago and I'm having trouble sewing with it with the needle out of the 0 position. If I move the needle to the left it starts doing two stitches on top, then it locks one stitch, then two stitches sitting on top, one locked, and so on. In other words the sewing is perfect with the needle centered, when it's not centered the sewing is completely messed up, looks wobbly, and doesn't lock every stitch. I took it to the shop once before, they played with it, said it was fine, and sent it home. It wasn't working again the next day, I cleaned and rethreaded it several times and it still wouldn't sew correctly. I went to see the lady at the Viking kiosk to ask her about, we tried hers out there and it stitched just fine at the normal tension with the needle moved over and she said she had never heard of that problem before, apologized profusely that I was having so much trouble, and called their main shop to set it up for me to bring it in again. We dropped it off yesterday and they just called to tell us to pick it up again, saying that theres nothing wrong with the machine, I just need to change the tension when I move the needle over. The Sapphire at the store worked just fine on the same weight of cotton I was using when she moved the needle over, and she certainly didn't have to change the tension, I never had to change the tension on my old machines when all I was doing was moving the needle. I had tried changing the tension on it before I dropped the machine off the last time and it didn't do anything to fix the problem, the sewing was just as messed up. Im getting rather tired of driving a half an hour to the store and a half an hour back to drop off and pick up the machine. Have any of you heard of this problem? I don't want to go pick up the machine when they claim it's just a tension problem, only to have it break repeatedly again once I get it home. Right now I'm using my Singer embroidery machine as a back up, but I can't run the multiple layers of duck through it out of fear of breaking it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[gem]

Hi, Bonnie,

Well, rats.  I'm SO sorry you're having this issue!!  Unfortunately, I have heard of all kinds of similar problems with the whole Sapphire line, especially the 830--that's why I ended up going with the Emerald 183.  I read too many reviews of unresolvable tension problems that sound just like what you're describing (not necessarily the exact issue of problems sewing if you change needle positions, but lots of similar/related complaints).  (OTOH, I've also heard of people who just love theirs.  The bad reviews--plus a pretty restrictive return policy at my dealer--just scared me away.)

Anyway, I found this blog particularly helpful, as well as the reviews at PatternReview.com.

I would read through those reviews, and then go back to your dealer and see if they'll swap you a new machine (insist, if it's in your nature!).  You may just have one of the lemons, and a new one might work perfectly fine!  If the new machine has problems, too, I'd trade it in for the Emerald 183.  The book is really misleading about what will fit and won't; a lot of the things that say "not for Emerald series" actually are only referring to the 112, 116, and 118; the 183 is in a different category (6 instead of 5), and almost everything labeled 6 in the book will fit it (my dealer and I tested this before I bought!).

OTOH, when I asked Kate XXXX about this very issue, she had some thoughts on the matter, and I'll hope she'll weigh in here, too.

Gosh, I can't tell you how sorry I am to hear that your new baby is giving you fits.  That's just rotten, and I hope you can get it resolved! 

[Pascal]

Bonnie, you might want to post this issue in the message boards at http://www.patternreview.com (and you may have already -- I haven't been there today yet).  They have at least one Viking service guy participating who can give you the real rundown.

[Lorraine]

Thanks for the links gem. Those reviews were rather frightening, and a lot of them were dead on for what's happening with my machine, especially the one sewing terribly while at home and then behaving as soon as it got to the shop. I just signed up for that site today Pascal but haven't posted yet, now that I know there is an actual viking tech there though I definitely will. I just picked the machine up, they didn't do anything to fix it (again), just told me it's working beautifully and I must be doing something wrong. I don't know how just moving the needle position is wrong, but I think until I've calmed down enough to spend another night ripping out seams I will stick to sewing with the embroidery machine.

[Lorraine]

I took pics of the stitches after I got the machine home today. Of course it's still doing it, since they told me at the shop they hadn't had to fix anything because it "stitches beautifully". Either I'm blind, or they're on drugs. Anyways, they insist it's because I need to change the tension when I change the needle position, so I tested it out. I wasn't sure which way to turn the tension, since the problem isn't loops showing, it's just general jacked up stitches. The first two rows on the left are from the needle in the 2.5 position to the left with the tension set at 5, the next row is tension set at 6, and the last row is the tension set at 4, probably the straightest row, but the stitches were all messed up on the other side. The next two rows are the needle to the right in the 2.5 position and tension 5. The last row is the needle in the 0 position, again with the tension at 5. Please someone tell me I'm not crazy, I'm tired of them blaming me.

[tigerlilly]

I usually solve all my Viking problems with a beer and a footrub.  Settles them right down.

No, you're not blind.  Those stitches are messed up.  Sorry about your machine, is there anywhere else you can take it?

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

Could be thread or bobbin tensions. Take it back to where you bought it and have someone take a  look at it..

I drive my machines hard. I had my Janome in yesterday for some repair and parts replacement. $188,54 was the total. The guy had to reprogram the computer inside the machine because it was on Bobbin Winding Mode. I could not do any sewing. This was the first time I had parts replaced in almost 3 years since buying it. So I can't complain.

[operafantomet]

Have YOU tried sewing on the machine while you're there? So that you can get an idea of their idea of "beautifully", or so they can understand what YOU'RE meaning? I don't trust them, and if they're speaking the truth, they must have a special sewing technique or something.

I mean, those stitches looks screwed... not in a horribly way, but still... nope. That's not how it should be.

[Kate XXXXXX]

If that is the stitching from the top, can you post a pic of them from the underside?  If you'd number the rows on each side so we can match the top and bottom views up, that would also help...

It's hard to tell what's going on from one side only.  I need to look at both to determine whether this is a top thread issue or a bobbin thread issue...

One thing to think about...  Is the bobbin in the right way up?  My Lily bobbins will only go on the bobbin winder one way round, and you then have to put them in the machine the correct way up, with the little logo on the top.  Wrong way up and the stitches are screwed, or the thread snaps, or it grinds its teeth and swears at me... 

Something else to think about.  My HV Optima 190 (donated to the sewing room by Big Sis, and now almost 30 years old) likes a PERFECTLY wound bobbin...  A tad 'off' and it behaves just like this machine, whatever the needle position and stitch chosen.  I've rewound bobbins with the same thread (just bobbin to bobbin) and a grisly mess had evaporated and turned into perfect stitching.  It's been like this all its life.

Another something else: 'floss' your tension disks with a lint free lens cloth: I use the micoi-fiber ones I get free with every pair of specs from my optician.  I have half a dozen stashed away, and they wash well (pop them in a mini laundry net, like you do pop sox and tights).

Just things to try before doing something more drastic.

[Lorraine]

I wound the bobbins with the logo up, and inserted it in the case with the logo up, following the manuals instructions. My machine doesn't wind them very evenly, it only winds the middle/bottom section, so I've been using my finger to make it wind evenly from top to bottom like I did with my old machine. I switched the thread order for these pics, the underside of the other swatch didn't show up too well with the cream thread. So anyways, brown is the bobbin thread here, cream is the top, and its with the needle in the left position again, tension set at 5.  Oh, and the shop is saying both the bobbin and upper tension is perfect, they're saying its user error, so taking it back again won't help much Lady Kathleen, it's been to the shop twice so far and they say the stitches are "perfect".

[Kate XXXXXX]

That looks to me like your bobbin tension is slightly too loose.  If you pop the bobbin case out, there's a tiny screw on the side by the bobbin case leaf spring.  Try tightening that a quarter turn and test again.

If you are using thinner thread than the shop used to test the machine, this could be the difference between their perfect and your non-perfect stitching.  It should have come back to you with a sample of their stitching.  Whenever any of my machines go in for servicing, they come back with a full stitch-out of all the major stitch patterns and any I mention having particular problems with.

Also, if the machine doesn't wind perfectly, take a look at how you are threading up for winding.  For Lily there are two different methods, depending on whether I'm unthreading the machine or not.

When unthreading, I thread the thread from the spool through the first section BEFORE the tension disks, then round the bobbin-winding thread guide in a complete circuit, then to the bobbin.  When winding from the needle, I make sure the needle is at the highest position, pull the thread UNDER the foot and then up and over the thread guide.  Wind bobbins with the presser foot UP.  Occasionally I need to guide the thread manually to get an even wind: this is usually when using parallel wound threads rather than cross wound thread, or using small reels.  One thing to make sure of is that when you thread the spool onto the spool pin, you place the reel so that the thread is coming off the TOP of the spool as it lies on its side, not off the bottom.

If this doesn't help, then take it and the bobbins it is miss-winding for them to look at.

To test your machine, use a size 80 UNIVERSAL needle and some unbleached calico/musllin, unwashed, and good quality thread.  Use two layers of fabric.  HV engineers usually use something like Gutterman Sew All polyester.  If the machine produces perfect stitching with these threads and fabrics (which is how they are tested in the factory, and what the engineers do when testing and adjusting), then what you need to do to get perfect stitching on the thread and fabric combination you are using is adjust thread tension, foot pressure, and needle type and size to suit the project you are doing.  Modern machines with servo motors to make stitch patterns tend to be more sensitive to these small changes, and you have to learn what works with what.  With little adjustments of thread tension from both bobbin and spool, foot pressure adjustment, and the correct needle type, Lily produces perfect stitches on almost anything, using all sorts of different threads.

Good luck!   

[Lorraine]

I'm slightly worried about messing with the bobbin tension since it sews perfectly with the needle centered and to the right. They did send home a sample of the stitching with their thread and fabric from when they were testing it with the needle centered, to the left, and to the right. Two of the rows of stitching are flawless, and the third looks perfect on the top but when you flip it over its locking unevenly, the same two stitches on top and not locked, then locked, two stitches on top, then locked. I just don't think they're looking that closely, it's fine on the top, the back looks straight, even if it's not locking correctly, therefore to them the stitches are "perfect". I accidentally washed some of these "perfect" stitches on my stepsisters chemise, they were fine on top, flawed on the bobbin side, and I ended up with loops of thread hanging every other stitch from them not locking evenly. It's more I need to make the shop see what I'm seeing I think, and for them to admit it's not user error. I've been doing from the needle bobbin winding, foot up, needle up, thread looped below the foot, it just doesn't like the wind the upper part. The lady at the viking kiosk said they can be finicky when winding and that she frequently has to help them wind evenly. I didn't think I'd pay so much money for a good brand and have so many problems. Thanks for the help Kate, it's good to have a checklist to run through when things go wrong.

[Cobaltblu]

Who would have guessed people would have trouble with a Viking...as soon as you let your guard down they rape and pillage and burn your house down...and sew crooked.

I know straight sewing is nice but maybe it adds to the item since I am sure people didn't hand sew perfectly hundreds of years ago.  I kind of like it.

Regards,

CB

[Kate XXXXXX]

Having it slightly wonky because that's how you like it is one thing.  Having it slightly wonky because the machine is set up incorrectly is something else again.  Anf for some less than perfect hand stitchingm, try this:

http://www.philamuseum.org/collections/permanent/128172.html

Just zoom in for the stitches, and die quietly of envy!   

Lorraine, if it's working perfectly to center and right, but off at the left position, then it may be a timing issue rather than a tension issue, ESPECIALLY if it is skipping the occasional stitch altogether.  Worth taking it back to them, insisting on speaking to the engineer who does the servicing, and pointing out the stitches that are less than perfect.

[Lorraine]

I just dropped the machine off again. This time instead of dropping it off at the repair store, I took it to the Joann's kiosk so we could sit down and I could show someone what it was really doing. She played with it for about 10 minutes using different tensions and trying out the needle position test in the back of the book, and got the exact same results I was getting (so much for the user error theory). She wrote up a claim card and included all the sample lines she had stitched and said she had never seen that problem before, and asked if I really needed the machine to sew with the needle in the left position and what for. I explained I do a lot of piping and a lot of bone casing and hems with the needle moved over, I rarely stitch with it in the center position. Oh well, at least someone else can see there is something clearly wrong with it, hopefully she can talk the repair guys into fixing it.

[Tammy]

I just wanted to say I hope this gets fixed for you! Good Luck!!

[Kate XXXXXX]

You did the right thing, and hopefully they will too.  Fingers are crossed...