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Faire Nazis

Started by BubbleWright, April 19, 2009, 12:27:21 PM

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BubbleWright

We have all heard the term "garb nazis", referring to those who criticize other peoples' costume as not being historically correct to the last stitch and button. I would like to propose a new term- "faire nazis", those who rail against a Faire because it is not historically accurate and in particular, committing the grievous offense of not having dirt lanes strewn with rocks and tree roots, instead having (horrors) paved byways. As a member of various online groups, I have read many snide remarks about PARF because it is paved with asphalt. I would like to make a few comments about this:

1- If all Faires were exactly the same, there would be no need for more than one.
2- I enjoy the diversity of style, substance and character that each Faire has made its own.
3- There is not a single Faire that is 100% historically accurate. Otherwise, beside dirt lanes, there would be various farm animals wandering about, REAL privies, chamber pots emptied from above on to the streets, and many other unsanitary, revolting practices happening.
4- Faires are really about entertainment, fun, food & drink, and above all, the experience.
5- I would surmise PARF evolved to asphalt paving for a number of reasons: to cut down on dust when it's dry; eliminate mud wallows  when it's wet; provide firm, stable footing for the patrons (i.e., insurance reasons), and in general, easier maintenance of the facility.
6- Every weekend there are numerous patrons in wheel chairs and electric scooters who can navigate the entire Shire because of the paving. Even for those with limited ability to communicate, you can see on their faces the joy they have in being able to partake of the experience, which would not be possible on dirt lanes strewn with rocks and tree roots.
7- As a corollary to #6, the paved streets make life a lot easier for families with children in strollers (and those of us with bubble wagons).

My final words on the subject... celebrate each and every human being, each and every Faire for what they have and offer. Don't denigrate them for what you perceive they lack.
"It is only with the heart that one sees rightly. What is essential is invisible to the eye."
   Antoine de St. Exupery

Quiet One

#1
Well said, BubbleWright.

Last year PARF was my "new" faire.  I talked to many people who have attended before and got varying responses of the good and the bad aspects of the faire and should I make the trip or not.  To some people this is their favorite for the shopping or the cast or the entertainment.  Some said they won't return because of the paved walkways made it feel like Disneyland.  If the walkway composition is how someone judges a faire, then they are missing out on the real faire experience. 
As long as I'm not walking in mud all day or over large stones, the walkways make no difference to me.

Well, I visited PARF on a beautiful October weekend last year.  When I left, I left with a feeling of "Wow, this is a great faire!"

The cast is superb.  No matter where I wandered, I always came across part of the cast interacting in the lanes.  The stage entertainment was over abundant.  I never did get to see all of the shows I wanted to see.  I can't comment on the vendors because I am not much of a shopper.  I am an amateur photographer and what I do notice are their buildings and their displays as I wander through the lanes.  Some of the vendors have very unique and interesting little shops.  At the end of the day I really enjoy a good Pub Sing.  I've been to good ones and bad ones.  PARF's Finale in Song is a show all in it's own and a fantastic ending to the day.

If I had let the fact that the walkways are paved determine whether or not I attended or how good of a time I had, I would have missed out on an experience I can't wait to repeat this year, possibly twice.
Whisper'n M'Crack
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Lady Renee Buchanan

I wouldn't know how it would be to walk through a faire and not get a variety of stones, twigs, grass, and dust in my shoes, necessitating removing them and emptying them on a regular basis.  Paved walkways sound great to me!

I'd love to visit your beautiful faire someday, and not just for the walkways.  From the pictures I've seen, it looks wonderful.
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Sir William Marcus

Nicely put indeed BubbleWright.

VENI, VIDI, VELCRO! Spelling and grammatical errors are beyond my control, it's the way I'm wired.

Capt Spleen

To each their own.......

PARF has been and still is my all time favorite faire.

Yet each faire has it's own character.

I still have to say I have not had a bad day at any faire, or that any faire is a bad faire.

I feel that PARF will be around while other faires might fail in the future due to:
(Business diversity)
1) Built around a mansion grounds.
2) The mansion doubles as a stage house that performs many events throughout the year.
3) A vineyard.
3a) A winery.
4) "mostly" Paved lanes (helps with elderly, handicapped, strollers, drainage, etc.)
5) Performers do not take tips. I suppose they're paid well enough to eliminate that. Then again you will pay the price of $25 or more at the gate. ANd yes, worth every dollar!
6) They also have a micro-brewery and a disney like pub w/ceiling fans. And I'm OK with that.
7) A very good human combat chess with great storyline that is directed to final joust.
8) Final joust is a spectacle to experience! Then go to #9
9) The Finale stage show that goes into the dark of the night is worth the admission price alone.
10) During the Labor day weekend you can do a whirlwind Ren tour of three faires in one weekend. MDRF, PARF and GPRF - Pittsburgh.  And if you include the following or earlier week, you could do ORF. 4 Faires in two weekends.

maelstrom0370

Quote from: BubbleWright on April 19, 2009, 12:27:21 PM
committing the grievous offense of not having dirt lanes strewn with rocks and tree roots, instead having (horrors) paved byways.

Th-They have Faires...with...paved walk-ways!!??  :o

Joking aside, I wouldn't care if my Faire had cement sidewalks and public transportation!  I'd still love it!!

Carl Heinz

Out here, we have the ongoing discussions about the glories of Novato and Agoura.

I've won folks over by convincing them that the site is just the stage and that we are the Faire.

I find myself dropping out of character much more frequently now that I'm riding around on one of the larger anachronisms at Faire.  This is generally done with other mobility challenged folks who express an interest in how Lightning Scooter-Horse came to be created.

I've allso preached over the years that adjustments must be made for us to continue having our playpens.  The owners need to show at least some profit else our playpens go away.

This doesn't mean that we can't provide accurate examples or do a bit of education without preaching.  If this offends some folks who feel the need for strict accuracy, they have other outlets such as a very large number of re-enactment organizaitions.  And, yes, I have friends who have opted for this and, strangely enough, we continue to be friends.

As an aside, one of the PA vendors is here.  They have some very interesting shoulder dragon puppets.  I've not had much chance to talk to them yet, but I get the impression that they're a bit surprised by the large numbers of participants which are part of the tradition of our faires.

For me, the bottom line is to provide an entertaining exprience within as historically accurate a venue as possible.  "As Possible" is the operative.  If we aren't entertaining, folks won't come.  If they don't come, there's no profit for the owners.  If there's no profit for the owners, we won't have our playpens.
Carl Heinz
Guild of St Cuthbert

Master James

Well said Bubblewright.  I don't think faire bashing is a good thing.  Not all faires are the same and if you don't enjoy a particular faire, you have the ability not to return.  There is no need to bad mouth it to others.  I have attended PARF for years and love it.  Especially the new Queen they had last year!  She was completely great and could handle anything thrown at her!  I have back problems and sadly the paving causes me problems in the boots I had so I could only go for one day at a time because I would be so sore by the end of the day I could barely walk.  I'm hoping it was only my boots because I got a new pair of boots this year and hopefully I won't have the problems this year and can do more than one day.  Now that doesn't mean I bad mouth the faire or put it down for having the pavements, I simply have a physical issue that I'm hoping I found a solution for so I can enjoy the faire for many more days.
Why can't reality be more like faire?
Clan M'Crack
RenVet
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lordwriothsley

I have to agree with everyone else on this. Well said BubbleWright...For one faires are what they are fun and entertaining and all about the food and drink. Plus like Master James said faire bashing is never a good thing at all. Yes I have been to a few faires that I didn't particularly like but that didn't mean that I was going to go bashing them just cause I didn't like them. For the record I have fun doing faires and it's a hobby that I have and always will enjoy doing.
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kcdcchef

well, i am in the minority that hates the paving. but not because i am some period accuracy snob or something. i come in jeans and a wind shirt, drink diet pepsi out of plastic containers, and check football scores from my cell phone. however, again, it is a personal like or dislike. i came to mount hope before it was paved, i liked it better. for me, being one that liked it that way better, it was the whole general feeling it gave me. it felt more authentic. but having said that, certain faires just feel more authentic than others, doesnt mean you cannot enjoy yourself and then some.

for example, i make the drive to mount hope every october, drive the 4 hours one way to get there, spend the weekend usually, hit my favorite shows, tartan terrors, ( well, not anymore ) sultry sirens, take in some sort of shakespeare at the globe, see the final joust of the day ( and season generally ) finale in song, damian blade, mud show, ceann if they are there, and a few other things. get a whole plethora of things to eat, the traditional turkey leg, bloomin' onion, waffles and chicken was a favorite last year, kettle corn, etc, etc, etc. and while at mount hope, i enjoy it. i enjoy it so much i would rather prefer driving the 4 hours than going to the greater pittsburgh renaissance faire. i find it just that superior, seriously. i think it is totally awesome, i really do.

but there are things that i dont like about it too, and the paving is one. i hate the feeling that paving provides, in addition to the large number of booths parf has that dont look anything like authentic compared to many other faires. but you know what???? so what. who cares. it is still an amazing faire. when i go to my home faire each fall, kansas city renaissance festival, i get my fix of dirty, twig and woodchip infested lanes. everyone brings their dogs, there are more booths carved into tree stumps, more log bridges, more creeks and water features, more real live elephants and camels, more people interacting with you in the lanes, etc, and i like that feel better. but again, who the hell cares?? parf is different, and i agree with earlier posters, why would we want all faires to be the same? if i did, i would only fly back to kc each october, and avoid driving each year to mount hope, new york, and maryland. some years ohio and michigan. i would just focus on kc. but i like the contrast. and even though i still will always feel that the woodchipped lanes and architecture in kc are better than parf, i mean, there are so many awesome things at parf too. i joke each october in kansas city "would someone please pay the good people of mount hope to come out here and teach these bastards how to do a joust???!!!!!" same joust 8 years running in kc. i am not kidding. and after 30 years, they still havent figured out how to properly have a good piece from will shakespeare done. seriously, i keep wanting to video the joust in mount hope and send it to kansas city!!!

like many of you have mentioned already, parf did what they did for a variety of reasons. and i generally avoid parf early in the season for one of those reasons..............heat = dust. if the parf was a shorter run, like perhaps a 7-8 weekend run only in the fall, and didnt have other events like the fling in the summer, they could probably get away with staying unpaved. other faires i go to that are not paved, well, some are great at it, some suck at it. some have the dust and mud every where, some faires actually run the pavers through the shire throughout the week to ensure the twig/mud ground is solid.

at the end of the day, like or dislike what you must. but no need to throw stones ( or old pieces of pavement ) over the issue!!

Cobaltblu

Quote from: kcdcchef on April 25, 2009, 08:03:56 PM
well, i am in the minority that hates the paving.

I think the vast majority of people hate paving.  I know I do because it is totally against the atmosphere of a renaissance faire and I would never attend a faire that had bad atmosphere or aesthetics.

There is nothing wrong with describing what you love or hate about faires and why; people should just be respectful when expressing their opinions.

Regards,

CB
Click on my website icon on the left to view my photo album of garb and items.

LadyDracolich

I have to agree.  I haven't been to a faire I didn't like, but there are faires I like more than others.  Strangely enough, what makes me like/dislike a faire has almost nothing to do w/ aesthetics.  I suppose that's because the nearest faire to me is a one weekend only fair w/ lots of tents and is held on fair grounds.  What they have that I love so much is a great atmosphere, pretty good entertainment and shopping, a great cast (King, Queen, and guards) and the most amazing joust I've ever seen! 

Sadly, because I have spent so many years as a professional equestrian/ horse trainer, I can inadvertently be an equine sport snob.  That equates to me being a Joust snob.  Which means that there are some joust troops that I don't care for, so when they play a faire I'm at, I don't go. 

All that being said, each faire has it's own vibe, love it or not.  I just love faire and will go to any and every one that I can every year that I can.
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Now Dear Sis, yee might give Kevin & John's show a try.  The last 2 seasons they were completely different shows and while they are theatrical in nature, each one was definately more action packed  :o than say a traditional Hanlon-Lees troupe performance. 
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#13
Quote
I think the vast majority of people hate paving.  I know I do because it is totally against the atmosphere of a renaissance faire and I would never attend a faire that had bad atmosphere or aesthetics.

I dunno about that, CB, but I know I appreciate it anyhow, at least the "cobblestone" walkways that TRF has. Granted, when the weather is fair, it's easier on the feet & legs to walk on the grass, but after a few weekends where the ground was so muddy it sucked the shoes off my feet, I sure was happy to see more sidewalks appear the next season! :D

And hey, if I wanted total realism in all areas, I'd stay in the mundane world, where there's nothing but! ;)
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Lady Amy of York

I have  attended  PARF  for  a few  years  now. It is  one of  my favorite  faires.

It does not matter wheter a faire  has  dirt paths or  paved  paths  to me. I  would  still attend  either way. My home  faire at Sterling, New York has  dirt paths  and  one  slightly  paved  path  .

Personally,I have  to say though that as  a person  who  has  a disbility that affects  my balance  a bit  when i walk , i like  the  paved  walkways  when it comes  to  going downhills.  Much better  traction, then walking down a dirt slope.

Also  on rainy days it is  nice  to not have  to always  be dragging my gowns  thru  mud, or  stepping in mud with  my shoes.

Also , when my son was still a baby and  in a stoller, it was  a pain in the  neck  to push   a stroller  so the  dirt.

Also on ahot dry day, dirt paths add to more  dust,etc, but then again  pave  paths  are harder on your  feet and  back like  Master James  already stated, and  the  asphalt absorbs  the heat  from the  sun  more.

Either way, i always  have  a great  time at PARF.  To not attend  a faire  like PARF  because  they have pave  paths  is  rediculous. People  don't  know what  they are missing.  The  cast is  fantastic, and  the  grounds  are  lovely.
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