French Farthingale

[LadyFaire88]

Does anyone know of or have a how to on making a french farthingale?

[Syrilla]

There are many different ways to achieve the look of the mythical French Farthingale.  As it is not an extant garment, most of us that have worked on it, have adapted modern items, to work at a festival.  I will post a few links and photos. 

One of our ladies on the forums site:  http://www.myfairelady.com/?page_id=6

http://www.geocities.com/technically_naked/grueso8.jpg

http://kimikosews.livejournal.com/tag/photos

http://saragrace.net/html/Elizabeth/3E_5_QEW_Farthingale.html

Keep us posted on what you try. 

I am on version #69.  Tho not historical, in anyway, I am attempting to find something that will stand up to the all day rigors at faire.

[Kate XXXXXX]

Steel dustbin lid?   

Honestly, NOT something I'd like to engineer without a LOT of support...  I've never liked that fashion, but should I ever be asked for one, knowing what works will help.

[operafantomet]

I seem to remember Jean Hunnisett has a good-looking pattern for this? Not QUITE sure, but that was the first thing entering my mind.

Also, for inspiration: http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/wheelfarthingales.html

[LadyFaire88]

Thankfully, this isnt for me. A friend is possibly attempting to make one for a commissioned dress and I told her I would post it on here. I will pass the info on to her. Thank you from both of us.

[operafantomet]

Re: French farthingales

I'm currently reading Aileen Riberio's "Gallery of Fashion" (should have been called "Gallery of ENGLISH Fashion...." ), and it describes the outfits in various English portraits (plus compare them to surviving garbs, where possible). I like the book a lot, although I find the title very misleading. But anyway....

She mentions the French farthingale in the context of the lovely portrait of Elizabeth of Bohemia from ca. 1610 (painted by Robert Peake the Elder, and is in the care of the National Galley in London). This is what she writes:

"She stands in full length, wearing formal costume over the French farthingale, which her mother Anne of Denmark insisted on retaining for court, although by this time it was no longer high fashion. (...) Her childish figure is accentuated by the long pointed bodice, and the stiff, whaleboned corset underneath pushes down the farthingale at the front, forcing it to rise at the back, creating the curious tip-tilted look characteristic of formal dress at this period."

This gives us three important clues:

1. In 1610 a French farthingale had largely gone out of fashion (in England), but was worn as a formal court attire

2. It's the corset (plus a bumroll) that makes the farthingale tilt, and keeps it in place. I think this piece of knowledge will solve many problems when making it. Simply because it seems like people's main problem is not the actual construction, but to keep the farthingale from sagging in the back. If you have a "pillow" (bumroll) forcing it up in the back, and the corset forcing it down in front, it's pretty much locked.

3. Her mother was a fan of French farthingales, and is largely depicted with it in her portraits

[Margaret]

Here's a silly question of the day....

The French Farthingale and the Wheel Farthingale are two sepreate and distinct thigs  - correct?

A French Farthigale is basicall a large padded roll worn about the waist while a Wheel Farthingale is a stiffened disc worn about the waist and supported by a padded roll.  At least this is what I get out of what little research I have done.

[operafantomet]

Here's a silly question of the day....

The French Farthingale and the Wheel Farthingale are two sepreate and distinct thigs  - correct?

A French Farthigale is basicall a large padded roll worn about the waist while a Wheel Farthingale is a stiffened disc worn about the waist and supported by a padded roll.  At least this is what I get out of what little research I have done.

I've seen the two terms being used on the same item, so I always assumed it was the same. But maybe not?

The mentioned Aileen Riberio seem to use the term "French farthingale" when referring to the wheel farthingale (judging by the look of the dresses she's describing - "the Ditchley portrait" and the "painted forepart" portrait of Elizabeth I and the 1610 portrait of Elizabeth of Bohemia).

Wikipedia lists "french farthingale" as being the padded roll you refer to, while the wheel version is called ITALIAN farthingale (anyone knows why?).

Maybe the wheel farthingale is a synthesis of the French and the "Italian" one, that they were dependent on eachother to achieve the desired shape? I dunno...

[mollymishap]

I don't know why, but this subject fascinates me.  Whoddathunk that such an un-flattering style would intrigue me.  Oh, well.  Wonders never cease.

But anyway, I've been updating my website with some thoughts since this post came up but I'm not quite done yet, so I'll post something more helpful (hopefully) once I'm done gathering my thoughts.

But in the meantime, your friend might do well with getting a copy of the Tudor Tailor for her to read up a bit.  It also gives her some patterns and how-to info on many styles of Tudor garments (from Henry VIII to Elizabeth I). 

[mollymishap]

Wikipedia lists "french farthingale" as being the padded roll you refer to, while the wheel version is called ITALIAN farthingale (anyone knows why?).

I've personally NEVER heard of any kind of "Italian Farthingale", have you?  I did a search & I think I traced where that reference came from, and it just sounds like a case of one person calling it that & then others parroting what they've read as if it were an absolute fact. 

Naturally,  I could be wrong, but it's just too similar to statements I've oft heard like, "pink isn't period".

OH, and BTW, I've finished updating the page on my website on this subject for anyone who's interested.  Just scroll down to the bottom to read my most recent addendum.

[operafantomet]

Wikipedia lists "french farthingale" as being the padded roll you refer to, while the wheel version is called ITALIAN farthingale (anyone knows why?).

I've personally NEVER heard of any kind of "Italian Farthingale", have you?  I did a search & I think I traced where that reference came from, and it just sounds like a case of one person calling it that & then others parroting what they've read as if it were an absolute fact. 

Naturally,  I could be wrong, but it's just too similar to statements I've oft heard like, "pink isn't period".

OH, and BTW, I've finished updating the page on my website on this subject for anyone who's interested.  Just scroll down to the bottom to read my most recent addendum.

I think I agree with you on what you've written... And it also brings us to the core of the problem with Wikipedia. As long as someone has written it, sometime, anywhere, you can quote it and it will be seen as the truth. But a quote does not a truth make!

Good job to trace down a possible origin of the expression. It really surprised me to see the term "Italian farthingale" being used, as that drum skirt style hardly existed at all in Italy. Historical Italian fashion somehow always seemed to aim for bell shaped skirts. There might be a possible Marie de' Medici-link, as you pointed out, but I still don't think that's enough to label it Italian.

[Syrilla]

I also went back through all of my research and could not find that term used.  It is always interesting how thing become diluted through quotes.

ON to #71, and it might work for a test run this weekend.