Author Topic: strap help needed  (Read 2799 times)

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Offline amber_freya

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strap help needed
« on: May 18, 2008, 05:14:41 AM »
My name is Amber Freya and I am completely new to posting here, though I have lurked for months.  While I'm not completely new to garbing, I am currently learning to stretch my body/pattern shaping skills. 

So I've recently started to bust out the Simplicity pattern 3809.

Here's a link to the pattern itself for a refresher: http://www.simplicity.com/dv1_v4.cfm?design=3809

My initial concern is that so far I have only chosen to cut out the pattern with some extra scrap fabric to determine how it would fit before I really got into my good fabric.  My concern is of twofold: 1) is it a historically accurate pattern for a bodice or is it only for doublets that the shaping was allowed for a garment?  2) (and more importantly) the straps, when pinned together, created the need for a dart in the front armpit area.  Granted, I don't want a dart.  I know kind of it's possible to pattern draft 'em out, but as I was trying to repin the straps, I had a minor idea.  I angled the front strap and it seemed to create the look of the real pattern.  Is this a normal occurrence or am I going to ruin it by doing that?

Thank you everyone for your knowledge and help. 
*Think of me, think of me fondly
When we've said goodbye.*

Offline sealion

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Re: strap help needed
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2008, 06:43:01 AM »
Welcome Amber! To answer your first question about the seam- I don't believe that it is 100% historically accurate to have the seams in the front of the bodice but I wouldn't get overly concerned about it. You might try taping the front pattern pieces together and cutting them as one and see how that works or you could just sew some trim over the seam if you want to disguise it. As for angling the straps- That is the solution recommended in the instructions for the Margo Anderson patterns and the solution that works for me. You want the outer edge of the strap to rest just at your shoulder point then rest just at the crease where your arm joins your body. Depending on your body shape the straps might angle in or out.
Cindy/Ciana Leonardi di Firenze/Captain Cin

Baroness Doune

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Re: strap help needed
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2008, 08:07:17 AM »
Most of the 16th century type patterns produced by the big 3 commercial pattern companies - Simplicity, McCalls, or Butterick - contain either darts or princess seams to accommodate the shape of the bust.  The only exception is Simplicity 3782.

Neither darts or princess seams are a part of HA 16th century bodices or doublets.  The princess seams show up in Margo Anderson's doublet pattern because it is easier to fit the doublet that way but the princess seam are not shaped in the same way as modern princess seams.  The princess seams in Margo Anderson's doublet pattern maintain the correct Elizabethan conical silhouette which provides no accommodation for the bust and, therefore, the bust is pushed upwards.

If you are interested in creating a more historically accurate silhouette in your bodice:
Here is how to get rid of the darts.
http://www.reddawn.net/costume/darts.htm

Here is another method to get rid of the darts.
http://www.modehistorique.com/elizabethan/removedart.html

Here is how to get rid of the princess seams.
http://www.reddawn.net/costume/princess.htm

You are absolutely on the right track for getting rid of the gapping in the armcye area.  The solution is to dart out the excess fabric in the toile.  When transferring the changes back to the pattern, the elimination of the dart causes a change in the angle of the bodice strap.  Here is an example of where that was done.
http://www.karen.htmlcreators.com/tebwcaseno3.html

Offline gem

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Re: strap help needed
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2008, 12:05:44 PM »
Quote
You are absolutely on the right track for getting rid of the gapping in the armcye area.  The solution is to dart out the excess fabric in the toile.  When transferring the changes back to the pattern, the elimination of the dart causes a change in the angle of the bodice strap.  Here is an example of where that was done.
http://www.karen.htmlcreators.com/tebwcaseno3.html

It sounds like this is *exactly* what you need to do.  Oh, how I wish we hadn't lost the old forum, because I'd point you to my bodice-fitting woes of last summer!  Suffice it to say this is what was recommended to me, and this is what I did.  You make the dart on the mockup only, then lay the darted mockup on your pattern, and trace the new shape of the piece onto the pattern.  You won't need the darts in the finished version, because the shape will now be correct.

Here's a picture of the gaping armscye in the mockup.

And here is the final mockup after darting out the excess.

And the finished dress.

Offline amber_freya

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Re: strap help needed
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2008, 12:46:02 PM »
Thank you for both of your help.  I'm not sure yet if I will remove the princess seam though I'm thankful that there are ways to disguise it.  It will totally be interesting though to try and figure out what angle I need to use though.  Tee hee.  It was uber wonky at times though cuz it totally was longer than it should have been for two of the pieces on the bottoms.  Eeh oh well. 
*Think of me, think of me fondly
When we've said goodbye.*

Offline gem

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Re: strap help needed
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2008, 01:14:33 PM »
If you're hoping to get any support at all from this bodice, the princess seam will absolutely KILL that hope.

Think of it this way:  A princess seam is there to allow the garment to curve smoothly over the bust.  But you don't WANT a bodice to curve *over* the bust--you want it to push the bustline either flat (for H/A) or upward (for Fairwear).  A princess seam is engineered to do the exact opposite. (It's also a needlessly fussy step added to the construction of a bodice.  I've made one bodice with princess seams and three without--and without goes much more smoothly and quickly.)

Baroness Doune

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Re: strap help needed
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2008, 06:52:45 PM »
Heh.  For those of us of ordinary proportions, there is only one option  - upward. 

I find flattening to be rather uncomfortable.  I can't imagine that those who have more "assets" would find flattening any more comfortable than I.  On the other hand, a shelf in the vicinity of the chin does not look comfortable either. 

To me, and generally speaking, what makes the difference between HA and fairwear is the amount of coverage of the upper chest.

FaireMare

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Re: strap help needed
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2008, 02:10:09 AM »
Excellent Thread.. another that I am prinint off for our costuming meeting next month.

Offline gypsylakat

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Re: strap help needed
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2008, 01:06:07 AM »
actually... those shelfs are not so bad... lol nice to take a small nap when you get tired....

Keep on going, I'm sure you'll be able to get your bodice to fit properly... and if you can't... well it's an excuse to get/make more!
"A kiss can be a comma, a question mark or an exclamation point.
That's basic spelling that every woman ought to know."

Offline amber_freya

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Re: strap help needed
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2008, 02:09:44 AM »
Funny thing is, even though i've gone ahead and used the princess seam, it will all turn out ok.  Yes, I know it's not ha, but gosh darn it I work and have The Grand Thing in two day's time.  Believe it or not, I think it won't be terrible simply because I went ahead and lined it with some duck cloth so even though the pattern isn't great and I've slanted the sleeves, my next rendition will definitely include the lack of that particular seam.  It's a peasant bodice anyway since most of the materials I'm using were, with the exception of the duck cloth that I had extra, were either cheap, with the outside being $1 a yard from walmart, or given to me.  I think the weird part was I had to lengthen the pattern on top of it all.  Gaaahhh, sometimes I love commercial patterns and sometimes I hate them. 

And yes, I like shelfs too.  I in fact usually have my own that are quite ample.
*Think of me, think of me fondly
When we've said goodbye.*

FaireMare

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Re: strap help needed
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2008, 08:13:53 PM »
Great attitude there miLady....  It will help you go far in keeping this fun and not drudgery.

 

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