Pls help: project skills/techniques CLASS UPDATE

[gem]

As most of you know, I've been in various stages of planning a reproduction of this gown (c. 1500 tapestry).  I have all the materials, and I've been fiddling with pattern drafting and fitting for more than a year.  I've never made it past the fiddling/planning stage, and I'm frustrated with myself.  So I've signed up for a course at the shop where I bought my new sewing machine.  It's kind of guided studio time--you choose a project, and the instructor helps you complete it.

Well, I got the course instructions this weekend, and here's what it says:

You may have an idea of what project you might be interested in sewing.  That is fine.  One guideline I like to use is, count the number of skills you'll be learning on each project and select only 3 new skills you haven't done before.  For example, new skills might be collars, cuffs, yoke, waistband, lining, sleeves, binding, placket, loops, buttonholes, etc.  Just select three you haven't done before."

Now I'm stumped.  The course flyer also talks about picking out patterns, &c.  I don't exactly have a pattern in mind, and I'm not sure that (or how) this project fits those "choose skills" guidelines.  I'm going to a course preview open house on Thursday night (5/28), so I'll get to talk to the instructor, but I'd like to be able to talk to her in terms where she *won't* discourage me from taking her class.  (That fear may be unfounded, but I'd still like to be prepared.)

My plan was to construct it as two kirtles (the red under-kirtle and the black/green overgown), like the one at Drea Leeds's site, or in THE TUDOR TAILOR.  I also have the Margo Anderson Elizabethan Woman pattern to work with.  I still haven't decided whether to try and make the red kirtle supportive (like in TUDOR TAILOR), or whether to wear it over a corset (this will depend on how well my corset fits on June 8, the start of the class! LOL).  The course is only five weeks, so I think concentrating on the red kirtle & sleeves makes the most sense (I did make the smock last summer).

I actually feel like I *have* (most of) the skills to make this, if I could buckle down and just do it.  I think this class will really help me stay motivated.  I desperately want to be around other real-live people who are sewing, particularly somebody who knows more than I do.  My last attempt at sewing lessons was utterly catastrophic, and nearly put me off sewing forever, so I'm sure that's coloring my approach to this at the moment.  But I am concerned that the instructor will look at the fact that I don't have a real pattern, and that these are historical tailoring skills and maybe that's not her thing... and that she won't really be interested in taking on such a student.

So... help?  Any ideas?

Thanks!!

[Kate XXXXXX]

Take a sheet of paper.

List ALL the skills you will need to complete this project, whether or not you already have them...  They might include:

Sewing bias cut skirts - those look like circular skirts to me.
Edge to edge lining - bagging a skirt to line it.
Boning a bodice
Making piping
Drafting a pattern
Fitting straight woven trims to curved edges...

And so on.  Take your list to the pre-course open house and ask about it when you see the tutor.  MOST of the guidelines on the sheet will be aimed at 'ordinary' dressmaking, but all the actual sewing skills used are useful on less mundane projects.  Use this meeting to test the water.

[PrincessSara]

gem, since you posted that you were starting that project I also got really interested in the early 1500s styles and I've been doing a lot of research on them too.  I have a bunch of portraits from the era (if you want them) as well as some

For mine, and it may work for yours too, I was looking at doing the undergown as a kirtle similar to the way done by Marie Chantal Cadieux - she has pages on kirtles with waistlines and kirtles without waistlines, and for your particular dress the one with a waistline would probably work best.  She's based her patterns on portraits from the 1480s-1500s.

The interesting thing she talks about is that using a linen with a bit of stretch for the undergown gives pretty decent support when it fits well.  She only uses one layer of linen but La Cotte Simple recommends two layers when making a fitted gown, which makes sense to me.  So you may or may not need support in the undergarment.  If you do decide to though I would recommend hemp boning as it will provide a smooth shape while still showing the curve of the bust, which in my research was the style at the time.

Otherwise, I think Kate mostly covered what skills you'll need for this project.  It depends on how you plan to make it.

[mollymishap]

Hmm...

My first thought is to ask about her experience with couture techniques.  That's right, couture.  As in "Haute Couture".  My sense is that the techniques that you're likely to find most useful and that actually resemble what was done in period still live on in the "mundane" world of high fashion. 

I say this from personal experience: I learned to sew from my mother, who learned to sew from her auntie who was a couturier.  I'd always seen my mother draft her own patterns, and I just thought it was the way it was done.  I remember the first time I bought a commercial pattern and I got all turned around & confused because the order of assembly didnt' make any sense to me.  Modern patterns call for short-cuts in construction that just don't work if you're trying to make a tailored garment...or a period styled garment.  It wasn't until about 8 years ago that I realized that what I had learned was a more specialized type of sewing until I picked up a book on couture techniques and realized I already knew a lot of the stuff in it. 

Just because you can sew does not mean you can draft patterns or make custom garments.  If your tutor is not a tailor or couturier, she may just not know (you're gonna laugh) as much as you know when it comes to creating one-of-a-kind individually custom tailored garments. 

So my advice is to ask her what her experience is in drafting patterns and in the use of couture techniques.  Bring with you some of the garb you've made: your gamurra & the cute 18th c. outfit you made for your book signing so she can get a sense of what you already know how to do.  Then bring a pic of the garb you're wanting to make, and she can help you figure out what additional skills you're likely to need...and if she is able to teach them to you.

[operafantomet]

I say this from personal experience: I learned to sew from my mother, who learned to sew from her auntie who was a couturier.  I'd always seen my mother draft her own patterns, and I just thought it was the way it was done.  I remember the first time I bought a commercial pattern and I got all turned around & confused because the order of assembly didnt' make any sense to me.  Modern patterns call for short-cuts in construction that just don't work if you're trying to make a tailored garment...or a period styled garment.  It wasn't until about 8 years ago that I realized that what I had learned was a more specialized type of sewing until I picked up a book on couture techniques and realized I already knew a lot of the stuff in it. 

Just because you can sew does not mean you can draft patterns or make custom garments.  If your tutor is not a tailor or couturier, she may just not know (you're gonna laugh) as much as you know when it comes to creating one-of-a-kind individually custom tailored garments. 

So my advice is to ask her what her experience is in drafting patterns and in the use of couture techniques.  Bring with you some of the garb you've made: your gamurra & the cute 18th c. outfit you made for your book signing so she can get a sense of what you already know how to do.  Then bring a pic of the garb you're wanting to make, and she can help you figure out what additional skills you're likely to need...and if she is able to teach them to you.

I just wanted to say.... That's a really interesting and good reply!

[gem]

You guys, thank you so much!!

Kate, I'm working on my list right now.  And Molly, *brilliant* idea to actually take my other pieces.  I was going to bring photos, but that's even better!  Now to figure out what to smuggle them out of the house in, so Milord doesn't think I'm cracked! LOL

I'm planning to bring my copy of TUDOR TAILOR with, as well.

Wish me good fortune, gentles!

[gem]

UPDATE!

Well, we got to the class preview ridiculously late, of course, and everyone else had already gone home... so I got the instructor all to myself! Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!!  (Until close, no less, which is a little embarrassing.)

She was totally enthusiastic about me taking the class, looked at the pictures I brought, and then settled down for a good look at The Tudor Tailor!  (She was completely fascinated by the false undersleeves of the Henrician gown, and I think she was a little disappointed when I said I was making a sleeveless kirtle. )

We hatched a plan for the red underkirtle, and I'm going to get started on scaling up the TT pattern and working on getting a close-to-fitting bodice muslin... then she wants me to come back and meet with her alone before the class actually starts so we can really get our strategy down, tweak the bodice fit, figure out the skirt attachment, etc.  How awesome is that!!

It sounds like lots of people take this class for the same reasons I'm taking it, and she said people often take it over and over again.  The really funny thing is, I left there thinking, "I know what I need to do; I can totally do this... why do I need a class?" LOL!  And then I smacked myself, because that's *precisely* why I'm taking the class!  So I'll just get off my (insert period-appropriate word for @ss) and make it, already!!

The last thing she said as I left the store is, "We'll get it made."   !!!

HUZZAH!

[Kate XXXXXX]

That sounds like exactly the approach I would take to teaching this class.  And yes, sometimes what we need is a mentor cheering us on rather than an actual instructor.

[Marietta Graziella]

Hurray for Gem!  This is going to be such an amazing gown.  Happy sewing to you!

[sealion]

Yay! It sounds like this class will be a great experience!

[Lady Rosalind]

I can't wait to see this gown!!!