Rules Disscussion and Ideas

[Marcos Charron]

Jack, et al

We are making this way harder than it needs to be, that's what happen when too many people have a hand in making a decision. There is rioting in the streets of some country tonight over an election that both sides think they have won, let's not have it here. Faire is way too important to my days off to make someone upset because i have a different view than theirs. Let's be friends, OK?

That said, I am willing to take AZRF out of the running for Rendevous by stepping down as the host. I know that there are no other people who want to host here, so that might solve a bit of this conflict.

I want our time at faire to be a happy one, I can plan special events for those who want to come and make the time a memorable one for all. That way those that cannot go to Rendevous, and can make it here, get the best of both worlds.

Viscomte

[Cobaltblu]

This thread should be for discussing the proposed rules and that has nothing to do with Arizona or any other faire.  We should intellectually discuss the issues and not get involved emotionally.

In the end the mods will decide on the rules and they have asked for our input here.

Regards,

CB

[*Teach*]

Secret vote?  We're not deciding national security issues here, I don't care if anyone knows how I voted.  Whattaya gonna do if i don't vote for your faire, sic the mafia on me?  Not worried, got my own witness protection program (if ya wanna know what it is, ren-mail me) 

A renmail voting system is the best way because people don't all feel the way you do. I like my friends from all my faires and would very much not want to alienate any of them by voting against their faires.
If you want to vote out loud, go right ahead. I prefer secret ballots because people are far more willing to vote their true feeling when aren't concerned about being judged.
As I said, I won't vote in a public thread... .just ain't going to happen

*Hopping of the rum box now*

[Lady Renee Buchanan]

Was there a problem with the last 3 RenDezvous with people posting who they voted for in the voting thread?  I don't remember any, but then again, after a couple of glasses of Chaucer's mead, I don't remember too much.......   

[Lady Nicolette]

Kudos to Lady Jessica for opening this up for everyone's input, first of all. 

And I'm a moderator in this thread, so what I have to say can be taken with a grain of salt.  Or whatever else that measures into a grain that you might want that makes you happy.

My primary thoughts are that it's nice to have the areas available rotate throughout the country, regionally.  We might want to split it all up into more miles as opposed to actual regions to make it more fair?  I'm almost wondering if we should make a Faire area unavailable at all until all faires that are represented here with two people who want to host have had their turn and at least a chance of being chosen after satisfying the region or mileage requirement.  Just food for thought.   I know from having planned a RenDevous in the past that it's necessary to have more than one person involved, in case anyone becomes ill or needs to bow out for any reason. 

I hate it when people are urged to vote one way or another in any coercive manner, whether it be by renmail or in the threads, with the exception of "don't forget to vote for our home faire in the running" in the individual faire  threads.  I feel as though it's a personal choice.  I personally don't care if it's secret or not, but that's just me. 

I like the idea of grandfathering in people who may not post so much but have been active members for a long time nonetheless.  Just because you don't feel compelled to post a lot doesn't mean that you aren't in here frequently reading and feel like this is a community you belong to.

Once all of the people's ideas are in place and we've all discussed them I would like to see further discussion be put to rest.  This has happened every year and it's understandable with new members, etc.  But it makes it very difficult for us to actually make decisions in a timely manner.  For instance, if AZ is to be chosen, it comes up not long after MD this year, even though it's in a different calendar year (as per the rules, which is perfectly fine).  I would hate to see people have to miss AZ if it were the selected Faire because overlong discussion this year were to make it impossible.

[Lady Renee Buchanan]

Faires

1.The U.S. will be split into 7 sections:

a.Northeast: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York
b.East: Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Virginia, West Virginia
c.Southeast: Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi
d.Midwest: Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa
e.Southwest: Kansas, Missouri, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico
f.West: California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado
g.Northwest: Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska



Here's a very simple suggestion based on the list above.

There are 7 sections. Pull straws out of a hat to make them a,b,c,d,e,f,g.

Rotate sections every year, starting with A the first year, B the second, etc.

Then, people can vote for a state in that section on where they want the faire to be.  Have a rule that each state in the section must have a turn to host RenDezvous before the same state can host it again as long as there are other states that want to host it and have 2 people willing to host it from their faire.  If no one wants to host it, then a state that already had one can have another one, at a different location.

If there is no one in a section that wants to host a RenDezvous, then skip down to the next section.

If everybody knows in advance where the next section is, then they will have enough time to save up $.

An example, in case I didn't make sense:

Let's say Section A hosts the RenDezvous this year (let's say Maine, for example).
Next year, Section B has a turn.  Pennsylvania, New Jersey, & Delaware each offer to host.  Forum members vote between those & pick one.  Or other scenario:  Nobody in that section wants to host a RenDezvous.  Drop down to Section C, etc.
So, we go all through the sections in a few years.  We get back to Section A again.  Maine can't host it again unless every other state in that section declines.  And it will be a different faire than the one that hosted it this year (remember, we said this year Maine would host it when the example started).

[Blue66669]

Well, don't we figure that if any of these other areas had any wish to host that they would have come forward? As it is, there were 4 sections to choose from, and only 3 came forward with host groups.

[Athena]

I'm happy the rule about 25 posts has been changed so that long time members who haven't yet reached that number can vote. As for the rest, I have no problem with it, and have no qualms about making my choice public.

[Lady Renee Buchanan]

Well, don't we figure that if any of these other areas had any wish to host that they would have come forward? As it is, there were 4 sections to choose from, and only 3 came forward with host groups.

Yes, I agree with that the way the rules are now stated.  But if a group knows they have 2 years to prepare, maybe someone will be willing to step forward.  And in the meantime, there may be new members who have joined within that 2 years who would be willing to host.


I never had any problem with the old way, but if there are members that do, I'm just suggesting what could be a compromise. Faire's fun.  Let's not make it rocket science!   

[Lady Nicolette]

I do like your idea, Renee, it's a potential solution to the problem of one geographic area having more RenDevous' than any other, and may indeed encourage some to step up to host if they think the RenDevous may choose their faire, even though there aren't a large number of forum members in their area.

[Lairde Guardn]

Renee, I also like the idea as you put it, it would definitely ensure that each section got a chance before another section can run again and keeps the rendevous moving about.   

[LadyJessica]

Quote author=Cobaltblu
Regarding the "cannot post asking people to vote for XYZ faire" there should obviously be an exception allowing such posts in that Faire's Specific Forum Area (I.E. in the forum area with that faire's name).

Regarding the "No why my faire is better than your faire" rule, there should also be an exception for such posts in the forum of the faire which the person thinks is better.  If people in faire X want to discuss why they like their faire better than faire Y they should be able to do it.  Besides if this rule is used then a lot of posts from all over the forum would need to be removed which describe why people thought one faire was better or worse than another.  If this rule was used it would chill any discussion comparing different faires.

In the past we did allow this.  But the people for other faire did look into those thread and it sometimes turned pretty nasty.  That's why there is a rule for it.

Regarding no renmails asking for votes...in theory this sounds like a good idea however in practice any number of communications or discussions via renmail could be construed as violating the rule.  The moderators shouldn't moderate what people discuss in private communications.

We know we can't stop people from RenMailing asking for votes but there have been people in the past that have RenMailed the same people over and over again asking for vote and it just got a little annoying to those people that were getting the RenMails.

I suggest having people renmail votes to two selected moderators and therefor no votes would be posted publicly in a vote thread.  This would assure anonymity.  The moderators could then count and compare the vote results.  This would remove any politics and everyone could vote however they liked in anonymity.

This wouldn't be a bad idea.

The 25 vote count requirement should remain because it represents the important principle that we want people who participate in the forums to be the ones who vote.

Readers/Lurkers are important as well they may not speak up as much but when they do they usually have a good thing to say.  I know several of the low posters were from the old forum and even there they lurked but they had a year or 5 to build up their post count.

Regards,

CB

[LadyJessica]

Quote author=Lairde Guardn MCrack
1st Proposed rule change under "Faire"

No section that has already hosted a rendevous or is scheduled to host a rendevous will be considered again until all other sections have had a rendevous or a section that has not had a rendevous fails to propose a faire for selection. 

If for some reason we fail to get a proposed faire from an area that has not already hosted a rendevous, then the process will be open to all areas except the current and/or scheduled rendevous areas.

(this rule will ensure that each section of the country will get a fair shot at hosting the rendevous)

Give me a timeline; how long would you give people from those sections that haven't had a RenDezvous to come forward as hosts before you open it up again?

2nd Proposed rule change under "Faire"

A state within a section that has already held a rendevous, will not be eligible to run again until at least one other faire from another state in that section has hosted a rendevoux or if no other state from a section proposes to host a rendevous and the section is eligible, then the same state can propose a faire.   

(this rule will ensure that more states get a fair shot a hosting a rendevous)


Once again give me a timeline; how long would you give people from those states that haven't had a RenDezvous to come forward as hosts before you open it up again.

I agree with the voting rule change of 25 posts or 6 months if under 25 posts.....it makes it fair for the quiet types that don't post and just lurk or find information on the forum.

Proposal for change to voting for Rendevous

I think that we could come up with a Voting Committee, to include mods and at least one representative from each area of the country.  Then create a group email address so that one email goes to every member of the committee.   Then members must email their vote to the one address, then the Committee will be able to count the votes and ensure that each has the same count based on the emails.

(this will ensure that votes are kept private and that there is a system of checks and balances)

I will talk to the admins about this to see if it is possible.

[Cobaltblu]

Quote author=Cobaltblu
Regarding the "cannot post asking people to vote for XYZ faire" there should obviously be an exception allowing such posts in that Faire's Specific Forum Area (I.E. in the forum area with that faire's name).

Regarding the "No why my faire is better than your faire" rule, there should also be an exception for such posts in the forum of the faire which the person thinks is better.  If people in faire X want to discuss why they like their faire better than faire Y they should be able to do it.  Besides if this rule is used then a lot of posts from all over the forum would need to be removed which describe why people thought one faire was better or worse than another.  If this rule was used it would chill any discussion comparing different faires.

In the past we did allow this.  But the people for other faire did look into those thread and it sometimes turned pretty nasty.  That's why there is a rule for it.

Ok, however enforcement of this rule will have to be done with great care and common sense since it could be interpreted to prohibit any comparison of difference faires or expressions of pride over one's home faire.

Perhaps a moratorium on any such posts ONLY during the time period started by the first official moderator post about looking for the next year's Rendezvous faires and ending with the conclusion of the voting for the next year's Rendezvous site.  This would allow people to compare different faires at will during the rest of the year but limit the extent of this "extensive" post restriction to the period of time when it may be needed.

Also will any existing posts like this be deleted?

In general I am extremely opposed to any restriction regarding what people can discuss, but think this rule could be very valuable if implemented in the right manner.

Regarding when rules for Rendezvous, in general, are in effect perhaps we make all rules ONLY be in effect during that time period from when the first moderator posts are made until the final voting ends?

Regards,

CB

[Anna Iram]

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking people to be respectful at ALL times. We all love our faires but there's never any reason to compare faires with the thought to citing you faire as being the better. Not in any way. That's why we have Rendezvous and gatherings, because we are all so different and it's nice to be able to come together as one once a year. We choose as a group to give a particular faire the honor of hosting us and showing us their own brand of fun. It's not a competition. It's about sharing.

Renmail spam, just in bad taste. Not overly fond of being emailed and reminded to vote...preferably for this particular faire or that. It reminds me of the Barbara Bush spam calls a few yeras back when her son was running. Don't do it, you just look like a fool in the end and do more harm than good.

I am of course fine with grandfathering in those members who have been with the forum for at least six months prior to the voting, even without 25 posts.

I don't personally have a problem making my vote public, but I can understand why others might. I do like to see a "I voted" thread in place though. It adds to the excitement. It's not important to know for whom you voted, just that you took part.

Renee, I like the idea as well.  I've been thinking that perhaps the reason we don't have many faires step up is that people forget it's that time of year again and don't get the discussions going in their group in time. I think if everyone in group A,, for example knew that next year in particular they'd have their chance they'd have things lined up and ready to go. I know I've heard many people say "I hope we get Rendevous some year". Perhaps this will inspire them to get a plan together in time to present. They'd have a year, knowing they would be in the running, to get to know more members if they don't already and to talk up their faire a bit. It would also give the rest of us a year to focus on those faires in that particular region. Getting to know them better and perhaps finding we have more friends at faires we can travel to. I like this.