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Mid-Tudor Portraits/Wardrobe Accounts

Started by PrincessSara, July 09, 2009, 12:21:46 PM

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PrincessSara

I'm looking to choose fabrics for my Tudor ensemble soon, and I need to know what fabric types are HA.  I have some portraits, mostly from the 1530s, but pretty much every dress look like it's made of velvet.  I know that people would have their portrait done in their best outfit, and I don't think everything would have been made out of velvet.  I already have a gown in velvet and it's really too heavy for me so I'd like to make something out of a slightly lighter fabric (yes, I know it's supposed to be heavy, but it doesn't need to be that heavy).  I'm also costuming for the 1520s but I couldn't find many portraits from then.

So I'm looking for portraits/illuminations/other images of Tudor-era ladies, and they can be French or English or Flemish or whatever.  I'm also looking for wardrobe accounts or household accounts that would list what garments were made out of, ie. "red mockado for a verdingale at 4s 5d a yard" or "my beste kyrtle of scarlette clothe" etc.etc.

gem

Check out Kimiko Small's website.  She has collected lots of images of early period French hoods; most of them are headshots only, but there are a few whole-body pictures, as well.

And presumably you've already looked through Tudor Tailor, right?  There are some images in there (like the panel from Splendor Solis, and the fair painting) that show a variety of dress.

You can also search www.wga.hu (Web Gallery of Art) by era, for things like Holbein's Darmstadt Madonna.

bellevivre

second the WGA! But be careful-lol several evenings can be spent browsing and drooling!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Belle the Kat

Clan Procrastination's Ambassador to the Seelie & UnSeelie Courts

operafantomet

Quote from: PrincessSara on July 09, 2009, 12:21:46 PM
I'm looking to choose fabrics for my Tudor ensemble soon, and I need to know what fabric types are HA.  I have some portraits, mostly from the 1530s, but pretty much every dress look like it's made of velvet.  I know that people would have their portrait done in their best outfit, and I don't think everything would have been made out of velvet.  I already have a gown in velvet and it's really too heavy for me so I'd like to make something out of a slightly lighter fabric (yes, I know it's supposed to be heavy, but it doesn't need to be that heavy).  I'm also costuming for the 1520s but I couldn't find many portraits from then
Fine brocades is never wrong when it comes to English fashion. Symmetrical patterns, often with a big pomegranate-ish motif, will take you far. If you pair that with hanging velvet sleeves, I'd say you have a funky dress that's not too heavy.

I love inventory lists, as they give a lot of info. Problem with inventory lists is that some fabrics are listed after the colour they're dyed of, as this would indicate both what fibre/weave was used, how the fabric looked, and how expensive it was. Experts can "intepret" such lists easily, while lots of info might be lost for us mortals. Of course this doesn't apply for all inventory lists, but when you find phrases like "scarlette clothe" or "monachino" you might want to remember that it gives a clue on more than the colour only. On the other hand, especially fine fabrics (for example velvet or rich embossed brocade) is often specified. It's the cost of the fabric that's interesting, and whereas the colour was an indication of how expensive the fabric was, the weave would also push the price up if it was extraordinary. With exceptions - always with exceptions.

And yes, I second the suggestion of WGA - it's a God-given internet site. I cannot praise it enough! :)

Cilean



Do you own the Tudor Tailor? I can not stress this book enough on fabric help as the authors document different fabrics from our specific time and any modern equivalents.  I third Kimiko's site and work and Margo Anderson will be bringing out her Tudor patterns to the market soon, it was based on Kimiko's research.  Remember it was very cool at this time and you can tell that most of the portraits we have were created in the Fall Winter months.


Do look at this gown



Notice the patterns involved in this gown



This is a sketch but it might suggest woolen broadcloth or some of the other.  Silk taffeta would make such a gown.


Now this one could be wool or even silk but is probably wool in fabric, in a velvet or a twill, but notice the pattern on her sleeves and kirtle.


This portrait does show the 'pomegranate' motif so you might want to look for fabrics with a similar design.

Cilean


Lady Cilean Stirling
"Looking Good is not an Option, It is a Necessity"
My Motto? Never Pay Retail

PrincessSara

Yes, I do have the Tudor Tailor and have taken every wardrobe reference I can find from it.  The problem is that they don't mention a whole lot of outer gowns worn by nobility in their wardrobe accounts.  And although they list some of what the fabric was used for, I'd like to read some wardrobe accounts as well.  I also know that sometimes the name of a cloth was a colour; I am aware that scarlet cloth was a very finely made wool.

I've already been all over the WGA looking at Holbein's and Clouet's work, but if anyone has more artists' names that would be useful.

Also, as I said in my first post, I am well aware that the dresses then were made of heavy cloth, and I am also aware that people had their portraits painted in their best gowns and so these gowns may not have been for everyday wear.  I would just like something that's a bit less heavy than fur-lined velvet because I have muscular issues and I have a hard time carrying something that heavy around on my body all day.

Thanks for the link to Kimiko - I hadn't been to her site in so long that I'd forgotten about it. 

I should probably let y'all know that I'm doing a high-nobility dress - I'm either playing Dorothy Howard (the Duke of Norfolk's sister) or Maude Percy (the Earl of Northumberland's daughter).

operafantomet

Quote from: PrincessSara on July 10, 2009, 04:07:23 PM
Yes, I do have the Tudor Tailor and have taken every wardrobe reference I can find from it.  The problem is that they don't mention a whole lot of outer gowns worn by nobility in their wardrobe accounts.  And although they list some of what the fabric was used for, I'd like to read some wardrobe accounts as well.  I also know that sometimes the name of a cloth was a colour; I am aware that scarlet cloth was a very finely made wool.

I've already been all over the WGA looking at Holbein's and Clouet's work, but if anyone has more artists' names that would be useful.
As for WGA and similar sites, you can type in "unknown master", "English school" or just "unknown" in the artist field and see what comes up. Portraits has been a secondary art field when it comes to research (luckilly it isn't anymore), which means there's lots of good portraits without a sure attribution.

Not sure what other artists you can seek out. Famous contemporaries worked mostly in other countries (Dürer, Leonardo, Raphael etc) and hence shows a different clothing style. Holbein also inspired later English artists, such as Nicholas Hilliard, but again: another style than what you aimed for. But maybe Hans Eworth? Antonis Mor? Lucas Horenbout?

Try this site for various nice portraits: http://www.marileecody.com/images.html
(sorry if it has been suggested already and I've missed it...)