Munchausen Syndrome

[Welsh Wench]

I was doing some medical research for a school project and one thing led to another.  I wondered if anyone has ever heard of Munchausen Syndrome? And I don't mean the movie, The Adventures of Baron Munchausen.  
 
It is closely associated with something called malingering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchausen_syndrome

[knarlyknot]

yes, I've heard of it, there is also Munchausen's by Proxy which is even worse, in this version a person makes someone else sick for the attention, typically mothers and their children.

[Zaubon]

yes, I've heard of it, there is also Munchausen's by Proxy which is even worse, in this version a person makes someone else sick for the attention, typically mothers and their children.

Sorry to say that this one seems to make the news every couple years. It's a scary world we live in.

[renren]

yes, I've heard of it, there is also Munchausen's by Proxy which is even worse, in this version a person makes someone else sick for the attention, typically mothers and their children.

Sorry to say that this one seems to make the news every couple years. It's a scary world we live in.

Indeed,very scary!

[Lord Finger]

I followed the "see also" link to Munchausen by Internet - people are weird

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchausen_by_Internet

[Welsh Wench]

It appears to be alot more prevalent than we think--

http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2001/06/44245

It reminds me of that line in What About Bob?
'If I fake it, then I don't have it!'

[Anna Iram]

My thoughts are, even if you suspect a friend may have Munchausen, don't look upon it as "less" than a "true" illness.  Send compassion and love anyway. Illness in any form is a dark place to be and "Source" is an infinite supply of Light.

[Athena]

Agreed, sufferers of Munchausen should be looked on with compassion, but duping people isn't right. One can only cry wolf so many times before the fabrications catch up to them.

[Joyce "Delfinia DuSwallow" Howard]

Yea, thats really sad. There was a lady on the news here for crap she did to her little girl.Something has to be really wrong with you when you can make your own children sick for attention.

[Charlotte Rowan]

My thoughts are, even if you suspect a friend may have Munchausen, don't look upon it as "less" than a "true" illness.  Send compassion and love anyway. Illness in any form is a dark place to be and "Source" is an infinite supply of Light.

Well said. It is a viable, treatable mental health condition.

It is featured on House quite often.

[Marietta Graziella]

Wasn't this condition the premise of one of the dead people on The Sixth Sense?  She was poisoning the little girl with cleaner.

[Betty Munro]

I've seen it used as a plot line in many shows.  The Sixth Sense was just one of them.
We do indeed live in a sick world.

[groomporter]

There's a big to-do in Jerusalem currently about an Orthodox woman they say may be suffering from Munchausen's by Proxy and staving her son.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31943767/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/

[Julianne]

My mother has Munchausen Syndrome.

Growing up watching her deliberately do things to herself that made her sick was heartbreaking to watch.  I often blamed myself in the child's way of thinking for her "illnesses".  She does enjoy taking her pills, it makes her happy.  

It's a clear and concise line between Munchausen Syndrome and Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy.  And then there is also the Hypochondriac and related nuerosis/psychosis in relation to "germ" phobias.
Except that all of these illnesses have one thing in common and that is Narcissistic Personality Disorder and sometimes Narcissistic Psychosis.

I can only wonder what my mother was lacking from her own childhood that drove her to this dark place.

It's not a tableside chat and it's not novel.
And please don't get me wrong, I loved my Mother very much growing up.  It's unfortunate that I have had to maintain no contact with her for more then 15 years now for my own and my family's good health.
As the touch of mental disease can affect many generations.

[Welsh Wench]

One reason I brought the subject up is a family member, while she may not be a Munchausen candidate, runs to the ER for every little thing. She also takes her kids to the hospital ER if they have the slightest fever.

She was in the healthcare industry and I sometimes wonder if she likes the drama and excitement of the hospitals.

And for that, I blame the TV shows.....
Hospitals are neither exciting or glamorous.


Munchausen by Internet seems to be a new phenomena. The trouble is, sometimes they list so many symptoms, it goes into overkill. And that is what makes it suspicious.
As the article says, they seem to find online forums where people don't know them and they can garner support and sympathy.

As Julianne said, you wonder what is lacking in their own lives that drives them to do this.

[Julianne]

I majored in Clinical Psychology initially.
I couldn't maintain the amount of "acceptance" that was required.  Maybe that was because of my lack of compassion of "what ifers".  Eventually, my degree was Industrial Psychology...yeah it is what it is - Profiling.

That old law of for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...I might have embraced the opposite side.
I disdain hospitals and those who find comfort in them.
I won't take a pill unless I absolutely have to.

Self-diagnosis is okay when we are talking about illnesses that are very common and very treatable with over the counter medication.  This is good.

WW, initially your relative sounds a tad hypochondrical.   However, it could also be a situation of better insurance bringing a more efficient outcome through hospital visits.  The two concepts are worlds apart.
In another thread I believe there is an interesting conversation about that.
My opinion on that is:  In the USA I'd love to see everyone (legal or not) receiving the same quality of health care and charged based on their ability to do so.  No income should not be relative to quality of healthcare received.

Mental illness in this country is still mostly perceived as a characteristic flaw.
I learned through education that my Mothers "flaws" are because of her mental illness.  Otherwise, I'm sure she would have been a wonderful mother and grandmother.

I still try to count my blessings with her as my Mother.  It's the right thing to do.

[Anna Iram]

I think it's something we all have within us. My mother, too, learned to be a victim and to garner sympathy early on in life. Not to this degree, but in other ways equally harmful ways. I think it was the only way for her to get attention and to feel loved. It's difficult for me to connect with her because I so don't want to be like that and it hurts to see someone hurting themselves. I do try to remember that the people that come into our lives serve as a mirror to help guide us onto better paths. Anyway, that's how I chose to see it.

The whole internet thing...I guess folks use forums for all kind of reasons. There's lot's of wonderful people out there and Lot's of screwballs. You just have to trust your instincts and not let your guard down too much.

[Julianne]

Munchausen Syndrome can come in varying degrees.  Some people feel the need to broadcast their ailments all the time to receive sympathy.
And when one illness is explained another pops up.  They often lie about this test and that test being performed to discover the most modern ailment.
This is different then hypochondria.  Most hypochondriacs suffer in silence with the exception to their doctors.
And this is all very different then people just trying to live off the government tit.

Munchausen Syndrome affects EVERYONE.   Everyone has to be told and everyone has to come to the "aid" of the supposed sufferer.  And they will actually receive valuable medication then not take it.  And in the case of most....continue to do the things that they've been told not to do....and then in the worst case scenarios...ingest caustic substances.

It is interesting that most Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy persons will be more then happy to pour those caustic substances down the throats of their own children. Munchausen Proxy persons don't seem to ever be afflicted by the disease directly.

Go ahead and ask me what I think of MSbyP?

[Anna Iram]

1) So... what do you think of MSbyP?

2) The Government has a tit? Must sit in the ovary office...

[groomporter]

Mental illness in this country is still mostly perceived as a characteristic flaw.

Yeah it's odd that some insurance companies will only pay for so much mental health care, but will pay 100's of thousands for your heart -even though the statistics are that the number of people who don't change their lifestyles after a heart attack are reportedly to be about the same percentage as people who don't deal with their mental health issues after being diagnosed.

[Julianne]

Well...since you asked.

I'm a huge proponet of capital punishment when it comes to crimes against children.

[Julianne]

Mental illness in this country is still mostly perceived as a characteristic flaw.

Yeah it's odd that some insurance companies will only pay for so much mental health care, but will pay 100's of thousands for your heart -even though the statistics are that the number of people who don't change their lifestyles after a heart attack are reportedly to be about the same percentage as people who don't deal with their mental health issues after being diagnosed.

Heart ailments due to bad behavior are assuredly a self imposed death sentence as prescribed by health professionals and COMMON SENSE.

Mental illness can cause bad behavior but can't be directly linked to professional misdiagnosis.

[Muffin]

I read (and have re-read several times) a really great and fascinating book called - Sickened, by Julie Gregory about her childhood and teen years as a victim of Munchhausen by Proxy.

This disease intrigues me as well as saddens me..

[LadyElizabeth]

I'm kind of amazed to here there are people even on these forums that have folks who had these diseases...  I didn't realize how common they were.  I am so sorry to hear you had to deal with this so close to home!

My aunt on my moms side has a bad case of hypochondria, and honestly she might be bordering on munchausen's disease!!  She is constantly getting sick, and although I really don't think she directly makes herself sick, her belief in being sick really truly MAKES her sick.  She never lived near us though, she lived up in Kansas my whole life.  My mom said she used to like being sick as a kid to get the attention.  My mom was more the favored child unless the sister was sick and then she got the attention....  Maybe that's how it starts for many people.

[Julianne]

It's very important that everyone here understands the difference between wanting attention and the descent into mental illness.

Everyone wants to noticed.  Everyone wants attention.
This is a very normal and very human emotion. It makes you human and very sane.
You need not feel bad or ashamed or guilty for this.  This is normal.

We are talking about a condition that affects every breath you take and consumes daily life. 

[Charlotte Rowan]

I'm kind of amazed to here there are people even on these forums that have folks who had these diseases...  I didn't realize how common they were.  I am so sorry to hear you had to deal with this so close to home!

My aunt on my moms side has a bad case of hypochondria, and honestly she might be bordering on munchausen's disease!!  She is constantly getting sick, and although I really don't think she directly makes herself sick, her belief in being sick really truly MAKES her sick.  She never lived near us though, she lived up in Kansas my whole life.  My mom said she used to like being sick as a kid to get the attention.  My mom was more the favored child unless the sister was sick and then she got the attention....  Maybe that's how it starts for many people.

I used to suffer from an anxiety disorder that manifested primarily as hypochondria. Any time I had "flu-like symptoms," I was convinced I had cancer. I suffered for many, many years of mental anguish (from about age 8 until age 20) without any kind of treatment because mental health conditions simply were not as widely known as they are now. My parents were aware of and deeply concerned by my suffering never thought to mention it to my doctor. I in no way blame them - They did take me to a psychologist once, and even he didn't ask the right questions. Clearly, hypochondria is different from Munchausen's, but my point is that it had nothing to do with wanting or needing attention. Something went wrong in my brain, who knows why or when or how, and just like an ear infection or sinusitis, it needed to be fixed with medication. I no longer take the medication, and I am fine.

I am deeply disturbed by the way some people still perceive mental health conditions as character flaws. I am deeply disturbed by people who joke that they "are OCD" because they wash their hands a lot or are particular about certain things. My mother did suffer from OCD, but a) it did not define her (it's generally [referable to say someone HAS a condition or SUFFERS FROM a condition) and b) OCD is very serious and way more complicated than washing your hands a lot, which is simply good hygiene.

Sorry. Rant over.....