So I was wondering what you thought of ......

[Xanthenes The Unbalanced]

I would just like to say thank you to everyone who has posted here for keeping it so calm and polite. I am so grateful that so many of us have been able to come together, practice freedom of speech and respect. I know I am learning alot and will post more on my opinons on the topic once I have gathered one based on all this new information. As the one who started the topic, once again, thank you for being polite and allowing others their thoughts and views!

Love you all!

Dracconia

Gathering information before forming an opinion???  Congratulations on taking a very novel, and may I add, intelligent approach; no matter what opinion you form.

And thanks for starting the thread.  Always nice to have a civil debate.

// Sometimes I use slashies just for sashies' sake.

[Lady Nicolette]

This is precisely why this thread has been so great to view and respond to, since it all has managed to remain civilized...(the researching to form one's own opinion, not necessarily the slashes, although they have a certain appeal).  I do think that it is unique in that it is a bit political but also it's something that we all are concerned about in the mundane world...Hey, if you're still breathing you just may need a doctor sometime!

[Julianne]

"The article goes on to say the average small business with between five and nine workers had a payroll of around $375,000. This was in 2006. Aprox 1 million small businesses fell into this category. "

I work for a company that falls way far short of this.  Do I mind?...no
Working for a small family owned business...I know what I'm doing....I was aware when I got the job.
Currently, my husband's job provides our health care so this is not an issue.
If I was single...then I would have to apply for Medicare for me and my disabled child.  My employer gives me $70 a month towards health care.  He knows that falls short but its the best he is willing to do currently.

Simple as that.  Would we, my daughter and I,  get the same level of health care with medicare...hell no...and I know this as a fact.
The lesson is to provide for yourself...otherwise you fail as a parent.

I'll give you a direct example:  My daughter is disabled and entitled to Medicare due to her disability which all of you pay for through SS.
Medicare does not provide for any cardiovascular related illnesses required to be treated by a Doctor visit that my daughter needs due to a birth defect.   Medicare does not pay for hearing aids.
Medicare does not provide for orthotics needed for rheumatoid arthritis.
Medicare does not pay for echocardiograms.

Medicaid is even worse.  If my husband divorces me and try to support my daughter on my salary I am entitled to Medicaid.  Medicaid will pay for the emergency services related to these illnesses once they become a life-threatening condition.

I do believe that through Medicare and Medicaid we (as a tax-paying community) have tried to help the disadvantaged and disabled.... but the reality is that the system falls severely short of proper health care.
Especially when you consider our birth mortality rate in comparision to other countries.  It is also true however that many young women wait till it is far too late to seek medical help for problem pregnancies.  
But I find that to be stastically a shallow argument...sorry,  but the overall fact is that once poor girls and women decide to have their babies they want healthy babies and do what is necessary to have them thus...for the most part...the stereotypical pregnant junkie is still the rarity.  And the fact is that if a woman is on drugs when her baby is born...and the baby can't be care for...we separate them anyway...the 'Foster Child" is born.

The Vet...just wants what is his/her due.  And without media attention focused on there specific issue ...they won't get the treatments/therapy that they need.  VA hospitals are an abomination.  We should all be ashamed at the way unemployed disabled veterans are left there to die in deplorable conditions.  But hey...we do that to our own elderly every day.


Private insurance has paid for all of these things.


Do I approve of the measure...oh yes.

[SirRichardBear]

The biggest reason for our higher birth mortality rate is our high illegal immagration rate.  Its a double problem since they are not only among the poorest being illegal they are even more scared to get medical treatment than normal.   Nothing in the present plan before congress would solve that.  Free medical clinics would help but you would still have a problem convincing people that they were safe to visit.  The present plan going throught congress would most likely result in everyone being on medicaid with all its problems and no hope of anything getting better.

[Dracconia]

I do know that medicaid and medicare fall short of their goals and the needs of those on them. I do know that what we have isn't working. I do know that the millions of people who need health care needed it yesterday. I do know that we have billions of dollars in unpaid er bills due to the fact that those millions of people without health care go to the er for everything from a cough to a broken limb. The lack in family doctor visits and check ups results in conditions going untreated and worsening eventually costing more to fix or the inability to fix.

I do know that private sector health care has failed miserably.

I do know that so far what the gov't has provided has been a joke.

What I don't know is what to do to fix it, so I am open to suggestions.

I do know that sometimes even the best of intentions fail. So...we might have to fix some stuff as we go but at least we have someone in office that sees the pressing issues and addresses them....

So far that is my well informed opinion ..... still becoming imformed....but will post more

[Julianne]

The biggest reason for our higher birth mortality rate is our high illegal immagration rate.  Its

That is an incorrect statement as the US infant mortality rate does NOT include alien birth rates.
We lack far behind European rates considering all the socialized and nationalized health organizations of the various countries which are absolutely taken into statistical rationing.    

[Xanthenes The Unbalanced]

The biggest reason for our higher birth mortality rate is our high illegal immagration rate.  Its a double problem since they are not only among the poorest being illegal they are even more scared to get medical treatment than normal.   Nothing in the present plan before congress would solve that.  Free medical clinics would help but you would still have a problem convincing people that they were safe to visit.  The present plan going throught congress would most likely result in everyone being on medicaid with all its problems and no hope of anything getting better.

Actually, the biggest factor is African American women, with an infant mortality rate of 13.6 (per 1,000 live births), more than double that of 5.66 for Caucasian women.  Illegal immigration seems to play little, if any, role in the overall figures, as a quick look at further racial breakdowns shows:

Women of Cuban ethnicity in the United States had the lowest infant mortality rate -- 4.55 per 1,000 live births, according to the report by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

American Indian:  8.45
Puerto Rican:  7.82
Mexican:  5.47 (actually below the Caucasian average)
Asian/Pacific Islander:  4.67
Central/South American:  4.65

* Source:  Washington Post
** As the U.S. Census does not differentiate between citizen and non-citizen when determining infant mortality, each racial grouping consists of both.

Interestingly, one thing which really does cost a few tenths of a percent is the way we judge "live births", which we do differently than most European countries.  Canada switched to our system for a year and their infant mortality rate immedately rose by 0.3/1,000 live births.

I won't bore everyone with a huge analysis, but the more you dig into it, the more you find that the biggest factor in this country is income, regardless of citizenship.  Income = coverage.  Coverage = care.

[groomporter]

Isn't there some question about some of the infant mortality rate comparisons on how different countries interpret live births? Something like some countries count deaths within the first year and some only consider any successful delivery/live birth even if the infant dies later, or something like that??

Of course one of the things people don't consider is that lack of health care can become a public safety issue. As example, there was an outbreak of polio among the Amish a couple years ago due to their lack of vaccinations. It doesn't matter as much if you have coverage if the person next to you on the bus to work has TB, or if the ER is packed with uninsured people with preventable illnesses when you have a heart attack, or car accident.

[Charlotte Rowan]

Brilliant stats, as usual, Xanthenes. Always much appreciated!

[maelstrom0370]

Brilliant stats, as usual, Xanthenes. Always much appreciated!

He occasionally has his uses. 

[Rani Zemirah]

Lots of interesting opinions listed here... and lots of fascinating facts and figures.  Thanks for all of the wonderful research.  I'm not going to rehash all the arguments either for, or against, but I will say that the system as it stands is broken, and I, for one, am glad that at least something is being done to try and change it.  I doubt it will be enough to fix it, but at least it's a beginning, and nothing says that this bill will be considered the be-all and end-all of the issue.  I'm hopeful that the PTB's will keep working on it until it at least gets better...

[SirRichardBear]

You notice that they break hispanics into four different classifications those four combine to make up 75% of the illegal population. Combining them show a very different picture, and points to one of the biggest problems with today's health care.  The fact that people wait to long to get preventative treatment.  Most of that preventative treatment doesn't require seeing a doctor. Nurses and medics could do 70% of that type treatment.   But another nothing in the plan going through congress address any of the real problems all it does is take control from individuals and place it into the hands of the government.

I agree income is a big factor but don't forget that legal status plays a big part in a groups or individual income.  

look at cancer survival rates: colon and rectum (56.2% in Europe vs 65.5% in the United States), breast (79.0% vs 90.1%), and prostate cancer (77.5% vs 99.3%),

Death rate for stroke in Canada is 11.1% within 30 days compared to 7% in the USA.

While the present system has problems  and some of them are serious it is hardly broken.  The biggest risk today is that the government will totally break it like they did the drug problem.  The first priority should be to do no harm, then to fix the problems with a review process that requires the government to prove that their fixes work and if they don't they scarp them and try something else.

[Xanthenes The Unbalanced]

Brilliant stats, as usual, Xanthenes. Always much appreciated!

He occasionally has his uses. 

I firmly believe that I was put on this Earth to open pickle jars; nothing more, nothing less.  Any other service I may provide is merely a bonus, and purely accidental.

[Rani Zemirah]

As an enduring fan of pickles (dill, please... no sweet gherkins)... may I express my undying gratitude? 

[Leyla]

Chuck Norris thinks Obamacare is a bad idea.