News:

Welcome to the Renaissancefestival.com Forums!  Please post an introduction after signing up!

For an updated map of Ren Fests check out The Ren List at http://www.therenlist.com!

The Chat server is now running again, just select chat on the menu!

Main Menu

What do you think of plot?

Started by GirlChris, August 03, 2009, 08:21:08 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

GirlChris

I've been performing at various festivals for the past six years or so. But I don't have an act. I don't have a specific character. Ladies and gentlemen, I am a cast actor.

At several of the faires I've done, there has been a specific plot shown through various shows through out the day, introduced at opening gate and continued through three or four more shows throughout the day, with street improv to flesh out the story and tell people who missed the shows what's going on. So here's my question- do you care about the plot? Do you show up at opening gate and follow through to the end of the day, seeing how everything wraps up?

Just wondering...

analise

I've been known to follow it, to some extent. Though, uh, I often forget (save for some of the "bigger" bits that happen on stage) and then find myself pleasantly surprised when I run into something referring to it while traveling in the streets. ;)

Margaret

I don't think that general patrons know that there is a story line to the show, even though they may follow the fight scenarios throughout the day. 

They may know a bit about it due to character interaction (The King of Spain is here to try to marry the Queen!) but I think the people who follow it from begining to end are few and far between.
Mistress Margaret Baynham
The Sweete Ladye
IWG #1656 MCL
wench.org (IWG forums)
ibrsc.org (IBRSC forums)

Queen Maggie

To me, it's the best part of the faire. It puts the story in a specific real time, it gives real character to the actual historic personages, and it gives the actors a chance to really develop their character work (I too am a character actor in several faires)
Yes, I know there are many folks who couldn't care less. So what? there are others who don't care about the music, or the shopping, or the magic acts or the children's centers... you don't need to eliminate one part of the whole just because not every person cares for it...
I just want it to be as accurate as possible historically, so you don't misinform people about history (That said, if it's a 'fantasy faire' it makes no difference: I'm talking about  you don't make up a secret marriage for Queen Elizabeth, or such that will misinform the public who watch "the Tudors" and think they are getting accurate facts...)
Queen Maggie
wench#617, Bard #013
aka Mistress Mannerly, Goodlief Bailey, Cousin Undine Mannerly, Mother Lowe

L Dale Walter

Quote from: Margaret on August 04, 2009, 06:08:05 AM
I don't think that general patrons know that there is a story line to the show, even though they may follow the fight scenarios throughout the day. 

It all depends on how it is presented.  My company, Knights of Iron, pretty much defined this type of entertainment over the last 10 years.  What we have found is:


#1 use a story line that people are already familiar with, be it Robin Hood, Musketeers, King Arthur, or whatever, it is MUCH easier for people to grasp and follow a storyline that they at least have a passing knowledge of, rather than trying to educate on character AND plot all at once.  This year at MiRF we are doing Robin Hood.  When I introduce myself as "The Sheriff of Nottingham" not much else needs to be said.  They KNOW Robin Hood will be there, and they know the basis of the story.  If you are pitting "Lord William of Sussex" against "Sir Marcus of Trinoveer", ummm, WHO THE HELL ARE THESE GUYS?  Much harder sell.


# 2 Make it "good guys in white hats, bad guys in black hats", meaning EASY for the audience to differentiate the characters.


# 3 Provide visual appeal.  Make it interesting to look at.  When we did The Legend of King Arthur we abandoned the idea of good -vs- evil knights as that put everyone in surcoats and armor, and they all looked the same.  BORING.  So we decided to have the Arthur's knights (who were all dressed similarly, and looked like a team) fight against Mordred's "Finest Warriors Money Could Buy" which included a Saracen, a Ninja, an Amazon, and a Pirate.  Visual appeal.  Also, and I can't emphasize this enough PRETTY SELLS.  If your cast is attractive, expect better results.  If they are all fat, out of shape, and missing more teeth than they have, you have an uphill fight.  Costuming must match as well.  My Musketeers each had 2 complete Musketeer costumes, and multiple wigs so they could appear "perfect" throughout the day.  people didn't pay to see the wet, bedraggled musketeers.  They want to see the ones that stepped off a movie screen.  This is NOT cheap.  Each of my musketeer costumes was over $3000.

# 4 Hook the kids into the story.  We do this by distributing favors to the children from all of the "good guy" characters.  The favor must reflect something of the character giving them out.  Robin Hood gave out little arrows on pins.  The Musketeers had Fleur de Lis on pin backs.  The more you can get the children involved in the story, the more they will drag their parents. Interaction is key.  Your characters have to work the streets, and work them hard.  The more people you interact with, the higher your numbers will be.

#5 Do NOT count on the program to tell your audience where you will be.  We print cards that have show times, locations, and descriptions.  On the back they have a map with locations noted and times.  Give these out.

#6  Set up every scene so it leads into the next one.  Cliffhangers are great.  People want to find out what happens, and you need to make them want that.

#7 on that note, make the audience CARE about the characters.  To make your heroes more heroic, make your villains awful.  The more it looks like the good guys cannot win, the more the audience will love it when they do.  This is lifted right from Rocky.  Rocky couldn't win.  He didn't stand a chance.  But, somehow, against all odds, he found the heart to be a champion.  If your characters do that, your audience will respond.

I know many people say audiences don't follow scenario shows, but our numbers over the last 10 years say different.  Often our shows outdraw 3 or 4 stage acts combined.  People want to believe in heroes.  They want to be part of the action.  They want an immersive environment, where they feel as if they are invested in the action.  We have had our stumbles, and a learning curve, but when we open The Adventures of Robin Hood at the Michigan Renaissance Festival on August 22nd I am willing to bet that people will know there is a story line, and will follow the show.

See you in August!

L. Dale Walter
Director
Knights of Iron
www.knightsofiron.com  (website is currently in redevelopment - please bear with us!)

McGuinness

At PaRF, we put the plot into as many shows and street interactions as possible. This year especially, the goal is to take the story to the streets and make the patrons as involved in it as possible. I think it is true that a lot of people coming into a faire might not know what or if there is a storyline but its up to the cast of the show to make it important to them. I really like having a plotline as inspiration and motive throughout the day. I've only been to one other faire since I became involved and I really didn't hear a word about the plot the entire time I was there.

Katie Bookwench

Quote from: L Dale Walter on August 04, 2009, 08:55:56 AM


It all depends on how it is presented.  My company, Knights of Iron, pretty much defined this type of entertainment over the last 10 years.  What we have found is:


#1 use a story line that people are already familiar with, *Snip*
# 2 Make it "good guys in white hats, bad guys in black hats", meaning EASY for the audience to differentiate the characters.
# 3 Provide visual appeal.  Make it interesting to look at.  *snip*  Also, and I can't emphasize this enough PRETTY SELLS.  If your cast is attractive, expect better results.  *snip*
# 4 Hook the kids into the story.  We do this by distributing favors to the children from all of the "good guy" characters.  *Snip*  Interaction is key.  Your characters have to work the streets, and work them hard.  The more people you interact with, the higher your numbers will be.
#5 Do NOT count on the program to tell your audience where you will be.  *snip*
#6  Set up every scene so it leads into the next one.  Cliffhangers are great.  People want to find out what happens, and you need to make them want that.
#7 on that note, make the audience CARE about the characters.  To make your heroes more heroic, make your villains awful.  The more it looks like the good guys cannot win, the more the audience will love it when they do.  *snip*

OMG --

   *morning epiphany *

Dale Walter- the Renaisance Festival's very own VINCE MACMAHON!

:D :D :P :D :D
Katie O'Connell - Hollygrove Library
(aka The Bookwench)
Licensed Wench - IWG Local 57

L Dale Walter

Results don't lie.  My stage count numbers are huge, and Knights of Iron has a rabid following.  People like Knights of Iron shows.

Isn't that what entertainment is all about?

LDW

Katie Bookwench

Quote from: L Dale Walter on August 05, 2009, 04:42:22 PM
Results don't lie. *snip* Knights of Iron has a rabid following. 

I suggest taking those carrots out of your back pockets.

Oh...that was RABID! sorry.  ;D


Are you changing anything about your hawking or scene setting prep for this season, since your scenario is going to be a separate entity from the overall 'Show' Plot? Adding additional non-fight 'scenes' out front or just inside?

As far as I know, there is no mention of it in the Opening Scene at the gate - So it looks like it's more in your court to hawk your own scenes, like a stage or lane act. That's going to be different than in previous years, when the KOI story arc was more married into the show plot.






Katie O'Connell - Hollygrove Library
(aka The Bookwench)
Licensed Wench - IWG Local 57

L Dale Walter

Quote from: Katie Bookwench on August 05, 2009, 05:24:59 PM



Are you changing anything about your hawking or scene setting prep for this season, since your scenario is going to be a separate entity from the overall 'Show' Plot? Adding additional non-fight 'scenes' out front or just inside?

As far as I know, there is no mention of it in the Opening Scene at the gate - So it looks like it's more in your court to hawk your own scenes, like a stage or lane act. That's going to be different than in previous years, when the KOI story arc was more married into the show plot.


Actually as we are doing Robin Hood, it is pretty easy to set the show up.  No need for an elaborate into at opening gate.  The Vulgarian -vs- Court plot is a far harder sell.  Once someone hears "Hello I am Robin Hood" or "I am the Sheriff of Nottingham", it is pretty much set in motion.  The -know- the story, and the characters.

The plot runs similar to the Vulgarian thing, but is far more sinister.  Robin Hood uncovers Prince John's plot to kill QE, and put a Plantagent back on the throne, namely him.  He must fight from the shadows until he can prove Prince John a villain, and safeguard QE.

Over the past 4 years we have gotten very adept at tying scenes together, and hawking in and out.  Remember Silver Leaf had never seen ANYTHING like a Knights of Iron show, or really any kind of cohesive plotline.  Neither had Castle Farms in Charlevoix.  The Legend of King Arthur show, and the fact that we proofed The Adventures of Robin Hood in two other venues first, honed our ability to set up it up, and lock the audience in early.  The addition of the Robin Hood Academy of Swordsmanship, where 25 children are selected and train with Robin and the Merry Band, and then each get a chance to test their skills against the Sheriff, locks those kids into the plot, and they WILL NOT leave until they see what happens to their heroes.

So, the story arc does tie in, but does not require much support.  It is much more "drop in" then the Musketeer shows were.  It also allows the multiple story arcs, or at least the "premise" of the Vulgarian court to run without any interference of one with the other.

In addition, there are two "float" scenes, which are not scheduled, but can occur at any time during the day.  They are designed to give the show a more "organic" and less scripted feel.   One is a dramatic scene which serves to more firmly establish Robin and Marion's relationship and Marion as a string character, and the second is a comedic scene about Marion's questions about what Robin will want on their wedding night.  Both can fit anywhere into the show after Act II, but before the resolution.

So, yes it is a Knights of Iron show, but a different type of Knights of Iron show that MiRF has seen before.

L. Dale Walter
Director
Knights of Iron


Lady_Claira

I love the story, I may not follow it, but I always love it. I think it gives the actors in the faire something to talk about other than their character. When you make small talk it isn't about who you are necessarily, it is about the times and what is going on. This gives the actors at faire something to talk about. "The queen's barge just landed and she's on her way to give an address. I wonder what she'll say" Things like that.

I know that I am acting in my first faire this year and as an actor I'm thankful for the plot because like I said before it gives me a little something to work with when I'm acting on the street around the different patrons.

As for Robin Hood stories? Well, LDW, I LOVE them and I'd probably get sucked into your Robin Hood story almost immediately. Granted at NYRF this year I got a kiss from one of the Sheriff's guards and that made all the kids around me freak out. "Why are you letting an evil guy give you a hug" it was awesome! Your scenario sounds really awesome. :D
You see this training pin? It could be yours. You could learn all about wenches! And that's a promise! - My friend Mike

gem

There's a storyline like this--supposedly--at KCRF, where we have had season passes for at least seven years.  The storyline and events are mentioned in the brochures and daily schedule.  One year it was Cinderella.  Sometimes it's characters trying to woo the queen.  I always think it sounds fun.  I always keep my eye out for the story-related events/acts.

I have NEVER seen one.  Not once.  In seven years of going weekly, spending full days on site, and being aware of these ongoing stories.  Never.

Obviously this must be partly our fault, combined with bad timing, and whatever... but I do make it a point every time I go out to say, "Ok, let's try and catch part of the story today!"  But we have yet to be in the right place at the right moment, apparently, to catch any of the story.

So I'm *sure* it's great fun for the players, as Queen Maggie says, but from the POV of an average PLAYTRON and season passholder, it's actually kind of not any part of the experience at all.  I can't imagine how a casual fair-goer who comes once every five or six years would ever be aware of or able to follow it, if they even managed to find it.

Sorry, Chris.  :-\

L Dale Walter

Quote from: gem on August 16, 2009, 07:39:33 PM
There's a storyline like this--supposedly--at KCRF, where we have had season passes for at least seven years.  The storyline and events are mentioned in the brochures and daily schedule.  One year it was Cinderella.  Sometimes it's characters trying to woo the queen.  I always think it sounds fun.  I always keep my eye out for the story-related events/acts.

I have NEVER seen one.  Not once.  In seven years of going weekly, spending full days on site, and being aware of these ongoing stories.  Never.

Interesting.  I have been to KCRF twice, and had no trouble following the story.  One was even a musical version of The Hunchback of Notre Dame.  Saw the opening scene, followed the story to conclusion.  There was also a Robin Hood story line that I watched as well. 

Please note I am not at this faire every weekend.  I have been there 2 weekends (once in 2001, and once in 2005), and was working as a lane character as well at invitation of the ED.

Quote from: gem on August 16, 2009, 07:39:33 PM
I can't imagine how a casual fair-goer who comes once every five or six years would ever be aware of or able to follow it, if they even managed to find it.
I don't remember how KCRF advertised theirs, but I had no trouble finding, nor following it.  My characters, be they at MiRF, SLRF, or the now defunct CRF, made sure everyone knew there was a story, had supporting handouts, and hawked into, and out of every scene.  Our numbers are huge, and people follow the story, and come back time and time again to see it.  We also provide a synopsis and characters on our website, which is checked by our fans before attending a show we are at so they have times and locations.

Not sure how you missed the one at KCRF.

L. Dale Walter
Director
Knights  of Iron
www.knightsofiron.com

Margaret

Dale, I don't think you qualify as the *general* and *casual* patron that Gem is referring to.

Sure you only went to KCRF twice, however you are kind of uniquly qualified to spot a plot line and understand it, or see a fight scene and realize what it is.

The patron who goes to faire once a year is so overwhelmed by everything that is going on around them that I do not believe that they know there is a story line or plot to the day.
Mistress Margaret Baynham
The Sweete Ladye
IWG #1656 MCL
wench.org (IWG forums)
ibrsc.org (IBRSC forums)

temper

I adore it when I attend faires and it makes me sad when it isn't presented elsewhere.
Pastimes Entertainment does beautiful, involved storylines in small gorgeous locations and their audiences love it. (castles, turn of the century manor houses, state parks near the ocean)

The flip side is 'actorbation'  at other venues is when the performers forget they aren't just there to glorify their own characterization.

However, I've found that when you travel away from small venues that plot gets lost and most patrons want easy characters and hitty-stabby.  We did a fairly elaborate storyline for three years at one faire (we were the closest thing to 'cast') and when the venue changed so did our audience participation.  So at certain faires we take our cue from the defunct Renaissance Sword Theater
* describe your character in three adjectives, stick with it.
* Have a street schtick for the people who want to play along (and yes, we make an impression apparently)
* Don't be afraid to go for the obvious or the underdog.

But if we aren't official cast, we just don't bother :(
Temper; what makes a good sword, be sure to keep it.