Cut & Thrust side sword or Rapier? I'm finding conflicting info - please help

[Sullivans Bastard]

What would have been a more likely sword to be carried by a very middle class 1530-1560 merchant when he ventured out in public?

I'm considering these for myself:



I read one piece of information that says the side sword was popular with the common man on the street who might not have the swordsmanship training of a nobleman or soldier, and another place says it was pretty much a military sidearm only.

One thing that concerns me about a rapier is that I am a lefty, and affordable, under $300 rapiers all seem to be for right-handed users.

[Laird Fraser of Lovatt]

I'm not an expert but both of those blades look real close to period.  Rapier bladework takes training... a middle class merchant may be able to afford some training but not lots.  My humble opinion is that they'd probably serve you well.  Plain but well made.

[Harbinger]

I have that side sword, got it from kult of athena, its beautiful,
and I agree I think its well suited for either application, though it
seems to me if I were about then and had only a basic skill with
sword, I'd  take the rapier with the longer blade "keep my foes
a bit further away", and slashing can often be overdone and leave
one ill positioned for parrying, but thats just my .02
-h

[Sullivans Bastard]

I have that side sword, got it from kult of athena, its beautiful,
and I agree I think its well suited for either application, though it
seems to me if I were about then and had only a basic skill with
sword, I'd  take the rapier with the longer blade "keep my foes
a bit further away", and slashing can often be overdone and leave
one ill positioned for parrying, but thats just my .02
-h

Kult of Athena is where I plan to purchase both from. Great Prices!  Id like to find a main gauche that was a little closer match to the side sword, but I think this one will do.  I'd think that a perfectly matched sword & dagger/main gauche would be a provenance of the nobility and wealthier merchants anyway.

[Sir Sebastian Phoenix]

I highly recommend KOA....

Period wise either would suit you just fine. While Ive read cut and thrust would be a bit more common for the merchant class I know its not uncommon for a successful merchant to have a nice rapier as well.

[groomporter]

I know its not uncommon for a successful merchant to have a nice rapier as well.

I would agree, especially if he's trying "fit in" with his bettors or portray himself as "fashionable."

[Sullivans Bastard]

I know its not uncommon for a successful merchant to have a nice rapier as well.

I would agree, especially if he's trying "fit in" with his bettors or portray himself as "fashionable."

I appreciate the feedback!  My character is not so fashionable.  He's just a luthier and is far from  wealthy.  He's starting to see some success, but his income is still too moderate to afford to "fit in."

[Sir Sebastian Phoenix]

I feel you on that one...My character kind of had his title recently thrust upon him through his military service. He still carries a throw back hand and half sword handed to him from his father. (I'm a big guy at 6'4" 280 and a rapier looks plain dumb in my hand)

He is definitely a man in transition. Being a Baronet of the Black Plains (it farms and lives exactly like it sounds) has made his outfits a mix-match of soldiering/cavalier/low nobility. His lands are more of a curse than a prideful boast.

I definitely feel ya brother...I try to be as true as I can on garb without breaking the bank. Besides no-one likes the Garb Nazi.

[Sullivans Bastard]

I feel you on that one...My character kind of had his title recently thrust upon him through his military service. He still carries a throw back hand and half sword handed to him from his father. (I'm a big guy at 6'4" 280 and a rapier looks plain dumb in my hand)

He is definitely a man in transition. Being a Baronet of the Black Plains (it farms and lives exactly like it sounds) has made his outfits a mix-match of soldiering/cavalier/low nobility. His lands are more of a curse than a prideful boast.

I definitely feel ya brother...I try to be as true as I can on garb without breaking the bank. Besides no-one likes the Garb Nazi.

I have a little thread over in the Create a Character forum describing my preliminary Persona outline, and why my screen name is not just a made-up name!

[Sullivans Bastard]

I ordered the sword and main gauche from Kult of Athena yesterday.  I did make one change and switched to this main gauche:


Thanks again for the help.  Can anyone tell me what size belt frog I need?  Regular or large?

[Lairde Daniel]

should be a small but wait until you actually get the blade to make sure; speaking from frustrating experience

[Sullivans Bastard]

should be a small but wait until you actually get the blade to make sure; speaking from frustrating experience

Thanks.

I received the shipping info notification from UPS.  Now I get to sit around and fidgit in anticipation until Tuesday.

It's my first sword, so I'm a bit excited - even at my age.   Any tips on how to avoid cutting off anything I won't grow back?

[Harbinger]

let me know what you think about the main gauche, I was looking at that one as
well

-h

[Laird Fraser of Lovatt]

Looks like it would match your main blade fine!!  See how it feels in your right hand, laddie and ye'll be knowen fer sure!  I too, have had a problem with frogs... figit a bit and make yer call.

[Sullivans Bastard]

Looks like it would match your main blade fine!!  See how it feels in your right hand, laddie and ye'll be knowen fer sure!  I too, have had a problem with frogs... figet a bit and make yer call.

I've been fidgiting since I hit "send" to place the order...

Little kids waiting or Christmas have nothing on grown men waiting for their first sword. 

I started to order sword & main gauche frogs and a pouch from Medieval Collectibles, but decided to do a search on here first.  After reading some opinions of the company, I decided to pass and am considering  a rapier frog from The Inner Baily.



I'd appreciate any suggestions for other possibilities - company or frog style.

[Sullivans Bastard]

The sword & main gauche arrived today.  

First impressions-

Sword:

Gorgeous piece of steel.
Comfortable in the hand.
Everything feels tight around the handle & hilt.
Reasonably edge sharp from the fuller end to point, but I feel some small rough spots (edge burr not removed?) and I am going to give it a stroke or two with an Arkansas stone.
Scabbard is a tight fit to the blade and has no rattles.

Main gauche:

Comfortable in the hand.
Everything feels tight around the handle & hilt.
The pointy end is VERY pointy, but there is no edge sharpness.  This is standard and I was aware of this feature beforehand.
The scabbard is a loose fit and the dagger rattles around inside the scabbard badly.  Holding the dagger by the grip and shaking a couple of times will walk the scabbard right off the blade.  the dagger falls out of the scabbard if held by the scabbard & tipped "handle down" more than about 30 degrees from horizontal.

[Lady von Groper]

Congrats on a nice pair of swords, sir!  I know I was just as fidgety after I ordered my rapier and associated armor earlier this year.

I would assume that since almost all RenFaires have a weapons policy (must be peace tied at all times), the problem with your main gauche not wanting to stay in the scabbard could be an easy solve.  It may take a bit more to tie it in as an extra measure.  As far as the rattling, how about wrapping a piece of leather around where it rattles (either on the blade or the scabbard)?  Will that tighten it up?

Also, I just use fine grit sandpaper to get rid of burrs on my blade.  Then sword wax to keep it from rusting.

Be sure to post photos when you get your whole outfit completed.  Looking forward to it!

[madmanpsu]

I myself have a sidesword that I carry while portraying myself as "on duty" for soldiering (ussually I wear this only with my brigandine armor).  But I also have several rapiers that I carry while I am in Gentleman mode.  I find that it is best to wear any sword on a baldric, as opposed to on the belt.  The weight of the blade on the belt tends to be a real pain and if the belt isn't tight, it tends to pull the belt down on that side so you end up with this sort of "gunslinger" belt look.  Not comfortable at all.  All in all, either sword fits your personae and now that you have one, it will likely not be long before the other follows.  That tends to be the way with these sorts of things. 

Matt aka Mail'n M'Crack