Haggling at the Faire

[Hercules]

Probably not a popular subject. But with the economic times I thought I'd ask. Since most vendors seem to be independents. Would haggling for a sale be frowned upon or welcomed in order to do business?

In other words. Would a vendor prefer a customer to just walk away or make a counter offer?  

[KiltedPrivateer]

You'll have a tough time trying to get wares for less than the asking price.  I do know that there are some vendors who go in on a trade with other vendors, but I don't know of many who barter with the patrons.  Not that I know every vendor either.

[Zaubon]

I think we may have a misunderstanding. Bartering is exchanging goods for other goods. Haggling is negotiating prices. I can't speak for vendors at TRF, but I've found that most business's are open to reasonable haggling in these times. Just remember that the vendors have to eat too and don't insult their work.

[Hercules]

You are correct Zaubon. I mean haggling.

I realize some items at Ren. Faires are high and I'm usually liberal with my purchases. However, at Scarborough, I ran across an item I wanted that was waaay over-priced. I was drooling over the item, the Faire was close to closing. We kinda had a staring contest as if to see if one of us would throw out another amount. I didn't want to insult so I just slunk away.

[Breandan]

Simplest answer: Retailers (with the exception of the pirate booth), no. Craftspeople, possibly. Retailers usually have a set markup that they put on their wares and generally won't- or can't- budge from it. The Pirates have their auction, so that's the best place to go for haggling (though you'll be fighting a crowd), and craftspeople generally have some leeway on their goods, depending on how badly they need to sell it. Still, never offer anything less than 85% of the listed price, that would insult them. This isn't a bazaar in Damascus 

[BLAKDUKE]

Rather than haggling and taking a chance on insulting the vendor, I merely ask "is that the best you can do??"  If he lowers the price then I have to decide whether I am willing to pay the new price, if so then I pay it, if not then I merely say thank you and walk away and no one is offended

[Wolfden]

You would also do well to ask if something is a cash price, some vendors will offer a discount for cash especially if it is a higher price item. Some will also offer to "pay" the sales tax for you. I put that in quotes because it is technically illegal in TX for someone to pay sales tax for you as part of a transaction, but they are really offering you a discount and will adjust their sales price when reporting the tax. I have also found that if you are serious about buying but can't decide, some vendors are able to sense that and will offer a lower price.

[LadyElizabeth]

Haggling at TRF is definitely doable, but like people said, really only with artisans.  And I do think they'd rather sell something for a bit lower than not sell it...  The way I usually approach it is saying something like, "Well I'm not sure I can afford that price, can you go a bit lower because I really love this item"...  Don't expect tons lower though cause that's unlikely for the great work they do!!

[Mouse]

In the context of haggling at faire, I was wondering what shoppes were best to go to, not just for haggling. I am looking for quality as well as price, in say, swords, wares (wares meaning a good drum and wineskin me thinks.) But mainly, A sword breaker. I have been looking for one of these puppies for years, and not a Bud K or Museum Replicas piece. By sword breaker, I mean all types, but specifically, a comb, a sword breaking dagger. I would of perused to see if there was a thread of this nature already established, but have you SEEN how many there are?

[groomporter]

Probably not a popular subject. But with the economic times I thought I'd ask. Since most vendors seem to be independents. Would haggling for a sale be frowned upon or welcomed in order to do business?

In other words. Would a vendor prefer a customer to just walk away or make a counter offer?  

With the economy the way it is a lot of artists may have already made price cuts on their stuff. (At the Master Artists' Dinner at MNRF many of the artists said their sales were down as much as 50% in spite of price cuts and very good attendance numbers this year.) So some might be insulted if you ask something like "is that the best you can do?"

[Carl Heinz]

I swapped one of my ermine skull and feather hat devices for a toy grade crossbow this last weekend.

Keep in mind that vendors generally have to pay a percentage to the event as well as collect sales taxes and cover their expenses.  I don't know any wealthy crafts people or vendors.  There's not a lot of slack.

But, to answer your question, most are generally asked the same question many times a day and they'll have no problem telling you whether their prices are negotiable without being offended.

If the price being asked is more than you want to pay or you think the price is more than the item is worth to you, don't buy it.  If you think you're getting good value, want the item, and can afford it, get it.

Sometimes I'll want custom work and we'll negotiate the price in advance.

[Ronald the Bald]

Some vendors will haggle. Especially those craftsmen who actually make the stuff they sell. I worked as a craftsman 1 year at 2 different faires. It was hard to know what price to ask since each item was different, took different amounts of time, and used different materials to make. I would have more leeway on the things I personally made than the ones the store owner made.

The best times to haggle are:
  High dollar items. You won't get anywhere haggling for steak on a stake, but if you offer $2000 for a $2100 item you just might get it.
  Multiple items. Offering $9 for a $10 plate probably won't go anywhere. But offering $180 on a set of 20 $10 plates might be accepted.
  Custom orders. You can usually negotiate the price when you order custom clothing, armour, weapons, etc. Be prepared to hear counter offers, such as a delay in getting the item, paying cash, a change in materials, bigger deposit, etc.
   Paying cash. $1000 cash is worth more to a vendor than a check or credit card purchase. They have fees or the bother of taking it to the bank. Cash is king and does get respect. For some low-end vendors a cash purchase may mean having enough to pay for gas home this weekend.

No vendor should be insulted or have a problem with "Is that your best price?" It is a good question and just part of being in sales. He can always say. "This is the best price." or it might give him the chance to explain why this item is worth what he is charging. It is a good sales opening. Don't be offended.

[CaraGreenleaf]

Speaking from the booth manager's point of view, there are several booths in which we as managers are stuck with the prices. I sell for someone else who is working at another festival simultaneously. Because I am not the owner, I'm not authorised to offer discounts or lower prices. Which does bother me. On my own personal creations, I offer 10% off to R/Fers, M'Cracks, and other Guild members with pins displayed. It bothers me that I cannot offer the same working where I am right now, but at the same time, I know that this is someone else's business and I'm not going to interfere. I have had a couple of patrons attempt to haggle, and other vendors asking after boothy discounts, but I am stuck at the "not allowed" stage. You will run into that alot. But it can never hurt to ask...

[Mouse]

What is an R/F pin? Sure it is an obvious question, but I nary like to make myself look the idiot, though all I ever have to do is present me mug to see.

[CaraGreenleaf]

They're kind of like guild pins for those of us on this forum. I don't have the link handy, but I'm sure someone can find the link to the thread where you can buy one!

[Rani Zemirah]

Here you go, Mouse...

R/F pins...

[Mouse]

YAY for people humouring my ineptitude!

[meauho]

You would also do well to ask if something is a cash price, some vendors will offer a discount for cash especially if it is a higher price item. Some will also offer to "pay" the sales tax for you. I put that in quotes because it is technically illegal in TX for someone to pay sales tax for you as part of a transaction, but they are really offering you a discount and will adjust their sales price when reporting the tax. I have also found that if you are serious about buying but can't decide, some vendors are able to sense that and will offer a lower price.

Depends on how the accounting is done on whether it is legal or not - and that mainly comes down to how much are paid in taxes.
I'm a vendor at conventions (and an accountant) and our prices are always "we pay taxes", or tax included - so we don't have to keep actual change. 


$100 + sales tax (8.25% for TRF) = 108.25

However, if "vendor" pays the tax, it should be
$100 from you = $92.38 sales price on paperwork + 7.62 taxes

*If the math isn't working out for you, it is "cash receipts x 1.0825 = sales price"

It is only illegal if they are reporting that you paid less than $100 ($92.38 + tax), or if you pay $100 plus tax and they report that you paid $100.

[Breandan]

or if we report it at all

*whistles innocently*

[ScoutColt]

I'm not sure how a vendor can be insulted by throwing out too low of a price. Just like back in the days, people didn't haggle because they DIDN'T want the item. By throwing out an obscenely low price your simply asking the vendor to verbally talk his own item up. Your obviously already interested in the item, even more so if your trying to haggle. By forcing the vendor to explain WHY his goods are worth more seems like just what I would want to do... I personally am not to keen on buying an item for any price if the maker isn't able to back up it's craftsmanship, and since I can't borrow it without paying for it I'd like to think any given craftsman would be able to talk their item up immensely (thus talking the price up into the range THEY want to sell it at as opposed to what they have to settle for).

If they can't/don't have the ability to explain why their craft is worth a given amount... do they deserve to get that amount for it? People will say no anyways sometimes, but thats the way of things... if everyone said yes, vendors would be millionaires and out of stock.

I dunno. I get where you folks are coming from and I'm really not trying to start any fights with anyone. I would hate to insult anyone out there, but I don't see how the flattery of someone trying desperately to get my wares would be considered an insult... I'd consider it a challenge of proving my items worth. (and I would imagine they'd make more money with this method since they can start haggling loudly and everyone in the nearby vicinity gets to hear just how amazing this wonderful little craft is).

My point is... the shamwow guy and all those other tv vendors spend their time telling people WHY to buy their product and WHY it's worth it. They are haggling with their viewers who are saying "thats not worth much at all". THey know that they have to SELL their wares, not just display them. I would think Faire vendors know they have to "sell" their wares too and wouldn't get insulted when they are suddenly called on to do so in a challenging manner (ie: offering alot less than what it is marked as)... altho you don't see too many vendors talking their product up. Some sure... but most? Far from it.

I'd say haggle everything. But Id view it as a compliment if people were so desperate for my wares they would stand there and argue with me over price. It means I'm making something people actually want. Why take someone giving you a chance to make money as an insult when you aren't gonna be insulted by the thousands of people who walk by without looking ya?

[Breandan]

speaking for myself, I don't get offended by lowball haggling, I get offended when someone looks at a piece I spent three hours in a hot forge busting my keester on and looks down their nose and says "That isn't worth $45" (this is the piece being referred to). At that point, I get downright ticked off. See, unlike retailers, craftsmen and women pour a lot of themselves into their work, and it is not a questioning of the value of the object, but a dismissing of the hard work we put into it that is insulting. Haggling is a different critter- I set a price higher than I reasonably expect to get, and countering it the buyer gives me an unreasonably low price, with both of us knowing we will meet in a happy range somewhere in the middle. This means I KNOW the buyer thinks it's worth more than he/she is offering initially, and its just part of the process.

[Prof. John Bull]

I personally would not try to haggle at fest unless I believed the item were unfairly or mistakenly priced or there were other unusual circumstances.  I don't believe that craftspeople set prices with the expectation that they will be negotiated down.

[ScoutColt]

speaking for myself, I don't get offended by lowball haggling, I get offended when someone looks at a piece I spent three hours in a hot forge busting my keester on and looks down their nose and says "That isn't worth $45" (this is the piece being referred to). At that point, I get downright ticked off. See, unlike retailers, craftsmen and women pour a lot of themselves into their work, and it is not a questioning of the value of the object, but a dismissing of the hard work we put into it that is insulting. Haggling is a different critter- I set a price higher than I reasonably expect to get, and countering it the buyer gives me an unreasonably low price, with both of us knowing we will meet in a happy range somewhere in the middle. This means I KNOW the buyer thinks it's worth more than he/she is offering initially, and its just part of the process.

See, thats how I would think folks would respond. I would be highly upset if someone said straight ANY item isn't worth any amount. Thats an insult. (if it's a handmade piece... show weaponry that everyone knows the original wholesale vendors paid pennies on the dollar for and is mass produced deserves a good badmouthing sometimes) It's very different to haggle to that comfortable middle ground. :-)

I'd be sad for vendors if they priced their stuff at what they knew it was worth...  they'd be cutting into their own pocketbook. Too many people out there see a price and pay for it regardless. But at the same time, not haggling would seriously hit their pocketbook too unless they simply sell out constantly (in which case they need to raise the price. You should never run out of product, it means it's worth more than your charging!)

[ArielCallista]

I have discovered quite often I as the buyer don't have to start the haggling. For example, back in Spring I was at Scarby and was in this metalwork/armory type armory shop...totally blanking on the name. It was towards the end of the day and I was running low on money. There was this tiara that I loved to death and wanted super bad. I was with a friend and I pointed it out to him and were were talking over it. The shop owner came over and started talking to me about the tiaras, the metal they were made out of the fact that theyre all handmade, the usual talk up. I pointed out one I liked and asked how much since i couldn't see any price tag or sign. He told me it was $65, but it was a bit over my budget. I knew it was worth that much, as I've done metalwork before. I was short $5. He gave it to me for $60. Not a huge save, but it still counts. I also had a situation before when I was looking at a bodice that was like $180. She started the haggling, Got it down to $150 then my card was denied...ugh. So sometimes starting the haggling is as easy as showing interest in something. In alot of situations it seems that if the owner is on duty the only reason you pay full price is cuz you didnt ask.

[SaucyWench]

As a vendor, I hate the word "haggling".  I also hate the statement, "Is that the best you can do?"  It feels like I've somehow already screwed the customer price-wise even though I spent possibly days or weeks working on a piece and trying to figure out how to price it fairly only to have my quality questioned.  I also work in retail and am constantly asked the same question, "Is that the best YOU can do?"  The wording just rubs me the wrong way.

Be considerate of the folks you are speaking to.  Yes, a craftsperson/artisan is more likely to work with you on the price.  Take into consideration that this is possibly their only form of income.  If you want something they've made desperately, but simply cannot afford it, discuss terms with them instead of asking what they can do for you.  For example, perhaps you can pay it out in a payment plan/layaway.  Or perhaps they can work out a trade or lower the price enough so that it's in your price range, but it's also worth their while.  Maybe get their card so when they have their items on sale for an end-of-season sale online or are desperate to sell the last of that certain line of items, they can contact you.

If it is NOT an item you're desperate to own, then don't debate over the price.  Seriously, then you're just not doing yourself or the artisan any justice.  I would HATE to think of a piece I'd worked hard on just sitting in someones box of camping gear, forgotten until the next time they pull out their tent.  (Unless you USE it for camping, which makes sense for some items, of course.).

So basically, use manners, try to work with the artisan in front of you, appreciate the work they've put into the piece that, likely, you could not have made yourself, and remember that this is how they earn a living, so don't try to lowball them so much that they can't afford their gas home.

Many HUGS to all and I look forward to seeing everyone again at TRF next year!

~Lisa (Ivymoon)

[Carl Heinz]

I don't haggle but I sometimes get "good customer" discounts.  (An advantage of dealing with specific vendors for a number of years.)

I've also been known to hawk.  One new vendor this last year whose wares I particularly liked offered essentially a free upgrade because both of us were pretty sure that I was making customers interested.

Paying by cash or check may also get you a better price than paying by credit card.

I do have to add, though, that some crafts people feel that they're selling museum quality wares and should get that price.  If that's the case, they're not selling their wares in the proper venue.  But I've only seen this a couple of times.  Some crafts people have a range which does include museum quality, but they don't expect make most of their income from them.  A specific example of the latter is a friend who uses material ranging from bone and antler to amber.  She doesn't expect to get the same for her bone and antler pieces that she gets for her amber.

But vendors don't owe you.  If what they have to offer is more than you're willing or able to pay, give it a pass.  It's not the vendor/craft person's fault.