sewing machine question

[Auryn]

Hi
I was hoping you guys could tell me your opinions.

My sewing machine is a small Brother. It basically has 2 stitches that all you do is decide how tall and wide you want the stitch to be. Turns a straight stitch into a zig zag by turning the little knob.
I don't remember the model, my mom bought it about 13 years ago.
Anyway I would like something a little sturdier as my little Brother works well but once in a while goes nuts with the thread tension and I end up spending more time undoing messed up stitches or rethreading the machine, than I actually do sewing.

On craigslist I found a Riccar 1570 for $150.
Does anyone know anything about the brand or the machine?? I can't seem to find much information online.

edited to add:
i've also found a couple of Juki industrial machines for around $300 but I can't find any details on the models.
DDL8300N
DDL 227
MO 2412 Class DF 6500

[Pascal]

Riccar is an "okay" brand -- but that's way (as in WAY) too much for it.  You'd be much better off with a good second-hand mechanical Kenmore.  If you can live with straight stitch only, your best best would be an old black Singer (the reason they're old is because they last forever!).  You could pick up a Singer 201 or 15 for less than your $150 and your grandchildren would be sewing on it one day.

Folks will chime in with their recommendations -- top end will likely be Bernina, Viking, and Pfaff.  They're good, but expensive.  Good middle-of-the-roads are Janome, Babylock, and higher-end Brothers.  There really aren't any good low-end machines -- but there are plenty of good inexpensive used machines.  Don't buy a new Singer.  Repeat, don't buy a new Singer.  Singer once made some of the best sewing machines in the world (there are millions of them still sewing decades later).  That was a long time ago.

If your budget is in the $150 range, don't buy anything you see in Walmart.  In fact, be very wary of buying anything new unless you're spending a lot of money.  Used machines will serve you best in the $150 and under price range.

If anyone is pitching you an "Industrial" machine, they're probably lying.  A true "Industrial" label doesn't mean a tough machine -- it means a tough motor!  If the motor is the size of a softball, it's a home machine.  If the motor is the size of a soccer ball, it's an industrial machine.  Furthermore, industrial motors are pretty much always separate and detached (and thus easily replaceable when they burn out).

BTW, Juki is a good machine -- but you can probably do much better pricewise for home machines.

A couple of sites where you'll find information on specific sewing machine models:

http://www.patternreview.com
http://www.using-sewing-machines.com

[Auryn]

Pascal,
thanks so much, thats the kind of information I was looking for.
I don't want anything new exactly for the reasons you stated.

I rather buy something good used and I have no problem with old.

I would be very happy with something that just does reliable straight stitches. Thats 90% of what I do so far.

As far as the industrial, I need that for my "real" job, we need something for thick heavy material- its vulcanized rubber fabric (hypalon neoprene, we build inflatable boats), and my father is a fan of Juki. The ones I found are actually industrial with the table and all, from all the sewing places going out of business in miami.

As far as the old Singers, how can I tell what model it is?? some of the listings have the serial # on them. Are the 201 and 15 electric or foot powered??

[Cilean]

Yep I have owned a Pfaff, Bernina and now I have Husqvarna Designer SE and I have my work horse Kenmore, that was $$$ as well.  Personally?? You get what you pay for! You buy the best and you get that.  Now and again you will have a lemon (believe me I had one) but you also have support, classes and if you have an issue someone you know really KNOWS that machine to fix it.  This can be just as much a value I can attest!  Some places will take layaway so that you can get more bang for your buck but not break your bank.

Okay so I saw on HSN, I know but!

Here you can pay via your debit card $79.00 or so for 4 months, this is a work horse a friend bought and I can tell you it made her 20X18 pavilion.  And she did dags and such like that with this machine!!! On top of that you will get a load of extra feet for free.

Here is the link:
http://crafts-sewing.hsn.com/singer-heavy-duty-professional-sewing-machine_p-2165685_xp.aspx?webm_id=0&web_id=2165685&sf=ct&dept=ct0052&cat=ct0053&ocm=ct|ct0052|ct0053&prev=hp!sf!cat&ccm=ct|ct0052|ct0053

My opinion is:

#1.Only you will know when a machine should be yours.  It is like anything a car, or a pair of heels or that fabric that is bitable.  You will sit in front of it and it will speak with you, and you will see your relationshiop with it.  So I say go out and play with every machine you can!   I owned the Bernina, because others gave me the advice, but it never was 'mine' but I sat in front of my Pfaff and it was 'mine'  in 4 seconds.  You need to play with them and work with them HSN gives you 30 days to play.

#2. Don't think of your skill level today as a machine is an investment, look at what you will be doing in 4 to 10 years.  I am not saying sell a kidney but try and get the most machine for your buck.  Do go to shops now people have been trading in machines,  you can get one for 75% off of retail.  Speak with your family and ask for Yule/Birthday/Anything Gift Certificates towards the purchase of a machine.

I said this to a young person and she asked for Christmas if people would be able to give her a $25.00 to $50.00 Gift Certificate to Blah machine store.  At Christmas she was ecstatic to have received 8 $50.00 Gift Certificates and was able to purchase a good machine from a good dealer that was refurbished.

#3.  So don't buy crap because you don't have the cash and you think, oh it is just a sewing machine, Don't spend any money because you don't know if it will work, and if it can then be fixed.  Mind you my 1st machine was 2nd hand and worked for years, but I have also had people in tears when they needed to borrow my machine because the one they found stopped working or was too expensive to fix.

Cilean

[guinea]

I'm sure many people won't agree with me on this one, but I have a Singer Advance from Walmart that I got for $200ish and I LOVE it.  If you don't have the budget for the really "good" machines ($500 and up) it does a beautiful job.  And once you go to the electronically controlled machines you'll never want to go back, believe me. I had a Singer Simple before this Advance and the difference with the electronic control of the stitching has been incredible.  Much smoother. I've had no major issues with it but I've only had it about 1.5 years. Just my 2 cents.

[Auryn]

I love you guys 

What do you think of a Singer  Model 15-90 in working condition with all its accessories, multiple feet and attachments for $40???

I would be very happy for it to do good straight stitches. Any ideas on if it can sew suede and buck skin leather??

[Kate XXXXXX]

For goodness sake!  Why haven't you already got it?  A 15-90!  Treasure!  ESPECIALLY at that price and with all the gizmos!

[Pascal]

I love you guys  

What do you think of a Singer  Model 15-90 in working condition with all its accessories, multiple feet and attachments for $40???

I would be very happy for it to do good straight stitches. Any ideas on if it can sew suede and buck skin leather??

Aieeee!!!! Quick, buy it as quick as you can!  Wonderful machine!  Lasts forever!  Powerful -- some like it better than the 201.

Both the 15's and the 201's came in various models -- some treadle powered (foot pedal, no motor), some external motor (external motor and belt), some "potted" motor (Motor attached directly to back of machine in a black metal "pot" -- attaches directly to gears, no belt).  I believe the 15-90 is an external motor, belt drive.

Here's a review of the 15-91 (potted version) -- http://blog.sew-classic.com/2008/10/05/singer-1591-sewing-machine-review.aspx

Here's a comparison of the 15 and the 201 -- http://blog.sew-classic.com/2009/01/17/comparing-the-singer-1591-and-the-2012-sewing-machines.aspx

The 201 and the 15 were produced during the same period.  The 201 was the "top of the line"; the 15 was just a hair under that -- but I think that was mainly marketing, not reality.  They're both incredible, powerful, sturdy machines.  The bobbin on the 15 can actually hold a little more thread than the 201, so some prefer it for that reason.

I'm pretty sure you need a cabinet or case for the 15 -- if you put the machine straight on a table top, cams and stuff are going to hit the table.  Not a big problem -- you can either mount it in a sewing table (you can find used ones made out of real wood at thrift shops for next to nothing) or you can mount it in a $20 (on sale, $30 not) PVC case from Hancock's or JoAnn's.  Jenny at the Sew-Classic blog also sells those neat hardwood bases for 15's at very reasonable prices.  The 201 will work directly on a table top.

BTW, it will sew darn near anything you can fit under the presser foot.  Leather is no problem -- just be sure and use a leather needle (note:  you probably can't sew hard saddle leather -- but wearable leather will be no issue.)

One great thing about the old black Singer's is that many of the old, wonderful Sewing books (that you can pick up for nothing in a used bookshop) usually use those in their illustrations.

[Pascal]

As far as the old Singers, how can I tell what model it is?? some of the listings have the serial # on them. Are the 201 and 15 electric or foot powered??

You can always look up the serial number to get the model and year.  The serial number is on the base of the machine (not on the motor) and begins with either one or two letters.  You can find Singer's Serial number reference charts at http://www.singerco.com/support/serial_1letter.html]http://www.singerco.com/support/serial_2letter.html[/url (for two letters) or [url]http://www.singerco.com/support/serial_1letter.html (one letter).  You're probably going to find 2 letter serials -- the single letter serials were mainly used on really old machines.

BTW, if you look at the page, you'll find additional PDF's you can download for specific letter prefixes.  Those will let you match the number pretty much exactly to find the model number and the date produced.

The 15's and 201's were both produced from the 1930's to the early 1950's.

[Auryn]

I reiterate, I love you guys.
The specific machine I am looking at comes in a cabinet and its a 15-90. From the serial number it was built in the Quebec plant (its a JC prefix).

The cabinet isn't original but I don't really care.

I found another- I believe its a 15-91 that comes on a small stand w. a cover and its portable(aside from the weight), the person just wants to get rid of it so I think I will be able to get it for a steal. I figure at the very least it will be good for parts.

I will let you know how it goes.
I'm really excited about it as I have a few pair of leather gloves on the list of projects to get done

[Kate XXXXXX]

With care, both will outlive your grandchildren.

If it has  an external motor that isn't much use or has died, there are replacements about, ot I know a few folk that have converted them to treadle or hand cranks...

[Auryn]

well I took the machine home friday night.
The little dresser its built into is in horrible shape and a horrible poopy brown color, but that is all remedied.
The guy who sold it to me didn't know how to fix the tension on the machine, so he said, look at getting it fixed, if its too expensive dont even worry about paying me.

There are two huge boxes full of feet that I'm going ot have to figure out what is what, I dont know how I'm gonna do that.
It does still have the manual.


I will post pictures when I get home.

On another note, anyone know anything about Necchi machines? particularly the 575FA model?? I can't find anything online.

[Pascal]

What's wrong with the tension?  Is it missing pieces/parts -- or does it just need to be adjusted?  Either case, it's a pretty simple mechanism and parts are plentiful.

Any older Singer sewing manual (a good one is "Singer Sewing Book by Mary Brooks Picken") will show you how to use (and identify) all the different sewing feet.  As long as the book was produced before 1960 or so, you should be okay.  I've seen the Mary Brooks Picken book go for $40 -- but you can usually find it for a couple of bucks.

Necchi is an Italian brand -- their US distributor is Allynt (http://www.allynt.com).  Old models were heavy-duty workhorses -- even kind of sexy-styled in that Italian styling way.  New ones look like Asian imports -- don't know for sure, but would suspect that's the case.  The 575 would be a newer one.  You can see some pictures of older Necchi's at http://www.geocities.com/lamx/.  The BU, Nora, Mira era remind me a lot of Pfaff 130's. 

[Kate XXXXXX]

Parts for or whole tension units for the 15 type machines are available.  If, like mine, the mechasnism is just clogged with fossilized grunge and a tad rusty, you can take it off, dismember it, clean all the bits and reassemble it.  It's time-consuming and fiddly, but not difficult, and the older Singer manuals show you the order the bits go in.  I can buzz you a copy of the diagram if you don't have it in your book, or you can download a whole free manual from Singer if it is missing.

[Auryn]

thanks guys
The machine has been sitting in the middle of the living room (the exact spot where we unloaded it from the car) since I brought it home.
I've been losing my mind from how busy the last two weeks have been.
I am hoping that I will actually have some free time this weekend. I need to reorganize my sewing room (looks like a bomb went off and then a tornado came through) so I can move the machine in there and actually sit down at take a look at it.

I will post any findings

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

My apprentice, Elizabeth, started her sewing on a Baby Lock Denim Pro. It was a first step to learning more how to sew. She has since moved up to a Baby Lock Crafter's Choice. Her confidence increased 200% after she started playing with it and took several classes on how to use the features needed for Alterations and Period Clothing she does with me. The quality of her sewing has vastly improved.

Go with a machine that will suit the needs that you have, for the level of sewing that you do, and where your confidence is at. Buy a machine where machines are sold so that you get lessons on how to use it to get the most out of it. When it comes to having good equipment, costs does come into play.

Cheaper is not always better. I spent well over $1,000 for a machine on sale that is my workhorse because I need it for the type of work that I do. I have yet to rue that decision.

Good luck.

[LordPaulet]

In reply to Cileans post:
That looks like a Singer CG-550 (can't be for sure though couldnt find a model number) if you were to go with any of the CG models I would go with the CG-590.  the cost on this model (in most places I can find) is $250 (this is withough all the extra feet) and comes with more stitches.  I do not know the exact specs on the 550 but I did have a 590 and LOVED it!! This machine has metal fit gears on the inside...most machines today have plastic or nylon gears.  When sewing heavy fabric the nylon gears jump and now your machine is out of timing.  I can report first hand the 590 will sew through a belts width of leather with NO problems.  I was also able to roll denim and velvet into 12 layers thick and it went through it like a hot knife through butter.  This machine also handles stretch and light fabrics very well instead of chewing them to crap.  I highly recommend this machine to the ren sewer sewing all of that velvet and upholstry weight fabrics.

[Auryn]

Ok I know I am resurrecting an old thread but I figured I would update a bit.

I still havent taken the machine to get checked out- its been crazy, I can't believe its december already.
Anyhoo.
As far as attachments that came with the machine
( I found a great book at the local library that identifies and explains attachments in older machines- great book).
I have a zig zag attachment, I have a blind stitch attachment and the best part is I have a button hole attachment with 6 or 7 different button hole size templates.
I have about a dozen other foot attachments that I haven't been able to identify yet although I am pretty sure that one is a ruffle/pleat foot.

I somehow managed to lose the manual for the darn thing about a week after I got it in the house. I have a bad feeling I might have accidentally tossed it because I cant find it anywhere and I don't have any furry babies that might have moved it.

[Pascal]

You can download a free PDF copy of the 15-91 manual -- they're all over the place, but Singer has them at /http://www.parts.singerco.com/IPinstManuals/

[Auryn]

So I don't know if anyone cares but I figured this would be better than starting a new thread since I'm talking about the same machine.

I found a manual for the button holer attachment and I plan on trying my hand at it tonight.
Last night I tried sewing two pieces of medium weight leather and the machine handled it beautifully. The tensions are a bit loose but I figure I can fix that.
Quick question for anyone who might know.
Is the manual for the 15-90 the same (aside for the motor belt stuff) as the one for the 15-91??
I ask because thanks to Pascal I have the manual for the 15-91 but can't seem to find the 15-90 manual anywhere without paying for it.

Oh and I am hoping to find a service manual- I was quoted $70 just to look at the machine.

[Pascal]

You're correct -- the 15-90 and the 15-91 are the same machine ... with the exception of the motor arrangement.  It's direct mounted and geared on the 15-91 and belt driven external on the 15-90.  Some folks feel the 15-90 is a little more powerful because of this (the motors are the same, BTW).  Everything in the manual for the 15-91 applies to the 15-90 except for any motor drive stuff.

I know I've seen service manuals for free download -- let me dig around and see if I can find them.  Ahh -- how about http://www.parts.singerco.com/IPinstManuals/15-91.pdf ?  It's for the 15-91, but it's really virtually the same machine as the 15-90.

I've got a page set up regarding the Singer buttonholer at http://www.using-sewing-machines.com/Singerbuttonholer.html -- it's on a 201-2, not a 15-90, but they were very similar contemporary machines and the operation should be the same.  Singer had a couple of variations of buttonholers -- but the only real difference is that one is for upright needle machines and the other is for slant-needle machines.  Your 15-90 is an upright needle (same as the 201).

A good information source (in addition to the wefixit group at Yahoo groups) is Jenny's blog at http://blog.sew-classic.com/ .

[Auryn]

Ahhhh Pascal,
what would I do without your infinite wealth of knowledge on this machine.
I have about 60 pages of material to go through now.
Hopefully by the end of the week I will have an awesome leather piece to show
thanks so much

[Kate XXXXXX]

Hehehehehe...  I've just been playing with buttonholers on my 99K.  I have 3.  They fit all the low shank machines except the slant needle ones.  None of my buttonholers looks quite like Pascal's, but one takes the same sort of cams.

Pascal, the trick to making decent buttonholes with these things is twofold:

First, use a standard weight cotton thread (Gutterman type rather than YLI's finer stuff, or Aurifil).  Don't use poly - it stretches too much and the buttonholes go all tight and puckered.  Remember to slacken off the tension a tad as well.

Second, don't set the stitch length too dense if you have the adjustable sort rather than the cam sort.  With both, go round twice!

They make better buttonholes on medium to heavy close woven fabrics than on light weight or loose weave fabrics.  I posted pix of my three here, along with some other junk: http://community.livejournal.com/vintagemachines/25020.html

[Auryn]

Pascal,
that manual you graciously linked me to is a adjustment manual, do you know if there's an owner's manual anywhere?? I need something for basic things like adjusting the tension on the bobbin.

Kate- love the page. I have that button holer in the green case like at the top of your page. Still haven't had a go with it.


The machine is sewing leather beautifully- just got to make a little lower tension adjustment.
I have decided I'm going to leave the machine set up for leather that way I can always go right to it. well leather and button holes if the buttonholer works well 

[Pascal]

You can find a scan of the owner's manual at http://www.sew-classic.com/uploads/15-91.pdf.  Actually, that entire page at http://blog.sew-classic.com/2008/10/05/singer-1591-sewing-machine-review.aspx is a good source of information for the 15-91 (which is almost the same as the 15-90)