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nottingham players

Started by wat32, October 26, 2009, 09:46:51 AM

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RatherUnwieldly

The tickling is the entire point of it! =]

shirefriar

Quote from: wat32 on November 03, 2009, 06:24:46 PM
omg!! you can't move your feet at all? doesn't that tickle???
I'm staying away!!! do people go crazy or what?

::)  Thats why they call it public punishment. Same holds true for the water dousing, fire, and everything else done to criminals.

will paisley

Quote from: shirefriar on November 02, 2009, 10:30:30 PM
It probably wouldn't be wise to shout "hey you" to any character as they cannot simply break character and walk over to start chatting to you about your postings or whatever. They're actors and paid to do their show in character at all times. I know that troupe does not break character like so many lesser actors do at fairs today. Everything Nottingham does is quite professional and realistic.

I suspect this is coming out a bit more harshly than you intend.  Acts break character all the time, though obviously not when performing (except deliberately for comic effect).  I've talked to Don Juan's other half Miguel out in the lanes at CRF while he was out advertising for his stage show, and we discussed their recent appearance at MDRF and contrasted the differences between the pub sings at MDRF and Sterling.  Obviously I didn't interrupt any of his bits and I didn't do it in front of an audience, but we did talk and he dropped his accent completely.  There are also acts whom I'm good friends with, such as the Pyrates Royale and the Nickel Shakespeare Girls, who will talk to me out of character when there's no audience around.  In fact, I'd even venture to say that it's the "lesser" acts who would be more likely not to break character, as it takes a certain amount of skill to shift from one mode to the other without screwing up.  For that matter, there are certainly times when one should break character.  I remember one of the few times that a patron at VARF wanted to discuss history with me, and I made it impossible for him to do so because I had had it drilled into me never to break character, and thus I refused to discuss anything that was in the "future" (later than the 1580s) except in a speculative sense.  That probably would've made my director of several years ago very happy, but it visibly disappointed the patron.  I certainly plan to introduce myself to RatherUnwieldly at CRF (and I will probably use that nick as a way of cluing her in on where I know her from), and I hope to at least mention the forum and some of the posts, even if it is in a roundabout fashion (such as describing our writings on the World Wide Web of Knowledge or some such).
Minstrel, Interrupted, Bard #400 (CD)
Faire Name: "Flo's Husband"
Yeoman-Purser of the Frigate Up Royally

wat32

How on earth do the actors keep/stay in character when they're stuck
in the stocks? If they're being tickle tortured isn't it impossible to stay
in character? Not ticklish maybe? I know I would be a blubbering mess and laughing nonstop if someone was tickling my feet and I couldn't move.

shirefriar

Yes you're right Will, it did look harsh or mean to see it in writing, but not how it's meant at all. Ratherunwieldly could say better as she's part of the troupe, but I've never seen the Nottingham Players ever drop character during a show or a fair. It doesn't seem to be their policy and their actors are talented and polished enough to stay true to their commedia dell arte styled characters.

And yes, I also agree so many do drop out of character. But that's not an indication of how good they are, it's the opposite in my opinion. Of course different people go to fairs for different reasons. So we might just have to agree to disagree.

I was speaking to a ren enthusiast today and dropping out of character seems to be the downfall of many faires today even among what are deemed pros such as Don and Miguel. Yes of course we all know we're in the 21st century- but a renfaire isn't different from a broadway show or a movie where for a few short hours you get to suspend disbelief. How disuptive it would be if your movie hero kept dropping his accent and talking to the screen out of character. Or if someone sat next to you telling you "that isn't real, you know".

I'm told the first thing they teach at fairs is not to drop character. Ratherunwieldly perhaps could tell you better than I. IMO people come to fairs to be taken back in time in some believable fashion. Most stage shows ruin that, lacking accents, they have micophones. Coming from a theatrical family and having been to faires such as the old NYRF that do (or did) take the acting seriously, and honestly did try to bring visitors back in time a bit, it's far more telling how professional and accomplished actors are if they can remain in character and do not drop out of it. Dropping character destroys the mood others try hard to create and maintain. Just one man's opinion.

Again, I didn't mean to sound harsh in anyway nor be argumentative :(

shirefriar

Quote from: wat32 on November 04, 2009, 12:14:27 PM
How on earth do the actors keep/stay in character when they're stuck
in the stocks? If they're being tickle tortured isn't it impossible to stay
in character? Not ticklish maybe? I know I would be a blubbering mess and laughing nonstop if someone was tickling my feet and I couldn't move.

Wat- I'd say probably the best thing to do is to simply go to the fair and see the shows. It's worth the price of admission. It sure looks real to me. They stay in character, I don't know how, but they do.

RatherUnwieldly

Quote from: wat32 on November 04, 2009, 12:14:27 PM
How on earth do the actors keep/stay in character when they're stuck
in the stocks? If they're being tickle tortured isn't it impossible to stay
in character? Not ticklish maybe? I know I would be a blubbering mess and laughing nonstop if someone was tickling my feet and I couldn't move.

This can be problematic, but what we keep in mind during our individual turns in the stocks is how our character responds to the situation at hand. For example, during my first show, my character, Sylvie, was accused of writing profanities in the Queen's prayer book or some such.. (we always end up improving exactly -why- we're there in the midst of the show, except in cases such as the infamous Queen's wooden leg bits...) Now you see, Sylvie is a very sheltered, naive, unworldly, nose-stuck-in-a-book type, very unused to getting into trouble of any sort (a contrast to the other characters who are all written to be a bit more hardened, or used to this sort of thing happening to them) so when she was sentenced to her tortures (tickling, roasting with torches, star kicking (matches between toes) ) she was genuinely terrified and didn't pretend not to be, unlike some of the other characters who react with anger, defiance, etc.

Your character defines how you react to the tortures, but it also relies heavily on your own fears and what not.. If all this makes any sense  :)

will paisley

Quote from: shirefriar on November 04, 2009, 06:15:17 PM
And yes, I also agree so many do drop out of character. But that's not an indication of how good they are, it's the opposite in my opinion. Of course different people go to fairs for different reasons. So we might just have to agree to disagree.

I was speaking to a ren enthusiast today and dropping out of character seems to be the downfall of many faires today even among what are deemed pros such as Don and Miguel. Yes of course we all know we're in the 21st century- but a renfaire isn't different from a broadway show or a movie where for a few short hours you get to suspend disbelief. How disruptive it would be if your movie hero kept dropping his accent and talking to the screen out of character. Or if someone sat next to you telling you "that isn't real, you know".

I'm told the first thing they teach at fairs is not to drop character. Ratherunwieldly perhaps could tell you better than I. IMO people come to fairs to be taken back in time in some believable fashion. Most stage shows ruin that, lacking accents, they have microphones. Coming from a theatrical family and having been to faires such as the old NYRF that do (or did) take the acting seriously, and honestly did try to bring visitors back in time a bit, it's far more telling how professional and accomplished actors are if they can remain in character and do not drop out of it. Dropping character destroys the mood others try hard to create and maintain. Just one man's opinion.r

It all depends on what you believe the objective of faire (and of a particular act) is.  What you seem to prefer sounds far more like historical reenactment than any faire I've ever attended (Not That There's Anything Wrong With historical reenacting).

You believe that people come to fairs to be taken back in time in some believable fashion.  While that may be why somebody comes to faire in the first place, I don't believe that's why the majority of people come back to faire.  I'm firmly of the opinion that they come back to faire (and develop whatever level of enthusiasm for faire they do) because faire is entertaining; entertaining in a way that's more interactive than watching a movie.  Much of that entertainment comes from deliberate anachronisms, and they're practically embedded in faire's DNA.  The Lost Boys sing Desdemona to the tune of the Knack's "My Sharona", Ded Bob does an impression of George Dubya Bush, and the mud show makes a joke about a modern brand of condoms.  These are also the jokes that connect with the audience and make them go wild.  Even the vendors take part - how often do you see a shop sporting signs that they accept "Milady Visa", "Master of the Card" and "New World Express"?  I feel it's a big mistake to judge faires by their efforts to recreate 16th century England.  Whenever somebody uses this criteria, faire usually falls flat (understandably, since that's not its primary objective).  Penn and Teller used this premise as the basis of its hatchet job on faires in general and CRF in particular, painting all its regulars as a bunch of history-ignorant neo-hippies who think the Renaissance was nothing but a giant beer party out in the woods.  Less well known is an article from a free weekly paper from the Washington Post, wherein a reporter set out to judge the local faire by how historically accurate it was, and thought it was total nonsense, based on the fact that the food vendors sold deep-fried Oreos.  This is like evaluating Ben and Jerry's ice cream based on how well it performs as a detergent.  Fun, laughter and entertainment are the primary goals of faire, and behavior that detracts from an accurate portrayal of the 16th century is an indication of where the faire's priorities lie, not of how professional and accomplished their actors are.

While there are obviously some newbies and some less-skilled actors who have trouble maintaining character and accents, none of the deemed pros are doing so because they're not good or they don't take their acting seriously.  By describing them in this manner, you're measuring them by a totally irrelevant yardstick.  These people put quite a lot of work into making their act into what they want it to be, what's entertaining, and most important to someone who does this for a living, what sells.  If they don't succeed in recreating the past for you, it's because that's not their objective.  Moreover, any character or accent dropping during a stage show is deliberate.  Many of these acts are scripted; tightly scripted.  Hey Nunnie Nunnie's act is timed as precisely as an Olympic bobsled run.  There's nothing in their act that's not rehearsed and polished. While this may mean they're less spontaneous than other acts, and that their show might not bear repeated viewing, it also means that nothing they do is an accident, or caused by a lapse in professionalism.  If these people drop accent or character, it's because they made a conscious decision to do so. While you may not like or agree with this decision, it does not in any way make them less accomplished.
Minstrel, Interrupted, Bard #400 (CD)
Faire Name: "Flo's Husband"
Yeoman-Purser of the Frigate Up Royally

shirefriar

Your points all read and respected, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've seen plenty of acts that stay totally in character, no anachronisms, are highly successful, and more entertaining than the ones you've listed. You say they do it because it 'sells'- others could easily call that cheap and merely selling out:-\

So as you said early on, it really depends on what individuals seek from a fair and it's acts. There's something for everyone- as it should be.

will paisley

Quote from: shirefriar on November 05, 2009, 08:57:46 PM
Your points all read and respected, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've seen plenty of acts that stay totally in character, no anachronisms, are highly successful, and more entertaining than the ones you've listed. You say they do it because it 'sells'- others could easily call that cheap and merely selling out:-\

That at least indicates a choice by the performer.  Though I disagree with the conclusion, it's considerably less objectionable than implying that performers aren't talented, professional or accomplished because they're not conforming to your individual notion of what faire should be like. 

Given your preferences, I'm surprised you can even bear to attend CRF.  Of all the faires I've attended, they show the least concern about recreating an atmosphere where one feels they've been "taken back in time".  No plot, no historical figures that I know of, and I've never seen any kind of living history presentation there. They even have vendors that sell mass produced merchandise  such as t-shirts, bumper stickers and baseball caps. It's a fun faire, and it's probably my favorite after my home faire, but they're not trying very hard to give anybody the impression that they're really back in 16th century England. 

Not to escalate the discussion into an argument, but would you mind listing some of these acts that are totally in character, anachronism-free, highly successful, more entertaining acts?  I'm not looking to debate whether they are everything you say; I'm just curious who you're talking about.
Minstrel, Interrupted, Bard #400 (CD)
Faire Name: "Flo's Husband"
Yeoman-Purser of the Frigate Up Royally

shirefriar

Will did you ever get my email on your last post and the list? I included some video links too of all the acts, Nottingham and the others I've listed. See what you think. Anyway I hope the CRF continues to bring in great talent like Nottingham and go in that direction. Acts like make the fair special. CRF can use the new energy and ideas, it'd be a good shot in the arm for that fair. Huzzah for them!

will paisley

Quote from: shirefriar on March 17, 2010, 01:15:30 AM
Will did you ever get my email on your last post and the list? I included some video links too of all the acts, Nottingham and the others I've listed. See what you think. Anyway I hope the CRF continues to bring in great talent like Nottingham and go in that direction. Acts like make the fair special. CRF can use the new energy and ideas, it'd be a good shot in the arm for that fair. Huzzah for them!

Thanks for the reminder, Never got anything, sorry.
Minstrel, Interrupted, Bard #400 (CD)
Faire Name: "Flo's Husband"
Yeoman-Purser of the Frigate Up Royally

Tammy

I'd also like to check out some of the acts you are talking about Shirefriar.

Royal Protector of Raccoons, Mistress of the Poi, Best Friend of Windland/Nim, Guppy, Seamstress for The Feisty Lady.