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Stage and street

Started by Prof. John Bull, November 13, 2009, 01:15:09 PM

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stonebiscuit

Quote from: Katie Bookwench on November 15, 2009, 12:49:23 PM
It's not uncommon for Faire Management to expect the same level of participation in addition to cutting contract amounts, simply because the performer has already done the extra work for no additional compensation the prior year.

It's also not uncommon for faire management to cut contract amounts and contract numbers, and then expect performers to do more than they've ever done to pick up the slack. Faire ownership/management, by and large, is not known for its largesse.  :P

Carl Heinz

I've not found anyone who made a lot of money backing a faire.  I've known a number who have had little or no return on their investments or lost money.   At best, faire is a marginal enterprise.  If we want to play, we live with it.  If not, we move on.
Carl Heinz
Guild of St Cuthbert

aerial angels

#17
Quote from: Prof. John Bull on November 14, 2009, 11:34:57 PM

It is my understanding that, real world, most experienced performers negotiate contracts on the basis of their prior year contribution.  As such, the performer that makes the extra effort to work the lanes between stage appearances would presumably set themselves up for a more lucrative contract the following year (as well as drawing tips or perhaps publicizing an upcoming stage show).  I'm presuming an appropriate and competent level of engagement that speaks to the performer's strengths -- sleight of hand, puppetry, music, fencing, juggling flaming torches -- so as not to duplicate the efforts of the cast.

Nope :)

SOME entertainment directors value it when acts also work the street. Some don't notice, don't expect it, or don't care.
SOME owners take their ED's recommendations into account when hiring and offering pay. Some don't.

Also, it is not only difficult but often undesirable for a performer to participate in the street in the way you describe. An Aerial Angel interacting with a court member to further the daily story = A-OK and a positive contribution. But an Aerial Angel starting a fire-eating bit on the street could take the focus of every audience member within 100 feet, destroying everyone else's ability to interact one-on-one with patrons, and stepping on neighboring scheduled shows. It's darn hard to find an area at a festival to perform anything of size (have you spent a moment thinking about how big a circle one needs to safely fence near patrons, without a stage separating them from the performers?), and it's hard to do anything beyond a simple interaction with 1-10 patrons, using only improv and hand props, unless you're really dead-on with the entire scenario schedule.

QuoteMy experience is that most performers are not mercenaries but rather people who love what they do yet insist on a certain level of compensation to defray the expenses of performing and to rationalize their involvement to their families.  Actors who are in it for the money do TV commercials instead.

Maybe you should think about talking to some professional performers sometime :) I'm going to take a moment and rephrase here:

"Most doctors are not mercenaries but rather people who love what they do yet insist on compensation to rationalize their involvement to their families...Doctors who are in it for the money become brain surgeons instead."

Gosh, that doesn't sound patronizing at all!

Performers do generally love what they do - it's too tough a job to do without genuinely loving it. And, as in ANY job, in order to be good enough at it to make a living, it's generally necessary to do it full time. It's the chicken and egg dilemma - it's much harder to be a good "part-time" doctor, you have to commit your whole professional time to it in order to be good enough to keep making money at it.

There are no actors who are in it solely for the money. And working professional actors in New York and LA generally don't "choose" to do commercials full-time - the work is too chancy for that. Are they grateful to get those gigs when they can? Absolutely. But it's rare to say, "I'm a full-time commercial actor" because that's not usually a choice the actor personally gets to make.

Here are three likely scenarios:
Actor A - Working NYC actor, degree from Harvard/ART. Loves stage work best of all, and is able through his superior talent and excellent work ethic to work with prominent directors in theatres that hire Equity actors. Does commercials when he can, because they subsidize his ability to do stage work. Recently got Jose Cuervo campaign (after many callbacks - he's the guy who pretends to be a senator in the back of a limo) and can now choose to take jobs when he wishes and do stage work regardless of pay. His compensation pays his rent in NYC and allows him to live a comfortable life. His family is darn proud.

Actor B - Working NYC actor, degrees from I can't recall where. Loves stage and screen, does Law and Order, NYPD Blue, and Gossip Girl as well as Off-Broadway and West End work. Recently discovered a talent for narration (he's the voice of The First 48) and makes a lot of his money from audiobooks. His compensation pays his rent, allows some investment, and maintains his family.

Actor C - Renaissance Festival performer (that's me!) who also does busking festivals, corporate events, and private parties. Has been a theatre professor, still works as a guest artist and guest director for colleges and theatres. Sometimes does a straight play if the schedule is right. Likes a mix of performing, playwriting, and teaching. Has written one of the top-ten-most-produced plays in North America, but you've never heard of it because it's for the high school market, whose money is as green as anyone else's. My compensation as a performer/writer/guest artist is higher than it was when I was a full time professor.

So I'll close this long-winded screed with this :)

"Defray expenses" MY EXPLETIVE.


raevyncait

I am not a performer, per say, though as a dedicated playtron, I would say that as part of the "supporting cast" of at least my home faire, I do perform, though not on a stage. I have, however, worked for a stage act. Not all stage acts are local to the festival at which they are performing, and travel on Friday and either Sunday or Monday.  The Rogues have mostly non-local, at least to Scarborough, members.  One flies in on Friday (having taught school all week), usually arriving VERY late, and flies back out on Sunday, arriving home close to midnight if he's lucky, so he can get up and teach on Monday. Two others teach in Houston during the week, and drive up usually Friday & home after faire on Sunday evening. Not all festival acts work ONLY as festival performers, I'm sure that there are others besides The Rogues who work full time, or nearly full time jobs during the week, at least during some of the festivals.
Between shows, generally, The Rogues aren't in the lanes drumming up shows, or busking, and if they aren't contracted for a wedding or some other event in addition to their shows, they have a few favorite places that they can just have some downtime, yet visit with patrons, other performers, or friends. They are usually not in the keep, but in public areas where they can interact with anyone who wants to interact with them.

Raevyn
IWG 3450
The ORIGINAL Pipe Wench
Wench @ Large #2
Resident Scottish Gypsy
Royal Aromatherapist

Prof. John Bull

Quote from: aerial angels on November 16, 2009, 08:04:28 PM
....

"Defray expenses" MY EXPLETIVE.


Well, no offense intended.  Please note that this being the R/F board I was speaking in the context of faire performers.  In other contexts, yes, I do know any number of actors and musicians who are able to build successful and lucrative careers, often through a combination of teaching and performance.

And true enough, there are a handful of fully professional performers making real money at the larger festivals.  But it's rare.  At the other extreme there are people with volunteer contracts that include no hat pass privileges who are just there because they want to be.  The large middle is made up of people who either a) have few expenses or b) have day jobs that pay the mortgage.


Terry Griffith

Here I go limb walking again.  It's dangerous but the perspective is very different out here on this limb.  Let's see if I can word my thoughts so as not to offend anyone.

Is it possible that the generally offered low pay, in comparison to the mundane world, and the many acts that are willing to work for that amount may be lowering the curve of quality acts at faires?

I know there are quality acts working faires and those are the people who will be offended by that question.  Those are probably the people that will answer this but those are the people that will probably agree with the generalized theory.  Think about the acts that you have seen at renaissance and medieval faires that you thought had no business being on a stage anywhere.  You know there are some.  Those same acts wouldn't get a gig at a pub, bar, night club, TV or other types of festivals and yet there they are taking up a stage and patrons seem to be satisfied with their performance. 

I can make as much playing 4 hours in a pub as I do working all day at a faire.  The hat and CD sales make the real difference but the garb and traveling expenses usually eat that up.

I guess my point is, if faires could afford to pay for top quality talent it probably wouldn't draw any bigger gate and, in line with the other Economic thread on this same section of the forum, it wouldn't be good business.  Therefore, the top quality acts don't have a place in that genre but are working elsewhere.  The exceptions are those that are quality but can supplement their income with other means like a weekday job or outside gigs or they have such a reputation that they can demand more money and work faires all year in all parts of the country.  Such acts are rare as has been said.
"There's a unicorn that's hangin' in what's known as father's room......"

temper

It is my observation that most stage performers don't try to engage with patrons outside the context of their formal performances.

a) Is my observation accurate? Depends...seriously. Some faires we work want us out there and for the more gregarious-this is a faster way to pass the day. Some want us to melt away and disappear because we take attention from the cast (seriously, if us joking around in the food line is 'competition for the cast,' one might care to reconsider the cast) and at other faires we just wing it if we're bored and it is small.

b) Is this deliberate on the part of faire EDs or just a consequence of non-overlapping skills and interests on the part of the performers?
Some faires are in more sue-worthy territory. We had to clamp down HARD when a patron dressed *similarly* to our group was pointing a flintlock at merchants, yes, we had to do a LINE UP to prove it wasn't us. Hard lesson, we travel with badges and identifiers now. As pointed out earlier milk/cow analogy as well. And one faire we work has 5 different groups that all do a little fire or swordwork, it's mostly to avoid dancing on the toes of others and setting up 'teh drama' for the ED. (PSA: Ask me about the stupidity of sword user bravado)

c) Any good examples of stage acts that don't fit this pattern?
Fire acts, specialty animal or weapons acts, geek acts are a bad idea in the lanes-too much chaos so they wouldn't interact.  I could see singers or magicians sneaking out a taste/hook. We've been known to be the outside gate with a banner doing a few things but we never "work" the lanes.  We have been known to play cards (historically accurate) or just do what we do to one another with a BFA or be the straight men/women for another act. We'll interact between sets but it's all personal interplay because we don't carry our equipment around-and we will back off if the cast is in our vicinity.  Some faires want us to come in and act seamlessly with cast but they are the exception, not the rule.
Temper; what makes a good sword, be sure to keep it.

aerial angels

Quote from: Prof. John Bull on November 17, 2009, 01:03:38 AM
Quote from: aerial angels on November 16, 2009, 08:04:28 PM
....

"Defray expenses" MY EXPLETIVE.


Well, no offense intended.  Please note that this being the R/F board I was speaking in the context of faire performers.  In other contexts, yes, I do know any number of actors and musicians who are able to build successful and lucrative careers, often through a combination of teaching and performance.

And true enough, there are a handful of fully professional performers making real money at the larger festivals.  But it's rare.  At the other extreme there are people with volunteer contracts that include no hat pass privileges who are just there because they want to be.  The large middle is made up of people who either a) have few expenses or b) have day jobs that pay the mortgage.


Ahhhh...so you're not talking about "professional faire performers", you're talking about "everyone I ever see who appears in costume at the renfest and didn't buy a ticket to get in."

I'm not sure what to call your category, but it's not "professional performers." Or even, for that matter, "performers."

What you mean is, "the people in costume who work at the festival, of whom 80-90% are local cast".

And if you want to paint the category that broadly, then yeah, "rare" and "handful" are probably accurate. However, in the context of "professional faire performers," MOST acts at MOST faires are making a living. Why don't you take a walk backstage sometime and check out the giant trailers with the pull-outs and the big shiny pick-up trucks?

L Dale Walter

#23
Quote from: Prof. John Bull on November 17, 2009, 01:03:38 AM
And true enough, there are a handful of fully professional performers making real money at the larger festivals.  But it's rare.  

Not really rare.  There are a lot of acts that clear $100,000 a year plus, and, remember, all of that hat is CASH.

Local cast?  Yes, they usually are working for little money, or comps, or food books.  But, then again, they agreed to this, and often have few duties other than adhere to a grid system of scheduling.  For many it is their social life, or break from their ordinary lives.

My last show (MiRF 2009) had 8 scenes and like 38 sword fights, we did 1 1/2 hours at front gate at opening, and at least an hour at closing.  My part (just the bad guys) posed for 429 pictures in one day (I have no idea how many were snapped that we didn't pose for).  

If you want to get paid, you have to work.

aerial angels

Dear God, Dale, I never thought I'd agree with you on anything :)

L Dale Walter

#25
Quote from: aerial angels on November 17, 2009, 09:42:17 AM
Dear God, Dale, I never thought I'd agree with you on anything :)

In the end, I usually find those I butt heads with are more alike than different.   Those that aren't passionate about what they do just roll over, or run away... ;)

BLAKDUKE

Quote(It was a bit shocking to have the Queen dismiss us with barely a glance, clearly thinking we were weird patrons, when I tried to give her a flowery compliment).

Good God If I ever do that, please feel free to give me a swift kick in the ar$e!!!!!!!!!
Ancient swordsman/royalty
Have Crown/Sword Will Travel

aerial angels

Quote from: Prof. John Bull on November 17, 2009, 04:09:15 PM
Possession of a bright, shiny pickup truck attached to a fancy trailer is, at best, a poor marker for the financial success of a performing career.

Not in the renaissance festival circuit, it's not. If that's the professional arena we're talking about, then you may want to familiarize yourself more with the venue and talk to some of the participants - truck and trailer have reached cliche status as a marker for success in our world. When you live on the road, visible house and transportation have a great deal to say about one's level of success. Are there top-level pro acts living in tents? Maybe, but I've never met one.

At this point, Steve (John Bull), I'm interested to know more about who you are and why you're here - I've been on this forum for awhile, and I recognize the other people in this debate. You're new (welcome) and we'll all be able to address your questions with more accuracy if you fill in a bit of background.

Since you're new - I'm a professional street/festival/event performer, and have been on the renfaire circuit for going on 21 years. I've worked at festivals including Florida, Sarasota, Bay Area, Tennessee, Maryland, King Richard's, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Sterling, Bristol, Kansas City, Scarborough and numerous smaller fairs. I've been volunteer and professional cast, street act, stage act, administration, crafter, and drafted proposals and business plans for new faires and faires doing a change of direction. I wrote the cast handbook on improv and interaction for Bay Area. I'm familiar with most major management companies and corporations on the circuit. I also work in corporate entertainment, and have performed at events and street festivals all over the world, most recently doing a 7 week tour in the Balkans. As a professional playwright and director, I serve as a guest artist for existing companies, theatres and schools. Most recently I created and directed Fallen at the University of Alaska, directed Midsummer Night's Dream for Rollins College (Florida), and taught workshops as the American representative at Mondial du Theatre in Monaco. My plays are published through Theatrefolk.

As a working artist, I'm vested in not only my own success and that of my friends and colleagues, but also in noticing more about the perception of artists in the world. Right now I'm reading blogs by Neil Gaiman, Hazel Dooney (who has awesome things to say about art and marketing), Amanda Palmer and Hugh Macleod (Gaping Void). I am fascinated by all of their takes on art, money, and the profession of being a full-time working creator and performer, and how all those things intertwine. Amanda Palmer recently addressed the issue of virtual hat pass in a brilliant post called, "Why I am not afraid to take your money", and Hugh Macleod has just put out a fabulous book, "Ignore Everybody" that expands on his post, "How to Be Creative", which is about being a working artist (Hugh, btw, advises people NOT to quit their day job, and he's been writing lately about the evolution of his "day job" - which is now the part of his artistic career that pays the bills).

What's your faire experience and theatrical background?  Why are you invested in these particular issues? What brings you here? What is your research and sources up to this point, and why do you seek additional information from this forum?

Allison Williams
Artistic Director
Aerial Angels
www.angelsintheair.com

Carl Heinz

I suspect that part of the problem is a lack of familiarity with the differences between East and West Coast events.

Out here (California) the emphasis is not on the stage shows but on the entire venue.  The whole site is considered to be a stage.

I suspect that Bristol is probably a good example of this since both it and RPFS are owned by REP and we have shared entertainment directors.

Since I've not yet had the opportunity to visit an event on the opposite coast, I can only base my suspicions on the threads I've seen here and on other forums.

I get the impression that there is a much greater emphasis on stage shows.  Out here, stage shows are important, but I don't feel that they have as significant an impact on the overall production.

RPFS has evolved over a period of 47 years from what was basically an outdoor classroom exercise in Elizabethan history to an event with stage shows, games, crafts, joust, and a large number of street characters who are basically the villagers.  The latter come with varying levels of artistic skill, but they all contribute to the overall ambiance.  They have to attend workshops and have an approved costume.  A significant number of workshops are geared to developing improv skills.

When I first started faire, I was basically a construction hand and banner carrier.  I became sufficiently confident that I began doing minor gigs with others and did meet & greet.

Unfortunately, the body no longer permits a more physically active role so I and my wife went to a fair amount of effort creating a major anachronism called Lightning Scooter-Horse.  This allows me to continue to interact with the public, provide an amusing photo op, interact with the children of visitors and others who have mobility problems.

My wife and sister give demonstrations of household skills of the period such as spinning, crocheting and knitting.  In fact, my wife was asked to and created  a group to provide such demonstrations at other events in the area.

The stage artists are important to the show, but they are one part of it.  We make up another part which I feel also makes a significant contribution.

To be truthful, I rarely have the time to attend stage shows since I'm usually out in the street.  The folks who pay at the gate don't have this limitation.
Carl Heinz
Guild of St Cuthbert

temper

Quote from: aerial angels on November 18, 2009, 10:43:40 AM
Amanda Palmer recently addressed the issue of virtual hat pass in a brilliant post called, "Why I am not afraid to take your money", and Hugh Macleod has just put out a fabulous book, "Ignore Everybody" that expands on his post, "How to Be Creative", which is about being a working artist (Hugh, btw, advises people NOT to quit their day job, and he's been writing lately about the evolution of his "day job" - which is now the part of his artistic career that pays the bills).

Thank you for sharing those Allison,
and that's quite the dossier!
Temper; what makes a good sword, be sure to keep it.