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*gasp* zippers...and reversible sleeves!

Started by VintageJen1984, November 17, 2009, 10:42:49 AM

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VintageJen1984

So as I mentioned in the Garbing forum, I plan to make this for TRF in ten days: http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M4491.htm the bottom right hand pattern with the bell sleeves, and I have a couple of questions.

First of all, it laces up the back...and I am terrible at grommets. And I don't have the time and probably not the skill to do hand-sewn eyelets. So...if I'm not striving for h/a this year too terribly...would it be awful of me to put in a zipper instead? If I'd decided to make garb farther in advance or had some help I would do the grommets, but the time crunch...

And also, I want to make the lower part of the sleeves (the bell) reversible. Is that insane? I can do the sewing, no problem, but I'm wondering how to make it detachable, and what to use to attach it. I have some ideas but I thought I'd ask here, to see if any more advanced seamstresses might have better ones. :D

Thanks!

gypsylakat

Just do grommets or eyelets, they're really not that bad.
for grommets you just make holes evenly don't cut, just separate teh fabric with an awl (or a screwdriver if you're like me and don't have one, something kind of dull)
push the grommets in and either press with a grommet press or hammer with a mallet according to directions, they take like 15 minutes.

If you want to make the grommets a little stronger, just take embroidery floss and stitch around them like start outside the grommet go in the grommet hole and around and through.

Eyelets are pretty much the same: make a hole, stitch in the fabric a little bit, go through the hole you made and repeat all the way around. I like to add a jump ring for shape/stability but that's just me.

I really think that you should do eyelets, the zipper will show, and you'll like it better with eyelets or grommets.
You could start by trying them on the sleeve...
"A kiss can be a comma, a question mark or an exclamation point.
That's basic spelling that every woman ought to know."

VintageJen1984

Thanks. I hadn't thought about sewing around the grommet for stability. Thats a good idea. I'm about to head to Hobby Lobby in a few minutes so I will look at them.

Lady Kathleen of Olmsted



If you go with Grommeets,a local Shoe Repair shop should be able to put them in for you for a nominal fee. Just be sure to have a sturdy surface in which the grommets will stay on. Such as using strips of Cotton Canvas Duck as an underlining. I have Bodices and Corsets done at the shoe Repair. I first make all the marks in chalk where the grommets are to go.

If you do not want to do Grommets, i might suggest using an Invisible Zipper. You will need to purchase an invisible Zipper foot for your sewing machine. That way, when zipped, the back will look more like a seam.

For detachable sleeves that I line, two different fabrics can be used to make them reversible.  Grosgrain ribbon works slick. Mark where your center and notches are to place your ribbon ties. I make my ties about 24" long and finish the knotted ends with bolo tips or aglets. Under the Armsythe or shoukder area, I hand sew in 3-1/2" wide plastic drapery rings. They do not show from the outside.

Hope this helps.
"As with Art as in Life, nothing succeeds like excess.".....Oscar Wilde

gem

1. You can do whatever you want.  It's your garb.  If you want a zipper, use one.  It's really nobody else's business.  However, if you're looking for alternatives to grommets/eyelets, try lacing rings.  Here's a period portrait showing how they work.  They function like grommets, but are sewn to the top of the clothing, instead of making holes in the garment itself.  It's best to use solid metal rings, but you might not be able to find them in time.  I think you can use the jump rings that Kat mentioned.  I often use clasps on things when I don't want grommets or buttons, but I think that might be too much hassle for something that fastens up the back.  Another option would be fabric loops.  I can't find a picture, but I have them on a couple of pieces of garb.  They're loops of fabric (usually sewn into a seam for strength), and your lacing cord goes through those instead of grommets/eyelets/rings/etc.  You could use ribbon, which is less of a hassle than turning loops.  I personally think they look really fetching on garb.

2.I think Lady K has a good idea about your sleeves--making the entire sleeve reversible and having ties at the shoulders.  That's very period, and it looks *awesome.*  Of course, you'll want a chemise under, to puff through the gap between sleeve and gown.  You could do the same effect with just the bell portion, too, I'd think.  If you wanted to do something with no gap, I'd probably run a row of grommets the whole way around and basically lash the bell section to the sleeve.  Or... if you used something like small snaps, you could hide them under the row of trim.

Good luck!  Can we see some progress pictures?  What kind of fabric are you using?

LadyShadow

I agree with just putting in grommets or eyelets.  I found out the hard way that grommets are a lot easier for me to do than a zipper is.  And I always sew over my grommets to help them match the fabric and hide the lil imperfections of hitting them with the hammer :D

Here is a pic of what mine look like when they are completed.



Best of luck
May the stars always shine upon you and yours.

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operafantomet

What about hooks and eyes for the back? All you have to do is find the right placement and sew them on.

For whatever it's worth, it's also a period approach (found in the stays/velvet bodice of Eleonora di Toledo, amongst others). Might be a bit hard to put on alone, though. Zipper would too. That's the good thing about lacing... If you use an abnormally long cord and lace it in place in a way enabling you to get into the garb, you can tighten it while on you. Eventually, put it on with the backside in front, lace it almost in place, but loose enough for you to be able to turn it around when on.

ArielCallista

If I were doing it I would definitely do eyelets or grommets over a zipper. It depends on your and your talents but zippers can be problematic...also it has to fit perfect...eyelets/grommets will give you a bit of leeway with sizing...As for the detachable/reversable sleeve you could get snaps...and make it snap into place on the underside of the armband thing...youd have the "male" side of the snap on the inside of the armband and then have "female" snaps on both sides of the sleeve at the same spacing...and then just snap the sleeves into place before getting dressed...
Things are shaping up to be...
Pretty. Odd.

Hoowil

Why not both? Do the zipper, using a hidden zipper, then add grommets or eyelets later as time permits. Invisible zippers are real small toothed, and do tuck in behind, so they would hide behing laces okay, zipped or not.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with catsup.

isabelladangelo

Echoing operafantomet a bit:  Hooks and eyes.   They are period and you'll be happier in the long run with that.   They sell hook and eye tape.  There is also eyelet tape and it takes all of a second to sew that in.   http://www.lucysfabrics.com/store/categories/Eyelet-Tape/

My suggestion would be a mix of both.   Put the eyelet tape on the inside to cinch the gown/bodice closed and then use the hooks and eyes to keep the outer layer closed.   

Elennare

Another suggestion, if you decide to go w/lacing rings and can't find "lacing rings" anywhere:  buy a bunch of the smaller hook-and-eye fasteners, and just use the eye.  Sew them up either side of the opening, and lace through them, just like they were lacing rings.  I did that for a pair of boot covers, and it worked wonderfully.
My (infrequently updated) costume blog: http://manufactorumbrandis.wordpress.com/

gem


Cilean



It is very simple to get rid of the Zipper in this pattern. I would also like to say? If you do this in a Mock Up or basic cheap fabric called a "Toile" and have a friend help you fit this to your body? it will look smashing and you leave the seam allowance in where the Zipper is supposed to be.

Making lacing holes takes practice only like anything and you will need an awl and pearl embroidery thread you can get from any Craft Store.
Here is a great showing of how to make Lacing Holes:

http://www.eleanorlebrun.com/closure.htm

It is a very simple gown I think you can create it in under 4 hours.

Good luck

Lady Cilean Stirling
"Looking Good is not an Option, It is a Necessity"
My Motto? Never Pay Retail

gem

There actually isn't a zipper in this pattern, IIRC; it's drafted for grommets, but the OP was asking about swapping out FOR a zipper.  Unusual request for us here, but we'll try to help anyway! ;D

Adriana Rose

I donno how well it would work if you swapped out for a zipper. I have made that gown and it has a funly thing that makes it so that grommets work.

I did not want to have the back lace up so I just sewed it so it could slide over my head. But since it was possible to sew the back up i imagine with some swearing and a bit of pinning it could work. You could take a piece of trim to cover the zipper.

VintageJen1984

Quote from: Elennare on November 18, 2009, 12:10:38 PM
Another suggestion, if you decide to go w/lacing rings and can't find "lacing rings" anywhere:  buy a bunch of the smaller hook-and-eye fasteners, and just use the eye.  Sew them up either side of the opening, and lace through them, just like they were lacing rings.  I did that for a pair of boot covers, and it worked wonderfully.
That is a fantastic idea! It's not that I am averse to lacing, and I really didn't *want* to have a zipper. I just had a really bad experience with grommets my first time around. I've gone ahead and bought some, and there's three extra than what I need. I'm going to try them on a scrap piece of fabric, and if it works, I'll use them. If not, I'll buy some hook-and-eyes and do this! Thanks *so much* for this suggestion!

VintageJen1984

Quote from: ArielCallista on November 17, 2009, 06:16:13 PM
If I were doing it I would definitely do eyelets or grommets over a zipper. It depends on your and your talents but zippers can be problematic...also it has to fit perfect...eyelets/grommets will give you a bit of leeway with sizing...As for the detachable/reversable sleeve you could get snaps...and make it snap into place on the underside of the armband thing...youd have the "male" side of the snap on the inside of the armband and then have "female" snaps on both sides of the sleeve at the same spacing...and then just snap the sleeves into place before getting dressed...
I installed a zipper on my very first dress, no problem. But I really did want grommets, I just had a really bad experience with them. I like the idea of the snaps. I've also considered hook-and-eyes as well. One of the two fabrics I have is sort of heavy, though and I'm worried about whether snaps or hooks would hold. I'll have to think about it some more.

ArielCallista

haha I had the exact opposite situation. I can put in zippers but they always look bad or come apart or something and I got grommets and eyelets down pretty well. as for snaps holding up the sleeves, you can get really large ones from hobby lobby that are about the size of a quarter and they're super sturdy so they should be able to hold up the weight of the sleeve even with heavy fabric
Things are shaping up to be...
Pretty. Odd.

Kate XXXXXX

What has been done in the past for a gown like this is to make the back lacing and close it permanently, and then have a zip in the side under the arm for ease of access.  Done with a concealed zip, this works very well.

However, if you want to avoid putting the eyelets in altogether, make up the back opening, leaving off the eyelets, and stick a zip in there instead.  Because of the way the back opens (if I recall correctly), you may want to install a separating zip.