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Faire Garb => Garbing => Topic started by: Adalia Lee on February 09, 2011, 12:25:23 PM

Title: Hat ideas
Post by: Adalia Lee on February 09, 2011, 12:25:23 PM
Hi there,
I need some help coming up with hat ideas for a friend of mine. She wants a new hat for this season, and I am having a really hard time suggesting one to match her garb/status. (It also does not help that she is somewhat picky)
Does anyone have any suggestions?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/82575406@N00/sets/72157625887209897/ is where you can find pictures of her with a french hood and attifet (sorry I wasn't sure how to post pictures)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: bookwench on February 09, 2011, 02:00:52 PM
How about a pillbox?  This is a pic I took at TRF this past year because I thought her pillbox was so pretty...

(http://dreamhats.com/images/image/BlogPix/pillbox_flatcap(1).jpg)
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: ArielCallista on February 09, 2011, 02:04:37 PM
What about a hat like this
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2706/4412003071_37ae7cc167.jpg)

I'm not sure what its called but I've seen it done several times...It can be done with just a little trim and a small brooch or something or a crap ton of feathers depending on the style she likes...I'm sure someone will see this thread and know what this kind of hat is called...
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Rowan MacD on February 09, 2011, 03:05:07 PM
   Tall hat.
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: McGuinness on February 09, 2011, 03:19:23 PM
Yeah, looks like a tall hat to me (LOVE that orange/gold costume, btw. What a color!)

A riding hat might be nice too. Very similar to a tall hat but slightly different in proportions. Check Tall Toad - their hats are of great quality and they have several varieties.
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Adalia Lee on February 09, 2011, 03:49:07 PM
You guys are awesome! Both the tall hat and the pill box are great :)
Btw, has anyone ever used any of Lynn McMasters hat patterns? Due to our limited budget we are going to attempt to make it rather than purchase it.
Thanks for all of your help so far!
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: bookwench on February 09, 2011, 04:58:32 PM
I've used some Lynn McMasters patterns, and had mixed results.  The renaissance and medieval ones are great, the Victorian ones can be difficult (or maybe just the one I tried to do - it was more architecture than millinery!). 

You should have no problem with either the pillbox or tall hat pattern from her.  Good luck!


Quote from: Adalia Lee on February 09, 2011, 03:49:07 PM
You guys are awesome! Both the tall hat and the pill box are great :)
Btw, has anyone ever used any of Lynn McMasters hat patterns? Due to our limited budget we are going to attempt to make it rather than purchase it.
Thanks for all of your help so far!
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Adalia Lee on February 14, 2011, 04:40:17 PM
Another Lynn McMasters question-has anyone made the ladies german hat? Was it difficult and where did you find the stiffened wool?
Thanks  :D
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on February 14, 2011, 10:19:49 PM


Most all of Lynn McMasters(my mentor in all things period) uses Stiff Buckram for the base of her hats. I have most all of her patterns and they come out wonderful.

My Period Hats Album....http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/568945717rrLAko (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/568945717rrLAko)

All the hats you see in this album are based on Lynn's basic patterns. Her intructions are the easiest to follow.
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: bookwench on February 14, 2011, 10:21:20 PM
I have that pattern, have cut out the pieces and fiddled about with it, but haven't yet made a finished hat from it. The instructions seem sound, though, and so far it has gone together well (and someday I'll actually finish it!).

My suggestion for the felt would be to get it from a millinery supply house like Hats by Leko (http://www.hatsupply.com/flat_fur_felt.htm), and then stiffen it with some felt stiffener (http://www.hatsupply.com/sizingstiffeners.htm).  Depending on the felt you might not have to stiffen it much at all.  Theoretically Joann's has 100% wool felt  - at least, they have a sign up in my local store advertising it - but I have yet to ever find it on the shelf.  


Quote from: Adalia Lee on February 14, 2011, 04:40:17 PM
Another Lynn McMasters question-has anyone made the ladies german hat? Was it difficult and where did you find the stiffened wool?
Thanks  :D
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Adalia Lee on February 15, 2011, 09:25:51 PM
Thanks guys, and Bookwench if you do finish it before I get to it let me know how it went! It will be my first attempt at an actual hat. I've made french hoods before, but I cheated and used a visor  ;)
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: bookwench on February 15, 2011, 10:25:34 PM
If you made a French hood, I bet you can make this! :D

Quote from: Adalia Lee on February 15, 2011, 09:25:51 PM
Thanks guys, and Bookwench if you do finish it before I get to it let me know how it went! It will be my first attempt at an actual hat. I've made french hoods before, but I cheated and used a visor  ;)
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Adalia Lee on February 16, 2011, 10:35:27 AM
One would think so, however my french hood required no sewing, just lots of hot glue :D
Like I said, I cheated and used an old visor turned upside down and covered that with fabric and pearls and a lace veil. It worked pretty well for a last minute project!
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4077/5450697153_a5cf967259_m.jpg)
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Rowan MacD on February 16, 2011, 12:22:23 PM
Quote from: Adalia Lee on February 16, 2011, 10:35:27 AM
One would think so, however my french hood required no sewing, just lots of hot glue :D
Like I said, I cheated and used an old visor turned upside down and covered that with fabric and pearls and a lace veil. It worked pretty well for a last minute project!
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4077/5450697153_a5cf967259_m.jpg)
Nice work!  I made one from a visor too, and it looks fine.  Since I got a really nice visor, it stays in place very well, with no pins ;D
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: amy on February 16, 2011, 12:44:48 PM
that is an amazingly clever idea!   Thank you!
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Adalia Lee on February 16, 2011, 02:46:32 PM
Be aware though, that while the stiff and sturdy visors look great and are easier to use, the flexible foam ones are a lot more comfortable!
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: gem on February 16, 2011, 03:48:47 PM
A word of caution on the sun-visor French hoods, for anyone needing their garb to be historically accurate: It might be an easy way to make a French hood, but visors produce a very tall silhouette that wasn't really seen in period--and sun visor French hoods are a frequent target of garb purists. Kimiko Small (who wrote the historical notes for Margo Anderson's Tudor Woman's Ensemble) talks about French hoods here (http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/CostumeMythsWS/myth21.html) and here (http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/). And Drea Leeds offers notes and a more historically accurate method of construction here (http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/frenchhood.html).
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Adalia Lee on February 16, 2011, 05:06:06 PM
Like I said before, it was a last minute project, and by no means meant to be H/A, considering most french hoods came down in front of the ears and had a different shape.  This was a "shoot I don't have anything to cover my head with and the hat that I ordered won't be here for a few days and faire is this weekend" type of project.
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Rowan MacD on February 16, 2011, 06:55:57 PM
Quote from: gem on February 16, 2011, 03:48:47 PM
A word of caution on the sun-visor French hoods, for anyone needing their garb to be historically accurate: It might be an easy way to make a French hood, but visors produce a very tall silhouette that wasn't really seen in period--and sun visor French hoods are a frequent target of garb purists. Kimiko Small (who wrote the historical notes for Margo Anderson's Tudor Woman's Ensemble) talks about French hoods here (http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/CostumeMythsWS/myth21.html) and here (http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/). And Drea Leeds offers notes and a more historically accurate method of construction here (http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/frenchhood.html).
Yeah, you do have to watch out for the 'period police' if you choose the visor method if you are going to be somewhere where HA is an issue, like some of the larger fairs.  If you are going to be part of a coourt, you should probably just make a hood from buckrum and wire and be done with it.
  I think the ideal width (or height) for a french hood is somewhere between 1.5 to 2 ";  visors are about 3"-3.5"  I suppose if you wanted to cut a visor down by what ever means, you could make it work. It would be an interesting experiment...
  The visor hood that Adalia made is lovely and is very close to many of the handmade versions I've seen at faire (and better than some) on many cast members.  It would pass muster in most of the venues I've been to, but probably not in the SCA.  I suppose it depends on where you plan to wear it, and how HA you are trying to be.
  Hey, I would say if it looks good on you and looks reasonably accurate, wear it. Have fun!
 The research does indeed show the hood is supposed to lie flat, but if you reference Hollywood (and that is where most mundanes get their idea of how things should look) then a french hood stands up like a tiara.
   Edit: Come to think of it,  I have never seen a period accurate hood at faire.
  Just the Hollywood versions that stick up like mini-sails.   How odd.





 
 
 
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on February 16, 2011, 10:41:18 PM


When it comes to French Hoods, I do all the ones I make by hand...(http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/69/669/0/69/44/2359069440025619629wjppUn_th.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2359069440025619629wjppUn) using the patterns of Lynn McMasters.

(http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/69/669/1/24/55/2894124550025619629YySGCB_th.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2894124550025619629YySGCB)
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Adalia Lee on February 17, 2011, 09:18:23 AM
And they are gorgeous!
Hopefully this year I can add to my collection. I have about 3 different hats I want to make. One of them being an actual french hood (and not another cheater one  :) ) I've been banned from buying anything Renaissance related until we get our tax return back, so I am waiting as patiently as I can.
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: bookwench on February 17, 2011, 01:52:30 PM
Last minute or not, I think it turned out nice :)

I make my French and English hoods out of buckram as well, and since buckram wilts in the rain I use a strong spray water repellent once they're finished (was going to post a link to a photo, but the html is giving me fits!)

As far as historical accuracy, I agree that visors give more of an upward tilt than what's usually seen in the historical record.  I started researching hoods using Kimiko's articles (which are brilliant, by the way!), and thought I had the basic structure pretty well figured out.  Then I read the Tudor Tailor, and they show a much different structure - the hood meets in the back under the veil, almost like a sort of helmet.  I'd never seen anything like that before, except for that recent Simplicity pattern (and I figured that construction was just a modern technique to make it easier to wear).   What do you guys think?  Any idea which is more correct?   


Quote from: Adalia Lee on February 16, 2011, 05:06:06 PM
Like I said before, it was a last minute project, and by no means meant to be H/A, considering most french hoods came down in front of the ears and had a different shape.  This was a "shoot I don't have anything to cover my head with and the hat that I ordered won't be here for a few days and faire is this weekend" type of project.

Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Rowan MacD on February 17, 2011, 03:01:03 PM
   Anybody got ideas for a Gable hood?  The Dress I just ordered needs either a french or a gable hood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gable_hood

Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: LadyStitch on February 17, 2011, 03:12:16 PM
I made a french hood about oh.. 9 years a go? (YIKES!)  I found a pattern online that an art student who was studying historical garments hat put up.  It was a nice tudor one.  At the advice of people on here I used plastic canvas with 16 gage floral white hand sewn to it,  with a thin layer of batting over it, and then the fabric over it. I had something like 24+ hours in just the hat.  It wasn't completely historicall accurate but it worked well, and stood up to a freak rain shower with out melting which is what I was going for.   I like it and that is what matters. 

The other elizabethian hat i made was a tall hat.  Turned out nice but I had hours on it hand sewing, glueing, and such.  I would do it again, but just doesn't fit with my characters any more.   
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on February 17, 2011, 08:28:35 PM
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/30666_433164141279_568686279_6038840_6404654_n.jpg)

(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/30666_433164151279_568686279_6038841_8277711_n.jpg)

The Gabled Hood, all done by hand from the Margo Anderson pattern from the Tudor Lady's ensemble, done for Lady de Laney last year. This hood is done all by hand using Plastic Canvas for the base, the back box,  Polar Fleece, lots of Hot Glue, Millinery Wire, etc. This hood took me 12 hours to do from start to finish.

Suggested retail Price is $275(Labor and Materials) plus shipping.
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: LadyStitch on February 18, 2011, 08:55:31 AM
And people gripe why good quality hats ( be they ren or not)  cost a fortune. /sigh
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on February 18, 2011, 09:40:55 AM


Good Quality hats cost a small fortune because they are that...QUALITY!!! One can see that from the first moments they set eyes on one.

What one spends for one good hat, others will have replaced the same hat several times over the life of one hat, thus spending more in the long run.

It's the same with Garb. Well made garb is a chunk of change in the beginning. But over the course of many years, that garb will still look as good as the day it was delivered with proper care and wear.

Even in this Economy, clients want Rolls Royce quality and are willing to pay for it.
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Rowan MacD on February 18, 2011, 10:09:13 AM
Quote from: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on February 17, 2011, 08:28:35 PM
(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/30666_433164151279_568686279_6038841_8277711_n.jpg)
The Gabled Hood, all done by hand from the Margo Anderson pattern from the Tudor Lady's ensemble, done for Lady de Laney last year. This hood is done all by hand using Plastic Canvas for the base, the back box,  Polar Fleece, lots of Hot Glue, Millinery Wire, etc. This hood took me 12 hours to do from start to finish.
Suggested retail Price is $275(Labor and Materials) plus shipping.
Lovely work, and it just about convinced me I need a French hood instead ;)
  That Gable looks like it would be hot to wear, though I love all the decoration!  I don't mind spending money on good quality garb. 
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: bookwench on February 18, 2011, 11:23:14 PM
You do beautiful work!

Quote from: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on February 17, 2011, 08:28:35 PM
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/30666_433164141279_568686279_6038840_6404654_n.jpg)

(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/30666_433164151279_568686279_6038841_8277711_n.jpg)

The Gabled Hood, all done by hand from the Margo Anderson pattern from the Tudor Lady's ensemble, done for Lady de Laney last year. This hood is done all by hand using Plastic Canvas for the base, the back box,  Polar Fleece, lots of Hot Glue, Millinery Wire, etc. This hood took me 12 hours to do from start to finish.

Suggested retail Price is $275(Labor and Materials) plus shipping.
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Rowan MacD on February 19, 2011, 08:58:18 AM
  OK.  I have the simplicity pattern for a french hood.  My question is this:
Would plastic needlepoint canvas work as a decent sub for buckram?

Edit:Strike that!  I re-read Lady Stitch's post above. I think I'll go with the plastic.  I may not need to wire the darn thing so much if the plastic holds it's shape so well....

 
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Rowan MacD on February 21, 2011, 03:02:12 PM
    I decided my machine can't handle the plastic so I went with Buckram after all, there are enough layers to sew through as it is. So far this is really interesting....
 The pattern I'm using has a 'hood base' that actually does circle the entire head and meets at the nape of the neck under the tubular veil.  The veil is sewn to the back of the base (which has two lappets that cover the ears) and the crown is attached to the forward edge of the base. I haven't attached the crown yet, but I figure once the crown tips are tacked down to the lappets, it will lie back over the head.  Complete hair coverage from about mid/top of skull back, depending on how far back on your head you want to wear it.
  Is this HA, or just the way this particular pattern is made?  Most of the Hollywood versions look like 'visor hoods'.
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: LadyStitch on February 21, 2011, 03:07:18 PM
I made the fabric cover using the machine, then slid it over the wired plastic canvas and batting.  I didn't try putting the whole thing under the machine.  That is one reason why my hats take so long. I do most of it by hand.
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on February 21, 2011, 09:49:09 PM


All French Hoods that I do are made with a sturdy Theater weight Buckram I order from Judith M Millinery. All I need is one layer. Costs an arm and a leg though, but so worth it!
Title: Re: Hat ideas
Post by: dragongirl on February 22, 2011, 02:04:28 AM
It might be considered cheating but, I've made a French Hood with a $2.00 visor from Wallyworld.  I used the visor as the form and pleated the fabric over the visor then applied the embelisments.  I would post a picture but I gave it as a gift to someone that I no longer speak with. 

I got the instructions as no-sew project but I found that the fabric held better when I sewed the fabric to the visor band.