RenaissanceFestival.com Forums

Performers => Performer Topics => Topic started by: Amyj on June 05, 2008, 06:19:20 PM

Title: Tipping
Post by: Amyj on June 05, 2008, 06:19:20 PM
We were tossing this about at faire last weekend and I thought I would get the opinions of others.

As season pass holders we see our favorite acts 2-3 times a weekend, 4-5 weekends a summer...and we make sure to tip each time ($5 is what we try to tip eash show, give or take)...and we buy their CDs.  We were wondering if performers would prefer the per-show tips, or one large $50-100 tip at the beginning of the season.  One point that was made was that when others (mostly the mundanes) see us tipping at the show it lets them know (or reminds them) that they too should tip.  So would it be good to do larger individual per-show tips or one medium $25-40 tip at the beginning of the season and then $2-4 per show tips throughout?

What do you think?
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Terry Griffith on June 05, 2008, 09:27:56 PM
Amyj,

I really hate to say this because I'm probably killing a good thing for some performer but you are really over the top.  $50 to $100?  Either you are fabulously wealthy or being very frugal with the truth.  Nobody tips that much for the whole season or just once.  For a tip like that, most performers would come to your house and do a whole evening.

Tempering your enthusiasm with reality, I would rather see everyone tip anywhere from $1 to $5 each show.  Unfortunately, most people aren't blessed with the disposable cash that you seem to have and rather to embarrass someone that cant afford to tip to the extreme, I would like to see EVERYONE give a token amount. 

To contribute to the hat at a Ren Faire is to show appreciation for the entertainer's talent and performance.  Unlike a gig in a pub or nightclub, the ren tradition sends a message to the performer.  People who are visiting their first faire may not understand this but to walk away from a stage without giving some sort of a tip is like leaving a note saying, "Dude, you suck".  We don't expect a large amount (and any entertainer who does is taking advantage of the audience) but something that says thank you for sharing your talent, you are doing a good job.  If you gave me a really large tip on the first day of the season and then never gave me another cent, I would wonder what I did wrong all of a sudden.  Other partrons would wonder why you didn't leave a couple of bucks if you enjoyed it so much.

We get paid for our services.  Anyone who needs tips to live on is doing something wrong.  Buy CDs and don't make copies for all your friends and leave a token tip.  That's what we expect.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Cobaltblu on June 06, 2008, 09:59:11 AM
I attended my first ren faire last summer and it never occurred to me to tip the performers since I assumed they were being paid by the faire.  I paid about $22 to get into the faire.  I also didn't see anyone tipping them either (at all for any of the acts which I watched and really paid attention to) but they were selling CDs and merchandise and I did buy a few items from one or two acts.

Each act probably had 100-200 people watching for each performance and did maybe 2-3 performances a day so if everyone tipped on average $2 they would be making some good money.

If I gave a tip it would be about $2 per performance and maybe more or less depending on how good it was and whether or not the act was being paid by the faire.  I would never give money upfront because the whole idea of a tip is to show appreciation for a job well done (and done well without knowing that you will absolutely be given a good tip or already got it).

I would rather spend money on merchandise like CDs and T-Shirts.

Regards,

CB
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Terry Griffith on June 06, 2008, 11:41:31 AM
I certainly don't want to monopolize this discussion but there are a couple of things I neglected to mention that might have made the situation clearer to Cobaltblu.

Some faires are designated as "No Hat".  When I signed contracts for my first Ren Faire and saw "Hat rights" included, I thought, "I better be able to wear my hat, it's part of my costume" .  I soon learned that "Hat rights" meant you have the right to collect and expect tips by passing the hat or just having something on stage for people to put money in.

Cobaltblu, you don't mention what faire you went to last summer but I would bet it was a no hat faire.  Those generally pay the performers more than the ones that give hat rights and performers are not allowed to ask for tips.  That avoids the problem but it also leaves out an important part of Ren tradition.  The gate charge is also usually lower at faires that expect paytrons to tip.  It's only a few dollars less and you might end up tipping twice that throughout the day but the price of everything has gone up.

Also, a large faire with large seating areas may have 100 to 200 people but most only have 30 or 40 people in the audience at the busy part of the day and maybe only 12 people for the first show.  Seating area may be a deciding factor in giving hat rights or not.  For a large audience, if everyone came to the stage to tip and speak with the performers and buy CDs, it would run into the next act's stage time. 

That is another consideration.  When someone comes to the stage to tip, it's also an opportunity to interact with the performer.  Many people say, "good show" as they feed the hat and the response from the performer may lead to a conversation and relationship.  As a result, partrons may go on to buy a CD or come to the next show because they feel like they know the performer now.  It's a very pleasureable part of the experience for both parties and something I miss at other genres like mundane pubs.  As a side note, I always envied the cleavage of bawdy wench acts because it was an extra incentive to gentlemen to tip.  Feeding a hat is not half as nice as stuffing a farthing in a bodice.

In order to make general observations about things like tipping, all these things should be taken into consideration.  To make a general statement, one would have to say that tipping at a Ren fest is traditional even if only a token amount and only if the faire owners allow it.

I'm done now.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: raevyncait on June 06, 2008, 12:57:11 PM
Honestly, there are only a handful of acts that I see over and over and over and over in a season.  The size of my tips generally are based on 1. how much I enjoyed the show and 2. the number of people in the act.  For example a $5 split for let's say, Don Juan & Miguel is going to be $2.50 each; on the other hand, for the Corsairs it's down to a buck each.  That being said, the acts that I do see several shows per day, every day of the season, I do spend quite a bit over the course of a season in their tip jar, and I have saved my $ and budgeted for it, because I tip a MINIMUM of $5/show, which equates out to $20-$30 per weekend, for the entire run (8 weekends).  No, I am not wealthy, and yes, I do buy merchandise, often multiples of items which I give as gifts. 
It is to the point with one act that I have to sneak the $ in, because if they see me they try to give my $ back to me. They do not live on the tips, but they do use them for food/drinks at faire.  It is my chance to show my appreciation for the joy that their work brings to my life.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: DonaCatalina on June 06, 2008, 02:11:32 PM
I have no idea how much his Excellency spends on tips; but I believe it is between $2 & $5 a show. I carry no cash myself.

At our faire we see maybe 8 or 9 people out of 30 tip at any given show we watch. So we make sure we tip at least something at every show we watch,
Pour encourager les autres

We also buy a lot of CD and spend time talking with our favorites, of which there are several. Over the years we've arrived at the point we consider most of them friends.

I can't imagine tipping anyone $100 at one go, though sometimes I'd like to be able to.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Amyj on June 06, 2008, 05:31:21 PM
Terry...I see your point about the amount of the money...I should have clarified that the only acts that we would tip THAT much to would be the 2 or 3 who are real favorites, not all of them.  :)  (and $100 was a dollar amount that we pulled out of the air based on what we calculated we spend per act over the entire run of faire...give or take $25)  I also only get to go to my home faire for the whole run and possibly one weekend at another faire, so $300 for a whole year....not too bad actually (and my home faire hits right about the time tax refunds are in too, so that helps). 

I just worry that $3-5 per show is so little compared to what I get out of the shows.

Maybe I could just up the per-show tip a little?  Dunno...like I said initially, we are tossing this out there and seeing how much of it sticks.  :)  (so hopefully I won't tread on any sore nerves with the topic)
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Once Debauched on June 06, 2008, 11:57:10 PM
I attend the same home faire as Amyj and they all "pass the hat." I also tip a minimum of $5 per show or $1 per person if more than 5 are in the act.  She's right, once you start splitting up the tips it ain't always much!  *chuckle*

I figure if these performers are willing to brave our miserable hot, humid, and often times wet weather to entertain us they've more than earned a $5 tip. I for one appreciate them coming to St. Louis when they could be somewhere with better weather!
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: aerial angels on June 07, 2008, 02:34:40 AM
Quote from: Terry Griffith on June 05, 2008, 09:27:56 PM
Amyj,

I really hate to say this because I'm probably killing a good thing for some performer but you are really over the top.  $50 to $100?  Either you are fabulously wealthy or being very frugal with the truth.  Nobody tips that much for the whole season or just once.  For a tip like that, most performers would come to your house and do a whole evening.

This is a really interesting discussion and I'm curious to see where it leads. It's kind of late here, so I'll chime in more later, but I just want to comment on this part -

Um, no. *Most* performers would not come to your house and do a whole evening for that price. I'm sure there are some professional performers that might do that, but going rates for private parties in most areas of the country are not $50-100 for an evening. That's what I advise my interns to charge per hour until they are polished enough to charge more.

Are there people who work in a lower price range? Of course. But please don't set up professional entertainers to have to defend their living wage any more than that situation already exists.

For the record, I have indeed received $50 and $100 tips. They tend to be at festivals where people are expecting to tip (busker festivals, specifically to watch street performing), and where there is no admission fee. It happens seldom enough to be a pleasant surprise, but it's not so remarkable that I tell my mom about it. It's not rare to get several twenties in a hat, and I'm proud to have worked hard to get my act to a point where that does happen.

Of course I want to set an appearance fee at a price point where I don't have to have the tips - but working at a hat pass renfest, I factor in my expected tips when I quote a price.

We are the ultimate people's entertainment - no-one has to "buy their ticket" until they've already seen the show and decided what that ticket was worth. And the people who can afford to buy expensive tickets directly subsidize the entertainment for the people who can't. Handshakes and smiles are always welcome, and part of my company's mission is to reach people regardless of ability to pay. But private parties are a different kettle of fish, and they aren't inexpensive :)


Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Terry Griffith on June 07, 2008, 08:18:11 AM
My apologies.  I was exaggerating a bit about coming to someone's home for an evening for $50 - $100.  I suppose someone would and there are performers who play for free for some faires but I wouldn't recommend anyone who would.  I was trying to make a point. 

I have received $50 tips as well but they are few and far between.  In todays economy where the haves and the have nots are so far apart, I'm happy to see someone has the disposable income to support the arts. 

To those who can afford it, let me offer a sincere "thank you".  You are truly patrons of the arts.  To those who cannot afford it, please don't feel obliged to follow suit.  Tip something, even if it's a buck.  I appreciate the gesture as much as the money.  That's what tipping should be about.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: anne of oaktower on June 07, 2008, 11:44:22 PM
AmyJ, I'm really glad you started this thread.  It has given me a few things to think about.  I'm afraid that, due to a vindictive ex, I am deep, deep in the hole.  Getting by, but in the hole, nevertheless.  There have been times when I have watched a show and felt as if I needed to "sneak out the back door" while everyone else was heading for the front, because I had simply run out of cash.  What a horrible feeling!  I felt as though I was sending the message that Terry spoke of..."Dude, you suck"...despite the fact that the performance was quite good.  I have finally learned to go to the bank and get a stack of ones before going to faire, so that I will definitely have tip money.  I had never considered though that the tip money doesn't break down to very much when split between multiple members of a group.  I will be sure to keep that in mind from now on and adjust my tip accordingly.

Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: anne of oaktower on June 07, 2008, 11:45:51 PM
Quote from: raevyncait on June 06, 2008, 12:57:11 PM
It is to the point with one act that I have to sneak the $ in, because if they see me they try to give my $ back to me. They do not live on the tips, but they do use them for food/drinks at faire.  It is my chance to show my appreciation for the joy that their work brings to my life.

raevyncait - perhaps the group who tries to give your tip back if you're caught sneaking it into the hat would like something else instead.  You've obviously come to know them rather well...would it be possible to present them with a plate of homemade goodies?

*** I would never recommend that as an alternative to tipping unless a guest has already established a mutual friendship with the performer(s) *** 
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Lady Nicolette on June 08, 2008, 07:42:57 AM
Since I'm at my home faire all season, I like to tip each day, but only the first show I see for the day, as I usually give $5 per person, max of $20 for any group.  At the moment, I'm well off financially, but can see the day ahead where this will have to be amended to $1 per person, max of $5 per group.  Since I used to gain part of my own living this way via my first husband, I know how close to the edge most performers live and am happy that right now I can afford to be more generous.  I also like to purchase the CD's that favorite performers release, as those are expensive for them to produce, this is the way they recoup their investment.  I agree that tipping as often as you can will tip off (pun!) the clueless in the audience.  I often will even announce, "Do as I do!" when walking up to a tip jar, it's amazing how many people will fall in line to do just that.  I have also been known to tip more extravagantly for a particular favor, like honoring a special request for a song or a song in the lanes.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: raevyncait on June 08, 2008, 08:27:47 PM
Quote from: anne of oaktower on June 07, 2008, 11:45:51 PM

raevyncait - perhaps the group who tries to give your tip back if you're caught sneaking it into the hat would like something else instead.  You've obviously come to know them rather well...would it be possible to present them with a plate of homemade goodies?

*** I would never recommend that as an alternative to tipping unless a guest has already established a mutual friendship with the performer(s) *** 

they are wonderful friends, and I have gotten very good at sneaking the $ in, when they aren't watching... and there are a few little things that I do that show them that they are appreciated.  I also know that even if someone doesn't have $ to put in the jar, or into a CD, a heartfelt "good show" is always appreciated. 

And speaking for myself only, as an audience member, I am less likely to notice that no tip was received from any one person who is sitting there at the end of the show than I am to notice the ones who made the not so stealthy exit just as the hat is being passed.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Cobaltblu on June 08, 2008, 08:39:28 PM
Yes the more I think of it the faire I went to (Sterling Renaissance Festival) must be a no-hat since I never saw a hat at any performance.  Nearly every act sold merchandise though and the more I think about it they probably made more profit off the merchandise than they might have made from tips, since a lot of people at every show bought one or more items at most shows.

Since it is no tip, this year I made some favors so I will offer favors to acts I especially enjoy to show my appreciation.

Regards,

CB
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Terry Griffith on June 08, 2008, 10:28:21 PM
Just one more short thought, I promise.

As a performer, I don't hold it against anybody who does not tip because I don't know anybody's story.  Except the people who request songs and then walk away without even throwing a quarter in the hat.  That is just plain wrong and I will talk about them after they are gone if not while they are still within earshot. 

And yes, it has happened.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: jarethmorgan on June 09, 2008, 02:14:24 PM
Just thought that I would add my two cents...

I have been performing at festivals since 2000, both as a variety act AND a music act. The bottom line is that music acts are the lowest paid acts at the faire. The management expects that we will make up the difference through hat passing and CD sales. Some faires are just NOT good CD faires. As a variety act, we ("The Magik of Morgan deGrey")were paid our daily rate and allowed to pass hat after each performance. Tips were good. However with my current music act, our daily rate is much lower and tips are just not as generous.

Think about this, if you will...

The stage acts are paid a daily rate for their performance, by the festival. Any money collected in hat, helps to cover expenses and other costs of travel to and from the festival, expendable props used in the show (ie. flash paper, paper streamers, blank ammunition, guitar strings, etc), not to mention things like fuel, tolls, hotels or campsites... Most people just don't realize how much money goes into being a performer. At a recent faire, we were spending more than 50 % of our daily rate for expenses. That is just not good business.

It seems (and please correct me if I am wrong)but it seems that if you are performing an act that is or "appears" dangerous to your own health...an audience will throw $$$ in your hat. If you are performing a "bawdy" act...people will throw $$$ in your hat. If you are working just as hard performing a music act or puppet show or children's' show...the tips are low, as people do not consider these show to be as entertaining as others. What about a bad weather weekend, where attendance is low? Very little in tips and very few CD's get sold on those days...even though we are still there and still performing.

If it were up to me, all faires would be "no hat pass" faires and we could all just be paid more and not have to worry about tips to make ends meet.

How much should people tip an act? Good question. But, I feel that if someone sits through your entire show, sings along with a song or two, smiles a bit, and stays until the very end...it must be worth a dollar or two.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: maelstrom0370 on June 09, 2008, 04:12:13 PM
As a somewhat regular faire-goer, it never dawned on me that the acts were paid by the management.  I always assumed the performers were doing it FOR the money they collected after each show.  With that mentality, I've always tipped $2-$5 per show with the odd $10 tip thrown in if it was a really good show (Delirio del Arte' and Washing Well Wenches being the most recent).  I once tipped $20 out of pity to a marionette who was being abused by a bunch of kids but other than that I always try and leave something in the hat.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: jarethmorgan on June 09, 2008, 05:04:25 PM
Quote from: maelstrom0370 on June 09, 2008, 04:12:13 PM
As a somewhat regular foregoer, it never dawned on me that the acts were paid by the management.  I always assumed the performers were doing it FOR the money they collected after each show.

Just to clarify...

A great many renaissance faire stage performers are full-time, professional entertainers. Performing is the only way that we make our living. After watching these performances and seeing the dollar bills get dropped into the hats...along with the loose pocket change...and even the occasional religious advertisement that is disguised to look like money...do you really think that we could possibly make a living without getting paid by the festival management?

Some of us travel great distances to get to the faires, so that we can perform and entertain the patrons. With the price and gas, food and everything else going up and daily rates staying the same...it sometimes makes it really tough to continue in the festival market. That is why it is really important that patrons continue to show their generous support for ALL of the performers. Without the support of the patrons and fans, there are very few acts that could survive.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Emerald Shaunassey on June 09, 2008, 07:21:11 PM
Quote from: jarethmorgan on June 09, 2008, 02:14:24 PM
Just thought that I would add my two cents...

The bottom line is that music acts are the lowest paid acts at the faire. The management expects that we will make up the difference through hat passing and CD sales. Some faires are just NOT good CD faires.

Think about this, if you will...

The stage acts are paid a daily rate for their performance, by the festival. Any money collected in hat, helps to cover expenses and other costs of travel to and from the festival, expendable props used in the show (ie. flash paper, paper streamers, blank ammunition, guitar strings, etc), not to mention things like fuel, tolls, hotels or campsites... Most people just don't realize how much money goes into being a performer. At a recent faire, we were spending more than 50 % of our daily rate for expenses. That is just not good business.

It seems (and please correct me if I am wrong)but it seems that if you are performing an act that is or "appears" dangerous to your own health...an audience will throw $$$ in your hat. If you are performing a "bawdy" act...people will throw $$$ in your hat. If you are working just as hard performing a music act or puppet show or children's' show...the tips are low, as people do not consider these show to be as entertaining as others. What about a bad weather weekend, where attendance is low? Very little in tips and very few CD's get sold on those days...even though we are still there and still performing.


Jareth,
     As the owner of a stage show that does NOT perform music (of any kind), I would have to disagree with you.  Musical stage shows DO make more per day/per weekend/per event than does my own 6 year old COMEDY show - always have, always will.  Just one of the many lumps of choosing to be comedic rather than musical.  Dangerous shows, bawdy shows, and musical groups get top billing, top stages, top dollar, and sooner return contracts over comedy shows - at least in my own experience with the many shows we've performed at across our geographical region.  We've even had events turn us down when they learn we are a comedy group. 

     You are correct that faire management does expect any stage show to pull excellent tips and merchandise sales at ALL shows EACH festival day.  The sad reality is that is doen't happen that way.  When it comes to the average faire goers budget, musical acts will outsell groups such as mine in CD's and T-shirts - I haven't figured that one out yet, but I'm still trying.  Part of it is that comedy isn't for everyone - while another part is that it is easier to drive and listen to music rather than attempting to do the same with comedy.

     Tips are the livelihood of my group; especially when one considers the costs "behind the scenes" that gets the finished product on the stage - the hours of prep/rehearsal time, the props, the trunk to hold the props, the merchandise, the fuel to haul a cargo trailer to contain all props, merchandise, the garbing and mundane clothes of 3-8 people.  Not to mention the cost of website and application/media packages that are sent out to 15-20 faires and events through out the year.  Then, there are the realities that my employees want to eat and drink during faire day; whether we bring our own or eat "on the faire."  And both options are going through the roof with today's economy.  In short, being a stage show of ANY kind makes absolutley lousey business sense.  And it gets worse as you go down through the "ranks" of the different kinds of stage shows out there (again with the top billing, top wages, etc). 

     Do any of my girls or myself expect a $10.00, $20.00 or higher tip during the day, let alone at EACH show??  No, absolutely not.  Would we like to see every person of every audience give what they can?  You betcha, it makes life easier for all of us.  Are we tickled when someone drops in a handfull of change or a buck?  H*ll YES!  BUT, we are also just as tickled when someone tells us "good show," "you really made me laugh," or if they ask to take a photo with us.  For we know we've made an impression and are now someone's "faire memory."  The money is very nice to offset the business side of what we do, don't get me wrong.  But the 'spiritual payment' is just as nice. 

     My advice to those who patronize hat-pass faires - give what you can - spread your wad of cash around to ALL shows; big names AND little names.  Give a buck to each stage show through out your faire day.  Encourage others to do the same and it will grow and spread.  Remember that those big name acts you follow from stage-to-stage where once a no-name group who were doing what they love to do and trying to survive.  And support those of us who are up-and-coming.  Most importantly, do what you can do/can live with to continue your support of performers everywhere, regardless of their choice of genre in which to work; buy our CD's, T-shirt's, and bumper stickers IF you can.  Tell us what you enjoyed (and didn't enjoy) about the show - surprisingly, performers listen (or they should, IMHO!).

     Sorry to rant and vent, just very passionate about what I and my troupe do and the very real double standards I've seen among stage shows at faires and other events.  We ALL work hard at what we have chosen to do - we ALL deserve to be listened to and supported, in what ever way works for our patrons and as equally among the stage shows as possible.

Thanks for "listening" - go out to your local faire and support my fellow artists!

Fair Winds
Emerald
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: anne of oaktower on June 09, 2008, 11:25:35 PM
Jareth and Emerald...

Thank you both for offering such a candid view of how acts are compensated...or not.  I have great respect for what all of the faire performers do, but respect doesn't pay the bills.  Henceforth, I shall set aside a wee bit more from each paycheck so that I may better do my part in supporting the acts I see at faire.  Who knows, I may one day be performing at faire myself and will certainly hope to see of that nice green paper landing in my hat.

HUZZAH to all faire performers for their love and dedication to providing such grand entertainment for everyone!
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: maelstrom0370 on June 11, 2008, 09:02:01 PM
Quote from: jarethmorgan on June 09, 2008, 05:04:25 PM
Quote from: maelstrom0370 on June 09, 2008, 04:12:13 PM
As a somewhat regular foregoer, it never dawned on me that the acts were paid by the management.  I always assumed the performers were doing it FOR the money they collected after each show.

Just to clarify...

A great many renaissance faire stage performers are full-time, professional entertainers. Performing is the only way that we make our living. After watching these performances and seeing the dollar bills get dropped into the hats...along with the loose pocket change...and even the occasional religious advertisement that is disguised to look like money...do you really think that we could possibly make a living without getting paid by the festival management?

Some of us travel great distances to get to the faires, so that we can perform and entertain the patrons. With the price and gas, food and everything else going up and daily rates staying the same...it sometimes makes it really tough to continue in the festival market. That is why it is really important that patrons continue to show their generous support for ALL of the performers. Without the support of the patrons and fans, there are very few acts that could survive.

WOW...I seem to have offended you.  I was merely pointing out that I've always tipped as I thought that was how the performers made their money.  As I've never been a performer at a faire, I have NO idea what it costs.  I'll continue to tip, regardless of what they're paid or by whom, as I always enjoy the shows and it just seems the right thing to do.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Sir Francis Drake on June 28, 2008, 03:03:54 AM
Tipping is always a 'hot' issue and IMO the biggest difference factoring into is the faire itself. I have been part of faires that paid each act one fee regardless of what type of act, the perceived danger level, number of performers etc. And I have been on faires where there was a varying scale of pay depending on such things as level of notability, perceived danger, length and number of performances and so on; and down to getting paid nothing but what you can get in the hat.

Faires that have been around a long time tend to do better in tips generally than newer faires; just as newer acts sometimes can take a bit to find a niche among the people.

That is why for full time faire performers tend to do one of two things; travel to a lot of different faires, or if lucky, getting long run contracts at the bigger faires.

For me, I am part-time performer, and have a full-time jobfor the necessary stuff. Tipping with me is more out of politeness and enjoyment of the show then a fiscal need. However, when I am watching someone else's show I always tip somethingso at the very least I acknowledge a fellow performer(s) skill and effort.

Like I have heard from performers all over through the years, and our show says pretty much the same; bottom line tip what you can truly afford and if you truly cannot that is fine, but please do come tell us if you enjoyed our performance regardless of tipping.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Lady Renee Buchanan on June 28, 2008, 08:22:03 AM
When we went to Jubilee Olde English Faire last weekend, after a show, I went up with a few dollars and looked for the hat.  There wasn't one, so I asked.  The performers told me that since the faire was held in a State Park, on state property they weren't able to pass the hat.  So I would be guessing that they were paid a decent wage by the faire management.  At least, I hope so!
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Terry Griffith on June 28, 2008, 10:02:36 PM
A humorous side note:

Last year, we were doing a promotional for the Pittsburgh Renaissance Festival at the Pittsburgh Zoo.  Not the kind of place nor situation where it would be appropriate to put out a hat and expect tips.  It was hot.  Very hot.  since I am a singer I need to keep my throat wet and water is the lubricant of the vocal chords.  Not to mention I was wearing a dublet of considerable weight and working hard playing guitar and singing.  I was not near the other performers or the Zoo administration which was taking care of our needs so I had to buy a bottle of water.  I poured it into my goblet and placed it in the cup older attached to my mic stand.  The water cost me $250 for the bottle but it was cold and did the t'roat a world of good.

A group of kids all about 15 stopped to listen to my music and seemed to appreciate what I was doing.  After a couple of songs, they decided to move along.  Two of them came over to me and proudly tossed a couple of quarters into my goblet.  I made .50 but lost $250.

Some days it doesn't pay to chew through the leather straps.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Nevik on July 27, 2008, 02:25:53 PM
Emerald is correct.  Musical acts can bring in good money.  I used to work with one that did quite well despite having members who couldn't play very well (if at all) or wouldn't put forth much effort (just didn't care).  The five-piece band could pull in as much as 1-3 thousand per person, per weekend, selling hundreds and hundreds of CD's (up to around 800 units per weekend).  The CD's weren't that well made, didn't cost that much to produce (around $1 per unit to press), and turned great profits.   Tips could be huge and could add hundreds of dollars to your pocket each weekend.  We know comedy acts that could bring in much more than that, btw.  :-)

You don't have to be that good of a musician as long as you have a "show" to deliver (we proved that).  The audience really never seemed to notice or care if the band performed poorly or extremely well.  The tips, sales, and renewed contracts balanced out around the same in the end (as records have shown).

My own personal feelings (opinions) are...money should NOT be your motivation as an "artist" (you'll never really be happy and compromise will get the best of you), don't expect tips (what makes you think people should hand over their money and why would you assume that?), and be grateful that you are able to do what you do (it won't last).  I only tip if I really enjoy their work and want to express just that.  I feel no guilt in not tipping, especially if it isn't exceptional work as I feel no need to provide positive reinforcement for something I didn't particularly enjoy no matter how hard they work at it.  I find it even more offensive if they beg for tips, lay guilt trips on the crowd, or go on and on about it.  If you need the tips that bad, get another job to supplement your income.

Have fun, be grateful, work hard, enjoy yourself.  Life is short!  :-)
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: nliedel on July 27, 2008, 02:58:12 PM
I can accept tips, but I'm not sure how to do it. I'm a lane act and move around, my character is an Italian flower seller and I sing Aria's in Italian, as well as perform with another artist part of the day. I have to carry a big honking basket of roses and my hats are pillboxes, attached to my head. Just have not figured this out at all, yet. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: SPR the Bagpiper on July 27, 2008, 06:15:46 PM
Quote from: nliedel on July 27, 2008, 02:58:12 PM
I can accept tips, but I'm not sure how to do it. I'm a lane act and move around, my character is an Italian flower seller and I sing Aria's in Italian, as well as perform with another artist part of the day. I have to carry a big honking basket of roses and my hats are pillboxes, attached to my head. Just have not figured this out at all, yet. Any ideas?

I bought this nifty belt-attached tankard-carrier from a leather shop, and I use it to carry around my goblet.  When busking, I just make sure I've finished the drink (usually water) and set it down in front.  Putting a buck or two into it helps passers by know its purpose, and that way I only have to carry around one thing.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Terry Griffith on July 27, 2008, 07:00:23 PM
I'll combine some replies here.

SPR, you have the right approach and do your part well.  The only problem with tipping a piper is that most people tend to enjoy piping from a distance.  :)

Nliedel, a small wooden bowl that you could carry in the afore mentioned honking basket would work well.  Just put it down in front of you when you perform in the lanes but don't forget to "prime" it with a couple of dollars AND some change.  The change mounts up and it's better to get change from many people than a dollar bill from a couple so don't forget to put change in your bowl as well.  People like to be seen giving tips so put it right in front of you and acknowledge each tip with a purty smile even in the middle of a song.

Nevik, I won't say you are speaking untruly but you are either stretching the truth quite a bit or your figures are are an exception to the rule.  A large exception.  I just don't want people reading this to paint all stage acts with the same brush.  Tipping is a way of acknowledging appreciation for the talent and ability of the entertainer.  Why would anyone tip a poor act or buy their CDs or pay them to perform badly?  That just doesn't make any sense.  Sorry, just can't accept your figures.  The act may have been very, very funny in which case the music proficiency is of no consequence.  Then they are a comedy act, not a music act but I still can't believe your figures.

To everyone else; we all make what we are worth to the owner and there is no standard.  You can't say any particular kind of act  gets paid more than any other kind.  If a musical act is good, and by that I mean entertaining musically and in presentation, they will be paid accordingly.  Same for any other kind of act.  Sit in the privy and fart sonatas and if the audience likes it, it will be paid well and receive tips.  Have the best garb and a very polished banter and sing off key and you won't be back.  It's as simple as that.  Most people know what sounds good or makes them laugh or cry or be amazed and our job is to get those reactions and how well we do that should be in ratio to what we are paid. 

Now I'm going to go and practice farting Beethoven's Pathetique for my new act.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: nliedel on July 27, 2008, 08:51:08 PM
I love the tankaredd idea. I have to keep my rose money seperate from my tips, but I built hidden compartments in the basket to hold things like that.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Nevik on July 27, 2008, 09:46:06 PM
Quote from: Terry Griffith on July 27, 2008, 07:00:23 PMNevik, I won't say you are speaking untruly but you are either stretching the truth quite a bit or your figures are are an exception to the rule.  A large exception.  The act may have been very, very funny in which case the music proficiency is of no consequence.  Then they are a comedy act, not a music act but I still can't believe your figures.

Terry,

I'll elaborate so you will understand.  I have no reason to deceive you about the sales and income.  What would be the point in lying?  This isn't a boast as there are acts that can crush those numbers in sales and fees.  There are a few successful musical acts out there in the faire circuit.  But...it's just chump change compared to the big players in the entertainment industry.  I remember one faire act that brought in around $1,000 in tips for a single show.  Sure, they were funny, talented, had very large crowds, and they obviously worked very hard to achieve those results, but they did it.

Re: my previous venture - It wasn't that funny of an act.  It was loud, it was brash, and it wasn't that well done...ever.  The band knew how to collect tips (cornering people, blocking isles, etc.), had a professional CD merchant who happened to have a PhD in economics, kept records of what worked and what didn't (demographics & all that jive), and worked very hard on every way to get more money.  Everything else was secondary.  Trust me...secondary to that.  It really was that contrived.
Here are a few factors that contribute to the sales.
1. "Eye candy" - Hire someone who may be "attractive" to a general part of the population and stick them in front (even if they don't have any talent or may be a jerk).
2. Dress provocatively.  It isn't too hard when you wear a kilt or something goofy in addition to that for example.
3. Pander to the "lowest common denominator" so you reach the majority of your audience.  Keep it simple.
4. Hire multiple sellers.  It works to catch the impulse buyers, especially in the realm of novelty.  If the buyer has time to rationalize, they'll pass.  Don't waste time with those sitting on the fence.
5. Have package deals as incentive to buy more "product."  One CD may be $15.  Buy all 4 discs for $50.  People love a bargain.
6. Add pitches for tips and sales throughout the performance to warm them up to buying your merchandise.
7. Have a variety of people in your act so everyone in the audience can have a "favorite" or someone to connect with.  The fool, the boss, the hunk, the jerk, the hipster...whatever.
8. Make it a "really big show" (or appear to be one) - convince the audience that you have something worth watching (even if it isn't) - unfortunately, music alone is just that.
9. Hit 'em fast and hard.  We learned that it didn't matter if you played 30 minutes or 15 minutes.  The sales would work out to be around the same.  If you go on and on and on, you add opportunity for them to get bored and leave, even if you are great.  They have a lot to see & turkey legs to buy, so get on with it.
10. Be the best person you can be to the buying audience.  Be a best friend, photo ops, autographs, offers to hang out, anything.  Build the fan base, even if you don't really care.

The band was ruthless in this venture and it worked.  I personally felt like I had sold my soul just by playing in the band and absolutely hated it.  I hated it so much that I quit despite being able to make over $3000 in one weekend for approximately 8-9 hours of work.  That's just how bad it was.  That's why I said money should not be your primary motivation in your art.  If you want more money, you can get it, but you might not like the results in the end.

I hope this is eye-opening for you and apologize if it seems heartless, calculated, or cold.  It's just a reflection of the inner-workings of a crappy, yet successful (business) band.  I'm not proud of it in any way shape or form and still find myself healing from the experience.  I just wanted you to know the truth and how it worked out.  I don't recommend it to anyone.  Do it because you love it and always remember that it won't last.  Be grateful, be happy, enjoy your life.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: ladyecho on July 27, 2008, 09:54:52 PM
     WOW. I waited tables for 8 years so I know about the ups and downs of tipping. But I have learned so much here about ren-tipping.  Both of my faires pass a hat and ,like many has said before me, I give what I can. One thing I want to mention that I don't think I have heard anyone hear say is that I heard most of the performers give a little speech at the end of their show (or song, or bit ) along the lines of if you like the show please tip. I especially like the Tortuga Twins speech of " tipping helps us to keep performing, if we can't make a living this way than we have to go back to our old jobs as kindergarten teachers". Most of the time I try to tip at least a golden dollar per show. Now I'll have to start saving more golden dollars, but like I said earlier " I give what I can."
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Terry Griffith on July 27, 2008, 11:35:11 PM
Nevik,

Hypothetical Question:  Where do you find audiences that dumb?

Not only would I not tip for that kind of act, I wouldn't buy their CDs or recommend the act to anyone, patron or ED.  What makes it all so hard to believe is that I deal with audiences every week all year long in and out of faire and have been doing it for 35 years and that kind of manipulation is always met with audience animosity. 

I'm glad for you that you got out with some dignity and applaud your principle.  I hope you are still performing and enjoying the experience.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: raevyncait on July 28, 2008, 12:30:23 AM
As I'm not a performer, and have only worked one season selling merchandise for performers, I don't claim to have the inside scoop on anything, however I know what kind of sales we had in a given day, and from the feedback of the band, they were mediocre most weeks, though when we finally got the latest CD in, sales did increase pretty well. Some days are better than others, but I think that's the way it goes in any business.

That being said, I have seen groups that, in my opinion, I wouldn't give a cent to, in fact, I go out of my way to avoid them.  I find them to be brash, obnoxious, and in general, mediocre at their craft, at best. Their instrumentation or schtick may be something that I enjoy in other groups, but these just drive me crazy.  Yet, every time I've seen them, performing at gate or in an open area (I avoid the stages at which they perform), the crowd is so thick you can't even see the performers.  Everybody has different tastes, I suppose, and not everybody can be Don Juan & Miguel, The Rogues, Fool Hearty, Zilch, or Tartan Terrors. 
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Nevik on July 28, 2008, 12:35:07 AM
Quote from: Terry Griffith on July 27, 2008, 11:35:11 PM
Hypothetical Question:  Where do you find audiences that dumb?

Not only would I not tip for that kind of act, I wouldn't buy their CDs or recommend the act to anyone, patron or ED.  What makes it all so hard to believe is that I deal with audiences every week all year long in and out of faire and have been doing it for 35 years and that kind of manipulation is always met with audience animosity. 

I'm glad for you that you got out with some dignity and applaud your principle.  I hope you are still performing and enjoying the experience.

It isn't so much about the audience being dumb.  They really only want a show, something to pass time, to lighten the load, to misdirect thoughts away from whatever is on their minds.  You don't have to be a rocket scientist to provide the audience with that.  Look at how many people waste time watching TV, YouTube videos, etc.  It doesn't necessarily have to be a quality piece of entertainment, does it?

Re: Manipulation - I think it depends on the package, the manipulator, style, technique, and so on.  If you look at the Billboard 100 for example, you will find quite a few "entertainers" who seem to have nothing to offer, but yet they are still in the top 100.  As an example...do you really think Britney Spears is talented enough to warrant her position?  Do you think it's the power of marketing?  If you and I both feel she has nothing to offer, why is it that she is rich and has sold millions of records?  Even if the message is overt, it still works.

Put yourself in the audience for a moment.  The band comes out, plays a tune (so-so performance), says something sort of funny, cranks out another tune, says something else sort of funny, does a CD pitch while mentioning tips, plays two more tunes, pitches the CD's and tips again, plays one last tune, then storms the audience, mentioning tips and CD's for sale.  The crowd is caught up in the hijinks, has been "trained" to buy and tip, and does so.  They tip the "character" they like best (usually the "cute" one or the funniest one or one that appears to have any talent).  They buy the CD (or CDs) as an impulse purchase to capture a piece of novelty.  Would you tip because you thought they were entertaining, despite not being that great?  Would you feel cheated if you didn't know about the formula mentioned in the previous post?  You might not even realize the inner-workings and motivations.  Instead you see a band playing music, making jokes, and collecting tips.

You mention audience animosity - There are those people who hate performers who beg for tips (self included).  They simply won't tip.  There are those who hate commercials.  They simply won't buy.  They aren't the targets.  You wouldn't focus on them anyway.  There are those who don't like pretty boys or girls.  They can key on another performer who looks more like they do.  Remember what I said about having a "character" for everyone to connect with?  That's a very old formula...even the Marx Brothers are said to have used it.  Anyway, when it came time to pay out at the end of the day, it was jokingly called "negative reinforcement."

I must admit being surprised that you wouldn't see or suspect this sort of behavior in business.  If you take a look at yourself, you probably make some kind of effort to get paid to do what you love (playing music).  Maybe you ask for more money.  Maybe you dress better to land a particular job.  Maybe you attend schools to increase your knowledge to empower yourself.  Some people are happy with just enough to get by and are happy.  Others seem to desire more money for many reasons.  Maybe you would love to have one of those large bus/RV's to travel from festival to festival.  What are you willing to do to get it?  Where do you draw the line?  What is acceptable?

I've worked with hucksters, hacks, and even one who I would consider to be genius.  The genius died at the age of 20.  The hucksters are still alive, working at festivals you may attend.  You've probably tipped them.

Thank you for discussing this difficult issue.  Take care, play from the heart, and enjoy life.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Nevik on July 28, 2008, 12:43:37 AM
Quote from: raevyncait on July 28, 2008, 12:30:23 AM
That being said, I have seen groups that, in my opinion, I wouldn't give a cent to, in fact, I go out of my way to avoid them.  I find them to be brash, obnoxious, and in general, mediocre at their craft, at best. Their instrumentation or schtick may be something that I enjoy in other groups, but these just drive me crazy.  Yet, every time I've seen them, performing at gate or in an open area (I avoid the stages at which they perform), the crowd is so thick you can't even see the performers.  Everybody has different tastes

I couldn't agree more.  Taste in entertainment is as subjective as taste in food.  I like Zilch too.  :-)
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: trevor ylisaari on July 29, 2008, 09:02:46 AM
Quote from: Terry Griffith on July 27, 2008, 11:35:11 PM
Nevik,

Hypothetical Question:  Where do you find audiences that dumb?

Not only would I not tip for that kind of act, I wouldn't buy their CDs or recommend the act to anyone, patron or ED.  What makes it all so hard to believe is that I deal with audiences every week all year long in and out of faire and have been doing it for 35 years and that kind of manipulation is always met with audience animosity. 

I'm glad for you that you got out with some dignity and applaud your principle.  I hope you are still performing and enjoying the experience.

I've seen plenty of these audiences.
Here at GLMF we used to have a 3 person comedy team.
Their half hour show slot was at least 15 minutes of hawking to buy their T-shirts, DVDs, and give them tips. Both before and after the show.
Their show, while amusing, wasn't that great, and did not hold up to repeat viewings. At least not for me.
They were loud and very agressive at bringing in the audience. So much so, that it was a nuiscance in other areas of the faire.
They were basically anti-social other than during show time. Never stopped to visit with fans, or hang out in accessable areas like most of the performers do.
They always packed their audence.
Got tons of tips.
And sold lots of merchandise.

I and most of the regulars were actually glad when they were not asked back a few years ago.
But we still get patrons asking if they will be back next season all the time.

I could easily see them pulling down those kinds of numbers at a larger faire in a more affluent area like Texas or California.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: anne of oaktower on July 29, 2008, 12:33:19 PM
Quote from: Terry Griffith on July 27, 2008, 07:00:23 PM
To everyone else; we all make what we are worth to the owner and there is no standard.  You can't say any particular kind of act  gets paid more than any other kind.  If a musical act is good, and by that I mean entertaining musically and in presentation, they will be paid accordingly.  Same for any other kind of act.  Sit in the privy and fart sonatas and if the audience likes it, it will be paid well and receive tips.  Have the best garb and a very polished banter and sing off key and you won't be back.  It's as simple as that.  Most people know what sounds good or makes them laugh or cry or be amazed and our job is to get those reactions and how well we do that should be in ratio to what we are paid. 

Now I'm going to go and practice farting Beethoven's Pathetique for my new act.

Can't wait for your next show...this oughta be good!  I'll be there, but you'll excuse me, of course, if I'm sitting in the back row...with a fan ;)

btw:  I've seen a few acts who should have been locked in the privies!  Talk about stink!

Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: temper on July 31, 2008, 09:36:48 AM
Think I commented about this on the old board but here we go...

I often won't tip acts (usually because I'm too busy prepping our act and I don't get to see them) at faires where I'm performing but I *will* offer water, bring by food or offer shade (more than once we've arrived at a large field and our own tent was the only shade offered to performers)

Our group only charges tips for the Fire Show. People have suggested that we should ask at other of our acts and here is my thinking:
Kids Acts: this is where we break egos of our performers, put on the sheep hat and get out there. In addition, parents have so many others costs, we don't want to add to that. We'd rather interact with the kids -no pressure.
Historical show- this is my baby and I feel that asking for tips is "dirty" for my academic work.
Tournaments-we're part of the atmosphere, tips would break that

But the Fire show? It's expensive for us and we aren't kidding when we say "please contribute to our fuel and burn cream fund" We don't stand in the crowd, we let them come by as they like and we will still be nice to those that don't tip. They paid to get in.  I've never been to a busker event and I understand hustling for hat. I've also worked as a waitress. Waiting tables I would get offended at no tip because that was personalized service.  I *love* doing shows and cut my teeth doing museum presentations so the tip thing never occurs to me  :P
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: aerial angels on August 02, 2008, 12:45:23 AM
There are three parts to being a successful act:

- Pleasing the owners/clients/entertainment director. The person who pays your check and/or asks you back. It takes an exceptionally farsighted fair owner to book an act they personally don't like just because the audience likes it, and there aren't many of those.

- Pleasing the audience, so that they buy your merchandise or tip you, or send emails telling the fair they want you back.

- Being good at what you do.

Each of these three things is important. We'd all like to think/hope/wish that the third element, talent and/or skill is the most important, and I'd certainly weight it more heavily than the other two, but the first two elements count more than we think.

Also - "Being good at what you do" is a broader category than talent or skill at the stated act. That is, being a *musician* or a *comedian* is a different skill than being an *entertainer.*  And being an *entreprenuer* is another skill, too.

I'm part of a circus/variety act. I am a damn good fire-eater and whip-cracker. I am a so-so aerialist. My show trades on aerials, they're visible, they're high energy, they're something a lot of the audience hasn't seen in person before. My partners and I went and trained at a high-level circus school last year, and there were a lot of people in that gym who were much, much better aerialists than me. But I am a pro doing shows, and they are still students waiting for their coach to say, "OK, now you're good enough to perform." And unless the audience sees us back-to-back, they think I'm a terrific aerialist.

My favorite quotes about doing shows -

"The tricks are an excuse for the audience to spend time with you." - they sit down because we yell "fire-eating!", but fire-eating is a five-second trick. The fire-eating section of our show lasts twelve minutes. The remaining 11:55 is all personality. Cheating. Faking it. Being skilled at audience relationships rather than the music or the stunt.

"You can do ten tricks amazingly well, and the audience will like you. You can do one trick and tell ten jokes and the audience will love you and throw money." See above.

A lot of people slam the Tortuga Twins. Yes, their show has a large chunk of give-us-money, buy-our-merchandise. Yes, they don't have a whole lot of specific skills going on. But they aren't about skill. They are about entertainment. And they are very, very good at that. Tartanic may not have been the world's greatest band, but they made audience members love them and give them money. And the ability to take 300 people who walk up in the heat with turkey legs in their hands and make them sit on benches and feel like they are at the greatest party in the world for thirty minutes is a pretty amazing skill. I don't know Tartanic personally, but I've known the Twins for twenty years, and they put in a lot of hard work and effort to be able to do what they do. Like Nevik points out, someone has to strategize. Someone has to plan. Someone has to make the cd's - of whatever quality - happen. And what separates "us professionals" from "those amateurs" is not talent or ability or musicianship, it's drive. It's the ability to say, you know what? I give myself permission to be an act. And maybe I won't be the most skilled person in my craft, but if the people who are better than me are still in the gym, I'm going to get the audience dollars they aren't even asking for.

It's important to feel good about the product you're selling. And yeah, if you hate your act, get the hell out and make an act you love to do - this life is too hard to spend it hating your work. But "selling" is just as important as "product." No-one can buy your great product if you're a worse salesman than the guy next to you with the crap merchandise, and your message - your art - your work that you believe in and want to share - is lost.

The Twins' webmaster, when asked "What do they do?" has stopped trying to explain their act. His answer:

They create rabid fans.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: mistress lilly on September 01, 2008, 07:34:00 PM
Such an interesting topic that has gone down many paths.

There is so much mention of music and cd's and such. What of t-shirts, which is the only form of merch some acts have?
I have been performing for over a decade now, comedy shows, stunt (as in, I will bleed at some point) shows and children's shows. I can tell you that I have had music acts completely trump me in pay, but then it still works out when concidered they need to divide it between multiple members and I didn't.
So much works into a budget than what you *do* on a stage. I would never assume that I should get paid higher because my show has risks. I feel that is completely disrespectful to the hard working musicians with the insanely expensive instruments they expose to the elements and have to maintain. We *all* have risks and expenses as performers. We all calculated those when we decided what type of performance we do. I would much rather be tipped on the level of enjoyment of the show than because I risked something.

The thing is...every single faire is different.
I have done shows that are tip only because they actually pull more in tips than straight pay. I also know some performers who will only do tip shows because of this.
There are split shows, straight pay and tip. It's convenient.
Straight pay is nice always, because as least there is a garuntee of money no matter what. Yet, there is also no chance that you will have a stellar, mind-blowing weekend.
Each has their plusses and minusses, and I don't walk away from an event based solely on if I have to turn a tip or not.

Would I prefer one big tip or several small?
Several small spaced out. If you can give a shout out or set an example by being the first one in, that actually means more to me than the amount you drop because by setting an example, I make more. That helps me out more than an extra $5 would (not that I will dispute an extra $5 mind you! ;) )
I gauge how well we do by the tip we turn vs. people in the audience. We have an estimate we use, if we come in under it then we need to step it up.

I am also an anomoly in that I am a performer with a booth. Over a tip, I prefer you visit my booth. Tell me what you think of the show perhaps pick up something to take home.

Yet, I do not get upset if someone does not tip as I do not know their situation.

At the end of the day, we choose to do this. Don't get me wrong, I'm not all lovey-do-it-for-free but at the heart of it, I chose Ren Faires because I enjoy the "intimacy" of it. I could definately make more money performing elsewhere more frequently (and I do take the other jobs), but it wouldn't be as fun for me to do all the time.  I don't know a single performer who chose this to get rich and have a house in Beverly Hills.
I've heard so many performers complain that someone did not tip or they don't have enough money or.....
My answer to that is always, "Then get out of Ren or get a mundane job."

I love the people. I am grateful when they share our show with us. I am beyond grateful when they tip whatever they can and I am most grateful when they tell us how much they enjoy it.

/soapbox
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Mooncalf on September 08, 2008, 08:37:33 AM
Yes, people tip heavy... If you're getting all ones, you might be doing something wrong.

Anyway, I think I'd prefer that you, the faithful, tip per show.  Although it makes me quite giddy to see a $20 or $50 in the box or hat, those that are on the fence about tipping will leap to the good side, and throw something in.

So, my dear... lead the lemmings off the cliff of joy. :)
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Sarai on September 16, 2008, 11:22:10 AM
I've attended Fairs in the past and I'm currently in my first (and hopefully not last) year as a performer at PRF.

After reading all the points in this thread I have to admit that I 100% agree with Terry. After you've put yourself out there to entertain the crowd, when they get up and leave durning or after your show without so much as an acknowledgement that they had a decent time - let alone a tip - it is like they are screaming "you suck!" And then there is the other side of them problem, when you finish and they sit there because they don't want to lose their seat for the *next* show which is the real reason they are there.

In either case I feel like the last girl picked for dodgeball in gym class.

We do ask for tips at the end of our show, but I'm not sure anyone really listens. I wonder, at the hat passing fairs, if people tune it out.

And speaking as someone who used to be a patron, there isn't a very well developed social system to go with the tipping. For example, you know when you go out to dinner that a tip is expected for the waitstaff. So you plan accordingly. But who really considers the reason for that tip? In theory you tip because that waiter is providing you with a service (refilling drinks, taking your order, bringing your food). But who *thinks* about that when they tip? Most people tip because you are *supposed* to tip.

People don't have that same knee jerk reaction when they see performers. After all, we don't tip the movie actors, because we don't actually see them. And we don't tip live theatre because you know those actors are performing and that they have lines and you don't break the 4th wall. This is common knowledge. But there is much less interaction with buskers and street performers in daily life so people aren't trained.

I wonder sometimes if people consider us like they would live theatre: we are characters (after all, we are) but therefore social norms say you don't interfere with the show for mundane things like money. 

I think, too, a performer needs to come up with a clever way to ask for tips. Saying "please tip" doesn't generate the excitment that gets people to tip.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Terry Griffith on September 16, 2008, 04:42:37 PM
Aye, Sarai, asking seems to be the key.  The amount, just like tipping at all, depends on the custom of the faire.  If it is made known that the tradition is to tip, the appreciative audience will.  If they see others tipping a buck each, thats what they will give.  If they see 5s in the hat, they are more likely to throw in a fiver.  All this depends on if the audience thinks the act is worth tipping, of course.

The "hat line" is the most important thing.  It must not be too subtle or too aggressive.  At some faires you can get away with being aggressive, (see Nevik's posts on this thread) but at faires that I have worked a too aggressive hat line will alienate most people.  I like to point out in my hat line that "it has become the tradition at festivals such as this to show your appreciation by leaving a donation in the entertainers mug"  Then I hold up my half gallon sized mug.  That gets a laugh and the point across.  Subtle but not too aggressive.

Another good idea that I keep forgetting to do is to s"prime" the hat or mug with a couple of 5s.  Most people just throw a buck in but some look in to see what others have given.  I also purposely place the mug next to my CDs rather than in front of me so that people see them when they come up to tip.

One more idea;  the whole act doesn't always have to be high energy but it should build to a high point.  I sing Celtic songs and I like to make people emotional after a good laugh.  It's the ups and downs to the extream that people remember.  However, it should build to something high energy and then don't bring them down with the hat line but keep it in the same vain.  Get them applauding and whistling and then yell  it over the applause.  It draws them down to the stage like offering free beer.  Sometimes.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Lady Nicolette on September 16, 2008, 06:39:57 PM
One thing that I will do from time to time when I'm tipping performers is to announce that others should follow my example, if the setting is proper for me to do so "Everyone, do as I do!"...It's amazing how many people will laugh and then do just what I've suggested.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: aerial angels on September 18, 2008, 08:52:15 AM
The power of the hat line is astonishing.

We changed our hat line this year in June because we were performing on the street in London, and it was a different crowd that needed to hear a different line in order to give.

When we came back to the renfest circuit, our hats were unusually low the first day and a half (we track this information, so it wasn't just a guess).  We changed our hat line back to our original renfest line and hats doubled.

Doubled.

Same show.
Same acts.
Same jokes.
Same performers.

And FOUR SENTENCES were the difference between ones and fives.

So, Sarai, if you don't have a good hat line, start working on one!  Possibly enlisting the help of other performers who have been doing this longer. Because part of getting money is having a good show, and part of it is indeed asking for it in the right way (true for contracting for your daily rate as well as for hat).

We did sit down and analyze what we think makes a good hat line, and we think these are the elements:

- something that says "we're professionals/this is our real job."  We're not students, amateurs, part-timers, hobbyists or pretending, this is it.
- a recommendation for an amount to appropriately give. I had a patron come up to me in Ohio at a street fair who said he was glad we had mentioned a specific amount in our hat line - he had wanted to give $10 "but I didn't know if that was OK, and I didn't want to be the only chump giving too much". Comparisons work well here.
- A joke. Something that makes the audience laugh - without blowing off or undercutting your serious request for money.
- A genuine thank you. Expressing your appreciation for the audience's presence, as well as their money.

Most successful hat lines I have seen change the mood of the show or break out of character - that lets the audience know that you are serious, this is not a joke. The fact that you (hopefully) are just as serious about thanking them as you are about asking for their money makes this dramatically ok as well as strategically good.

My two cents. Or rather, my 50% of your future hat pass worth of experience and hard times, given to you as a free service :)

Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Amelia on October 02, 2008, 09:25:14 PM
While watching - and tipping - the stage acts, don't forget about us street performers too!!  If we have a dollar bill pinned on our outfit somewhere, and/or a basket (or hat) out with money, and we made you smile in some way, please let us know too, just like Terry pointed out.  I can't tell you the number of times that people have told me that they weren't aware that the lane acts or street performers could take tips (no-hat shows being the exception for us too), and there are some of us who can.  Again, look for the signs that the person is able to take tips - a dollar bill attached to our person somehow.  Often times, those of us in the street are paid less money than the stage acts, and rarely have merchandise to sell.  So while we don't live on our tips, they DO help us see our way paycheck to paycheck.

Thank you, and look forward to seeing you all in the streets!!
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Lady Renee Buchanan on October 02, 2008, 09:41:17 PM
One of the most entertaining acts, in my opinion, in the way they ask for tips is Molly & the Tinker.  They make a couple of jokes -- "if you like us, please leave a little something in the hat.  If you don't like us, leave a lot & we won't come back."  This makes the audience laugh.

Then, Molly takes her bodhran and a tambourine.  The bodhran is "tips for Molly."  Then she holds up the little bitty tamborine and says "tips for Tinker."  Of course, everyone cracks up when she does this.  Then she walks around holding both, and the audience puts money in one or the other.  When they put it in Tinker's, she rolls her eyes and says "oh no, no, put it in Molly's."

Everyone has such a good time watching her, that it becomes fun and a means of audience participation.  It only takes a couple of minutes, so people don't feel like too much of the show is spent asking for tips.

They are real professionals and one of our favorite acts at Bristol.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Rolando Darkjester on October 10, 2008, 02:41:11 PM
One of the best hat lines I've heard is from New Orleans street performers ( Who don't get paid by a managment, cause well.. they pay the city for the right to perform)

"Ladies and gentlemen, I hope I've(we've) entertained you today, If so I need your help. This is what I do for a living, And I don't get paid very much to do it, So if I've entertained you, please.. dig deep into your pocket, take your wallet, remove a five, or maybe even a ten dollar bill.. Put that in your pocket and put your wallet right here in my basket"   

The audience knew it was a joke, and laughed, so he got them on an emotional level, plus he'd already predisposed them to the thought of a 'five or ten dollar' bill.

Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Cormac on October 14, 2008, 04:53:18 PM
I learned something new today reading through some of the older post on this thread.  I was not savy to the fact that lane acts could except tips.  I will be much more aware the next time at the faire and act accordingly when I see a bill pinned or placed on someone.

It is a poor act indeed that doesn't recieve some form of tip from me.  I leave from $1-$5 depending on how well I enjoyed the show and whether I will be back that day or not.  If I go to a show twice I will always leave a tip both times.  I figure on 5 or 6 shows a day so that works out to $30 on the high side.  I also tip those serving me beverages or food along with anyone that is especially helpful when I am shopping.  Case in point was the wonderful lady that helped my wife with a bodice.  All told I try to budget about $50 for tips.  I am not rich by any means so I just take the time and lay away for it.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: justsomeguytn on October 15, 2008, 11:52:24 AM
What about performers playing royalty?  Do they ever get tips?
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Terry Griffith on October 15, 2008, 04:40:19 PM
Quote from: justsomeguytn on October 15, 2008, 11:52:24 AM
What about performers playing royalty?  Do they ever get tips?
My wife is on cast as royalty.  She said that it's not uncommon for vendors to "gift"  the members of the royal court and playtrons have given bits of jewelry to wear and occasionally a rose but if someone came up and shoved a dollar in her cleavage it would make her very uncomfortable.  Not to mention her guard slicing off a hand

However, as a side story, I wrote a song to be performed by the King at pub sing.  We were in the lanes one day running over the song and some pirate put a hat down in front of him.  Within seconds, the Queen and several other people started throwing in coins.  It turned into a hilarious bit.

On the other hand, I know a cast member (not royalty) who sang in the lanes and had a tip basket out and when the PTB found out, they were told not to come back next year.

It does seem rather unfair to tip a masquer but not an actor but it just isn't done.  Perhaps it would be different if the royal cast did a stage show and had a communal hat.  Otherwise, it would be destroying the picture that they are trying to create to have a hat line after attending a joust or doing a bit in the lanes. 
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: aerial angels on October 18, 2008, 04:11:29 PM
And...

1) Not everyone is contracted to be able to pass the hat. If a performer puts down a tip basket and they aren't supposed to, that's bad for the performers who have contracted for hat pass privileges.

2) It's nice to have SOMETHING included in the patrons' ticket price. Because when you pay to get in, buy food, buy drink, buy crafts, and then you're also expected to tip everyone you come into contact with, what did you buy in the way in? Really expensive parking?

It truly starts to feel like begging when everyone has their hand out. And it hurts the merchants, too, because people get sick of pulling out their wallet.

Bear in mind, 90% of the street cast at a faire is local and amateur. This is not a statement on their quality, but an observation that they live there and are not making a living as an actor. The 10% who are professionals have negotiated an appropriate fee, knowing in advance whether or not they are passing the hat, and what their on-the-road expenses are like. So it's not really "unfair" to allow some to pass the hat and others not.

Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: justsomeguytn on October 19, 2008, 07:11:54 PM
This time at the Carolina Faire I brought one gift for Lady Quackston, a little light up rubber duck. I'll have to remember to bring lots of gifts for royalty next time.  I brought lots of golden dollar coins to tip the performers but I wished I had brought some more.  I've done some jewelry work (mainly as a hobby) and I had a bunch of silk pouches laying around.  I put a bunch of nickels in one of those and gave it to the Nickle Shakespeare Girls.  I think that might be the best way to handle the gifts next time, have each in a small pouch.  That way if the performer is busy they can just take it and go.  I'll just have to think of a good way to carry the pouches and mark them so the right person gets the right gift.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: jcbanner on October 21, 2008, 01:28:33 AM
Quote from: aerial angels on October 18, 2008, 04:11:29 PM

...
Bear in mind, 90% of the street cast at a faire is local and amateur. This is not a statement on their quality, but an observation that they live there and are not making a living as an actor. The 10% who are professionals have negotiated an appropriate fee, knowing in advance whether or not they are passing the hat, and what their on-the-road expenses are like. So it's not really "unfair" to allow some to pass the hat and others not.

I cant say I agree with the idea of it not being "unfair"
Not the idea itself, just your reasoning.  I'm only speaking from the reference of working faires as a volunteer, I've worked several as a volunteer, but "volunteer" does Not mean "Not professional".  as cast, I have my own expenses, such as gas, or maintenance for the extra few thousand miles a year I put on my car. The hundreds of hours I'll spend in classes, doing research, keeping the site in good repair and working on new construction to better the site, (that includes the stages) or the time and money put into purchasing and/or making garb to strict guidelines, time spent devolving a character and going to rehearsals.  Think I'm exaggerating anything?  If anything, I'm understating.  I volunteer my time, knowledge, skills, and often what little money I have to make sure the show is a good one.  so yes, I'm a volunteer, but don't make the blind assumption that I'm not a professional.

The difference between me and you,  the volunteer and the "professional" is that I don't ask for a paycheck in return.  I'll still drop money in the hat if I enjoyed the show, and I'll never ask for a tip, thats not why I'm here, but if someone comes up to me impressed with what they see me doing, why should I have to turn them away?
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: aerial angels on October 21, 2008, 06:50:14 PM
"Volunteer" DOES mean "not professional."  That's the definition of what a volunteer IS. It's someone who is choosing to give or donate their efforts rather than charging a fee. Note that I specifically stated, "this is not a statement on their quality."

Many volunteer cast members are just as good, or even better than some professional cast members. I'm using those words to designate "making a living" from "not making a living" as a festival worker.

Many volunteers put in more hours than the professionals, who I'm sure you realize have those exact same expenses you list. The difference is this:

The volunteers choose to be there for free. (or for benefits like free tickets, a stipend, a great social life, a chance to share their knowledge, the fun of acting, whatever floats their personal boat).

The professionals choose to be there for pay, plus whatever benefits they can negotiate.

So why should you have to turn away someone who wants to tip you?

1) As I mentioned, it hurts the professionals and the merchants when everyone has their hand out. Patrons get tired of pulling out their wallets. There is a saturation point beyond which people are sick of being asked for money. Volunteers have agreed to be there for free, and the fair is set up to reward the professionals with money and the volunteers with benefits as described above.

2) As I mentioned, if you don't contract for hat pass, you don't get to pass the hat. It's a little like saying, "Well, I know my grocery store says people aren't supposed to tip us, because car carry-out is included, and even though my boss told me not to, people want to give me money so I should get to take it." Um, no. Your boss said so. You signed a contract (or made a verbal agreement) that you wouldn't do it. When you accept money anyway, you break your legally binding contract, or you break your word, or both. Up to you whether your integrity is worth more than a dollar.

3) It hurts the festival. When people start getting the idea that they have to tip everyone they come into contact with, they resist interacting, they pull back, they don't want to get involved. Every improvisation starts to feel like shilling for a buck. Every picture taken with someone's child looks like an open hand. The faire becomes a carnival designed to shake down the rubes for every dime instead of a place where some magic actually may happen in among the commerce.

I'm not a big hat pass fan at renfaires, even though I make a substantially better living because of it. I don't like it when people have to pay to get in and then tip the entertainment. Limiting hat pass to people - whether professional or volunteer - who have negotiated and contracted for it is the best compromise we can get right now.

On a larger philosophical note, it's not your hours, your knowledge, your talent or your ability that makes someone a professional. It's deciding you want to be paid, and being willing to refuse to do the job unless you're paid (there are a fair number of unemployed professionals). You might be the greatest physicist in the world, but if you're splitting the atom in your basement between shifts at the widget factory, what you are is a talented amateur. But hey - professionals built the Titanic. Amateurs built the Ark. 
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Malkavian on October 27, 2008, 07:30:09 PM
As an outside observer I have to say I've found reading this fascinating.  Just yesterday I actually was wondering (while at the CRF) if the royalty accepted/received tips, but wrote it off as "far too awkward even if it is acceptable" so good to see that settled by someone more experienced than I am.


I'm curious about any opinions of tipping vs buying merchandise that anyone might have.  Personally I'm happy to purchase a CD or similar for an act I enjoyed, although I realize the performer doesn't take home much (any?) of the sticker price in that case.  Offhand I would have thought a performer would be glad to sell as many disks/tshirts/whatever as possible, although considering overhead costs and so forth I suppose that might not be.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Terry Griffith on October 27, 2008, 10:31:04 PM
Quote from: Malkavian on October 27, 2008, 07:30:09 PM



I'm curious about any opinions of tipping vs buying merchandise that anyone might have.  Personally I'm happy to purchase a CD or similar for an act I enjoyed, although I realize the performer doesn't take home much (any?) of the sticker price in that case. 

Malkavian, everyone's situation is a little different.  I can only speak for myself and I'm sure those that have a different deal with their merchandise will speak up if they feel differently.  The more CDs I can sell, the bigger percentage I make.  From a profit and loss point of view, my individual tips aren't as much as I can profit from the sale of one CD.  Since I am a single musical act, most of my tips are in the 2 to 5 dollar range.  My profit from the sale of one CD is more than that plus I have the satisfaction of knowing you will be enjoying my music and playing it for others who may enjoy it enough to purchase one.  On top of that is the long range possibility that you will enjoy it enough to purchase follow up recordings.  If you are trying to decide between a $5 tip and buying a $14 CD, I would rather you bought the CD but obviously you will be spending more money and getting something that you will enjoy many times more than my half hour set.  Some other entertainers may feel differently because their CDs are newer and they make less profit for each one but the other benefits I mentioned are still there.  At the end of the day, my hat money will be spent for expenses but my CDs will be enjoyed long after I'm gone.

Do what gives you pleasure.  Contributing to the hat is showing us your appreciation.  Buying a CD returns the gesture for many years.  I live for the day when someone posts to the "What are you listening to" thread with my name and CD title.  I've sold a lot of them so someone must be listening.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: jcbanner on October 28, 2008, 12:25:35 AM
Quote from: aerial angels on October 21, 2008, 06:50:14 PM
"Volunteer" DOES mean "not professional." That's the definition of what a volunteer IS.

Someone should inform Websters Dictionary then, they seemed to have missed that part
Quote
http://mw1.meriam-webster.com/dictionary/volunteer (http://mw1.meriam-webster.com/dictionary/volunteer)
Main Entry:
    1vol·un·teer Listen to the pronunciation of 1volunteer
Pronunciation:
    \?vä-l?n-?tir\
Function:
    noun

1: a person who voluntarily undertakes or expresses a willingness to undertake a service: as a: one who enters into military service voluntarily b (1): one who renders a service or takes part in a transaction while having no legal concern or interest (2): one who receives a conveyance or transfer of property without giving valuable consideration

Quote
It's someone who is choosing to give or donate their efforts rather than charging a fee.
That part I fully agree with. (So does Webster's)  Being a volunteer does not exclude anyone from being a professional, both amateurs and professionals alike may volunteer their time with an organization.


Quote from: aerial angels on October 21, 2008, 06:50:14 PM
On a larger philosophical note, it's not your hours, your knowledge, your talent or your ability that makes someone a professional.

thats EXACTLY what determines a professional. If you don't have the skills, I don't care how much you are getting paid, your an amateur who receives a check.
also note the last line of Webster's definition of professional:
Quote3: following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot>

but this topic is about tipping, not debating if a volunteer can be a professional, we should start a new topic if you want to take it farther.

Back to Tips!

I'd like to note that I also agree with you that people walking around faire asking for tips ruins the event and can be harmful to the performers. But that does not have so much an effect on merchants since that is a different market, so their effects on each other are limited. ( one could even argue that the merchants are even more detrimental to performers then the other way around "I'd leave a tip, but I just spent $95 on a new sword, and $25 for lunch, I only have enough left to get dinner on the way home")

But, in my first post, I never said volunteers should be allowed to ask for tips, I said that if someone wants to give them a tip, they shouldn't be required to turn them away.

I don't mind giving tips at the end of a performance, I consider that a thank you for a job well done.  I also enjoy lane acts that perform continuously, but go through special routine when give a tip, I'll tip them,  but I'm not very fond of the act in response for a tip type acts; those are teh ones where I feel like money is being demanded from me or other viewers. Nothing kills the experience with performers more and I'd rather save my tip for someone I feel earned it, and if that is a volunteer that has a very impressive gig going, then so be it.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: nliedel on October 28, 2008, 08:08:52 AM
At MiRF your contract has to state you can have a hat pass. Most faires are like this. Good, bad or not, it's the way it is. My basket is on the ground before me, but I ain't exactly getting rich on tips. Gas money, which is WONDERFUL and I am beyond grateful for is nice. However musical acts don't get the really good tips, unless you're in a really good pub, and that's fine with me. I do faire cause it's in my blood. A couple of bucks is nice gravy.
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Capt Robertsgrave Thighbiter on October 28, 2008, 01:12:29 PM
We would rather sell CDs then get a tip any day of the week, even though the CDs are more work.
We record, print, package and do everything for our CDs so the profit is better then someone who hands it all over to a record company or has the CDs mass printed, etc. 

We make a point of not asking for tips or making a hat pass, even though we are allowed to.  If someone enjoyed our show enough to want to tip, so be it, but I aways say " hey for another $*.00,  you could take us home with you!  We are a lot cheaper to keep on CD then in person!".   The patron gets to listen to our music at thier leisure and as Terry said, they may like it and buy previous or new releases.

Besides, the number of tips we would have to solicit would be quite high in order to offset the 40-50 CDs we typically sell per day ( yes our CD shill person is merciless!!).


The Brigands.com
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: aerial angels on October 30, 2008, 04:14:23 PM
Quote
Quote from: aerial angels on October 21, 2008, 06:50:14 PM
On a larger philosophical note, it's not your hours, your knowledge, your talent or your ability that makes someone a professional.

Quotethats EXACTLY what determines a professional. If you don't have the skills, I don't care how much you are getting paid, your an amateur who receives a check.

You can split hairs on this all you want. Ultimately, professionals are people paid for their work. Volunteers are people who work for free. Both are capable of being talented and industrious or not. If Marie Curie shows up at the Radium Faire on the weekends for fun, she's a volunteer. If the Governor of Alaska draws a check for her time in the office, she's a professional. You might want to think about what words you can use to define those categories, if the current standard English usage doesn't work for you.

Regardless of definition, my point is, there are people who CONTRACT WITH THE FAIR TO PASS THE HAT. There are people WHO AGREE TO WORK FOR FREE. Why don't we call them "Group A" and "Group B" in order to discuss the issue at hand?

Quote
I'd like to note that I also agree with you that people walking around faire asking for tips ruins the event and can be harmful to the performers. But that does not have so much an effect on merchants since that is a different market, so their effects on each other are limited.

I'd be happy to hear your actual experience in this area. I've been a performer for 15 years at more than 20 faires and was a craft booth worker before that for three years. My personal experience, borne out by the comments of my merchant and performer friends, is that merchants do better at no-hat shows. It is not a different market, and the effects are about 30%.

Quote
But, in my first post, I never said volunteers should be allowed to ask for tips, I said that if someone wants to give them a tip, they shouldn't be required to turn them away.

Then I suppose it boils down to whether the performer in question has the personal integrity to honor the agreement they made with the faire.

Quote
I don't mind giving tips at the end of a performance, I consider that a thank you for a job well done.  I also enjoy lane acts that perform continuously, but go through special routine when give a tip, I'll tip them,  but I'm not very fond of the act in response for a tip type acts; those are teh ones where I feel like money is being demanded from me or other viewers. Nothing kills the experience with performers more and I'd rather save my tip for someone I feel earned it, and if that is a volunteer that has a very impressive gig going, then so be it.

The issue is not quality of performance - as I originally stated.

The issue is not even professional vs volunteer - as I originally stated.

The issue is that some people at a faire have CONTRACTED to pass the hat. They are entitled to do so, and the fair is set up to allow them to do that as part of their expected wage. Other people at the fair have CONTRACTED not to pass the hat. If they choose to sell their integrity for a dollar, that's their personal thing.

My performers are aerialists. They contract with me not to drink alcohol before the end of the day. I made that rule because it endangers their safety and the safety of others if they drink. But hey, they're thinking adults, they know their tolerance, so if someone offers them a beer to express their appreciation, why should they be required to turn it away? Well, because I'll fire their weed puller. Not because I don't trust their ability to know how much they can drink and still perform, but because it's a rule I made for reasons I have, and I'd rather not work with someone whose integrity does not extend to honoring their agreement with me.

So, JCBanner, how about you? Does your integrity cost a dollar, or does it cost as much as five to get you to break your contract with the faire?
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: jcbanner on October 30, 2008, 05:33:47 PM

Quote from: aerial angels on October 30, 2008, 04:14:23 PM

So, JCBanner, how about you? Does your integrity cost a dollar, or does it cost as much as five to get you to break your contract with the faire?

Thats a fair enough question, Zero.  I have never accepted a tip at faire, anytime someone offers to give me one, I thank them and tell them I'm not allowed to accept it, but they may donate it to the faire with a note about what they were impressed with if they feel so inclined. 

I'm not allowed to take tips, so I don't, but that doesn't mean I agree that I should have to turn them away. 

There is a difference between being allowed to ask for and receive tips, and only being allowed to receive tips without asking.
My argument from the start has not been that anyone should be able to ask for tips, only that no performer should be required to turn them away. 
Title: Re: Tipping
Post by: Poldugarian Warrior on February 12, 2009, 01:47:55 AM
I'm not a performer, but I have to say. That anyone getting up on stage in front of a crowd, in costume and giving a performance no matter what skill level  volunteer, amateur or professional. If I was entertained or the crowd was then that person did their job. And to show my appreciation I do like to tip and if a cd or dvd is produced maybe even buy that, and personally thank that person(s) for showing up to work that day, because it makes my work week and sometimes the rest of the year better. Because I can think back on what a good time I had watching the show. As far as faire paying acts, I feel all whom participate should be paid handsomely for showing up but of course all according to what type of act and how much experience just like any other job., and then the tips are just extra.