I just wanted to throw out a warning to everyone who was out at TRF closing weekend.
Someone may have been out there skimming credit card numbers from the crowd.
My card (which rarely gets used) went to Faire with me Saturday and now I have 4 transactions that I never authorized.
Totaling close to $1000.00.
I do not believe this is a vendor or TRF employee. I only used that card for 1 purchase and the vendor is a good friend.
I think the scum had a digital skimmer and just used it in crowds to find unprotected cards.
I am heading out to buy protective sleeves for all of my cards.
Watch you accounts just in case.
I have one card that uses that technology and I won't carry it for that very reason. I don't have a sleeve for it yet.
I microwaved mine as soon as I got them. My Amex is clear plastic and you can see the chip. But its dead as a doornail. The magnetic strip still works for manual transactions.
Your problem is exactly why I treat my cards as I do.
Microwave? Do tell? I know my Amex has one too, what if it's not clear and your not sure?
Thank God mine are all of the old magnetic strip variety. Not cool. Hope your bank's fraud department is helpful.
I hate a thief.... more than most any other thing on earth.
Quote from: KiltedPrivateer on November 30, 2011, 03:42:10 PM
Thank God mine are all of the old magnetic strip variety. Not cool. Hope your bank's fraud department is helpful.
Yeah Wells Fargo caught it about a day before I did and froze the card. They were really helpful.
Theft sucks especially when it is an unseen event. At least if I was dumb enough I could chase a mugger or burglar.
OHHH Hell I am in Texas!!!! I could shoot a mugger or burglar. ;D
I asked the Lovely Lady Trinn about this to make sure I had accurate information and this was what she sent back. For those who don't know, my wife works for a financial institution and knows what she is talking about in this area.
DO NOT microwave your cards. That doesn't do anything except ruin your card. I replace many here at work because of people doing that.
The information may have been collected from the company the vendor was using to transmit the card info for approval. That is the most common way. Skimming in a crowd is the least common method. I'm not even sure it's actually possible. Thieves of this nature, like any thief, take the route of least resistance. If they can collect info anonymously they will elect that method almost every time.
What usually happens is card info is collected, card numbers are then added to some type of report and the would be thieves go thru the report using each card number trying to get a 'live' one. They will use that card number until it's blocked and move on to the next one. When this kind of thing happens to you it's assumed that it happened the very last time you used your card which may not be the case but just coincidence.
Sadly as technology advances so do the criminals. The best way to combat something like this is constant due diligence. Look at your account often and keep it reconciled. Don't let your cards leave your side and make sure to look at ATM's before you use them to make sure they haven't been tampered with. The important thing to remember here is even though things like this may happen from time to time, and they are a nuisance, you at least have legal leverage and your financial institution will help you correct the fraudulent error. If you give up cards completely and carry cash you have no recourse what so ever if that is stolen from you.
Hope this helps at least someone
*I spend my efforts protecting my rum... just in case*
Skimming with the newer "proximity" cards is most definitely possible. I've seen it demonstrated, and that is why there are companies making the sleeves that Bryan mentioned, and there are now some wallets being manufactured that provide the protection. The chips work similarly to the ones they use to stop shoplifting. Contact is no longer required.
As Teach said, however, due diligence is required. I monitor my cards, my bank accounts, and my credit reports frequently...no less than weekly, and some accounts daily. I have gotten calls from my credit card fraud units when they've noticed something unusual. These days, they say they hold their card carriers harmless for fraud, but there is some small print.
*I spend time protecting my Jack Daniel's...just by swallowing it...just in case* ;)
Smart Cards:
The user must corroborate his identity to the card each time a transaction is made, in much the same way that a PIN is used with an ATM.
The card and the card reader execute a sequence of encrypted sign/countersign-like exchanges to verify that each is dealing with a legitimate counterpart.
Once this has been established, the transaction itself is carried out in encrypted form to prevent anyone, including the cardholder or the merchant whose card reader is involved, from "eavesdropping" on the exchange and later impersonating either party to defraud the system.
Credit card cloning, or "skimming" as it is sometimes called, is a new technique whereby someone obtains your credit card details, copies them onto a bogus card and begins using the credit card. While credit card theft itself is not new, the manner in which the information is stolen is.
The first step is to recruit an individual willing to participate in the scheme. Bartenders, wait staff or shop assistants are often prime targets because of the sheer volume of credit cards they handle.
Recruits are given a pocketsize device with a scanning slot, something that resembles a pager and can be worn on a belt. They are instructed to swipe customers' credit cards through the device. Because the process takes only a few seconds it can be done easily and inconspicuously without the customer or another employee noticing.
Swiping the credit card through the device copies the information held on the magnetic strip into memory. That information can subsequently be copied to a counterfeit card, complete with security holograms.
Alternatively, the information can be used to overwrite a stolen credit card which has become too hot to handle.
Do not underestimate the size of this problem. In the U.K. alone an astonishing $200m was spent with cloned credit cards in 2000. That's over $500,000 every single day!
So how do you protect yourself?
One solution lies in smart chip credit cards. Smart chips are microchips embedded in some credit cards that encrypt the information contained in the magnetic strip. The microchip cannot be changed or deleted. If a skimmer tries to scan your card through the device, they will obtain only encrypted information and thus be unable to clone your credit card. If someone steals your smart card and disables the chip, the new swipe terminals will alert staff to ask for an ID or decline the transaction.
With that said, the data that they may obtain would virtually be useless. The sleeves they sale to protect these cards are about as useful as the cell phone stickers they used to sell that boosted reception. Same idea with the covers for license plates to block some forms of speed traps.
But look at the good side. Your smart cards do not have a power source. They work like security badges that you wave in front of scanners. The scanners transmits a radio signal that powers the chip so that it can be read. So if someone was walking around with a scanner, the radio wave being transmitted would have to be so powerful that they are more than likely sterilizing themselves. ;D ;D ;D
So it is a win-win situation. haha
WOW I didn't know a simple "heads up" posting would illicit such great advise and information
Thanks everyone for sharing.
I was told all you have to do to stop them skimming them is place a layer of aluminum foil(any metal) around the sleeve in your wallet or stack your cards to make the signals garbled.... I have had no problem with my cards until Visa got hacked...they had to fix it and it was my debit/credit card they got.... Otherwise I use the stacked mess method of card carry!!!
The greatest thing I saw during my trip to Montreal, QC was portable CC machines. Everywhere I went, especially restaurants, a portable CC scanner is brought to you. Your CC never leaves your sight. You hand the CC to the merchant who scans the card through the reader then hands it back to you. They then enter the total and then hand you the reader so that you can accept the total, and in the case of a restaurant you can enter a tip. You press OK and the machine prints out your receipt.
I have no idea why these are not used here in the States, but they should be.
I would have to know more about those... I would worry that the transmitter signal could be snagged like they can with wireless computer connections. I'm paranoid about that. I guess I've been in IT too long. I don't trust computers.
Quote from: Merlin the Elder on November 30, 2011, 08:33:01 PM
I would have to know more about those... I would worry that the transmitter signal could be snagged like they can with wireless computer connections. I'm paranoid about that. I guess I've been in IT too long. I don't trust computers.
I was thinking the same thing. If they're Wi-Fi connected "Terminals/PC's", then are they using the latest, strongest encryption to set up a secure communication link to the server?
Even though you're more than a thousand years older than me, I've been working on electronics for a long time (since the 1980's), and I still choose to have my bills mailed to me rather than to only trust electronic billing and emails to let me know when to pay. ;) 8)
Take Care,
David Baldock
Well with the encryption out today, it would take a Cray Super Computer years and years to crack whatever, if anything, they were able to obtain through a wireless connection. Even though those handheld credit card scanners are wireless, they are using an encrypted signal sent back via the wifi back to their host computer or in house computer. I know when I used to own a business and accepted credit cards over the Internet, the credit card companies were serious about security. Things were either done their way, or no way.
Anything can be hacked. But in the amount of time it takes to crack the encryption, you will already be on your 3 or 4 card, since they do expire. :) Like Trinn said, they get the number from much easier sources. And it could be months before they get around to using your card since they will more than likely be going thru a stack of card numbers.
And unfortunately, I was one of those poor souls that spent 14 years in IT as well.
Interesting news article about RFID and skimming...
what you think ;-)
http://www.newschannel5.com/story/15982718/high-tech-pickpockets-can-steal-credit-card-info (http://www.newschannel5.com/story/15982718/high-tech-pickpockets-can-steal-credit-card-info)
Notice this is a recent report.
Also, gotta love that in some cases your own smart phone can scan the card while IN your pocket.
Go do a youtube search on 'credit card rfid skimming' to see a plethora of 'how to' videos.
If your card # and expiration date are important to you, beware...
Stalk well...
Quote from: Stalkwell on December 01, 2011, 06:10:46 PM
Interesting news article about RFID and skimming...
what you think ;-)
http://www.newschannel5.com/story/15982718/high-tech-pickpockets-can-steal-credit-card-info (http://www.newschannel5.com/story/15982718/high-tech-pickpockets-can-steal-credit-card-info)
Notice this is a recent report.
Also, gotta love that in some cases your own smart phone can scan the card while IN your pocket.
Go do a youtube search on 'credit card rfid skimming' to see a plethora of 'how to' videos.
If your card # and expiration date are important to you, beware...
Stalk well...
Interesting article. But I would feel a little more inclined to believe it if the interviewee was not the owner of a company that profits off of the sales of products that protect against skimming and such. Maybe this would be a good test for Mythbusters. :)
Needless to say, this is still worth investigating more.
Quote from: Glaodian on December 01, 2011, 07:23:25 PM
Quote from: Stalkwell on December 01, 2011, 06:10:46 PM
Interesting news article about RFID and skimming...
what you think ;-)
http://www.newschannel5.com/story/15982718/high-tech-pickpockets-can-steal-credit-card-info (http://www.newschannel5.com/story/15982718/high-tech-pickpockets-can-steal-credit-card-info)
Notice this is a recent report.
Also, gotta love that in some cases your own smart phone can scan the card while IN your pocket.
Go do a youtube search on 'credit card rfid skimming' to see a plethora of 'how to' videos.
If your card # and expiration date are important to you, beware...
Stalk well...
Interesting article. But I would feel a little more inclined to believe it if the interviewee was not the owner of a company that profits off of the sales of products that protect against skimming and such. Maybe this would be a good test for Mythbusters. :)
Needless to say, this is still worth investigating more.
Agreed!
Take a look at your cards, odds are it isn't one of these. Your greatest threat is still physical credit card theft, or information taken off the card via those physical swipe machines.
Risks are relative.
When it comes to online purchases, I have found the best protection is American Express. I even have it attached to my PayPal. From both a merchant perspective and a consumer perspective, I have seen Amex act fast on fraud.
Quote from: Glaodian on December 02, 2011, 01:09:32 PM
When it comes to online purchases, I have found the best protection is American Express. I even have it attached to my PayPal. From both a merchant perspective and a consumer perspective, I have seen Amex act fast on fraud.
And I wouldn't have AmEx if someone else was paying the bill. I used to work for a major credit bureau, and had a file come across my desk. Consumer's Amex and another card number were stolen (along with many other people's) from the filing cabinet in the office of their health club, by the janitors. Consumer submitted complete court transcripts of the trial, in which the janitors ADMITTED TO THE THEFT & TOOK A GUILTY PLEA. Other card wiped charges out. AMEX had not only refused to wipe charges out, they charged account off as a bad debt and refused to remove it from the consumer's report, insisting that it stay for the 7 year statute of limitations. I even called AMEX and they admitted having received the transcripts and acknowledged that the charges were fraudulent, but still wouldn't remove it. After speaking with my supervisor and reviewing the transcripts with our legal department, we deleted it using the "hard" delete code, which would then prevent AMEX from re-adding it.
I know a lot of merchants won't sign up for AMEX because of the super high fees. It may have changed some since I was in retail, but it used to be that AMEX cost to the merchant was double Visa or MasterCard. I've never had an AMEX card, but they sure want me to have one. I get at least an invite a week from them.
Quote from: escherblacksmith on December 02, 2011, 12:35:13 PM
Take a look at your cards, odds are it isn't one of these.
Guaranteed it isn't one of mine, and that's by conscious choice. All of my blink cards are destroyed and replaced with non-blink ones from the issuing entity as soon as I receive them. Have been since blink cards started showing up on my doorstep. I see no convenience, and don't want the liability.
I can't conceive of blink cards (reardless of encryption method) being more secure than our doting government's pasports, and the rest of the world sees these as vulnerable.
Stalk well...
Quote from: raevyncait on December 02, 2011, 03:06:03 PM
Quote from: Glaodian on December 02, 2011, 01:09:32 PM
When it comes to online purchases, I have found the best protection is American Express. I even have it attached to my PayPal. From both a merchant perspective and a consumer perspective, I have seen Amex act fast on fraud.
And I wouldn't have AmEx if someone else was paying the bill. I used to work for a major credit bureau, and had a file come across my desk. Consumer's Amex and another card number were stolen (along with many other people's) from the filing cabinet in the office of their health club, by the janitors. Consumer submitted complete court transcripts of the trial, in which the janitors ADMITTED TO THE THEFT & TOOK A GUILTY PLEA. Other card wiped charges out. AMEX had not only refused to wipe charges out, they charged account off as a bad debt and refused to remove it from the consumer's report, insisting that it stay for the 7 year statute of limitations. I even called AMEX and they admitted having received the transcripts and acknowledged that the charges were fraudulent, but still wouldn't remove it. After speaking with my supervisor and reviewing the transcripts with our legal department, we deleted it using the "hard" delete code, which would then prevent AMEX from re-adding it.
That does suck. I had Amex call me a couple of years ago and they told me someone was off using my card somewhere. So they canceled that card and issued me a new one. I had a new card in hand 48 hours later and all of the charges were removed. Not sure why this other person was held to the charges, but I never had been.
As for the merchant fees, it all depends on how much volume you take in. I think I was only taking in a few thousand a month on Amex, so the fee was set and very low. Cheaper than VISA/MC. My fees for those two alone were over $25k a month.
But I guess it all depends on who you talk to. Some say they would not drive a Ford because their friends all had problems, and others would say the same about a Chevy. Cant really make everyone happy. All you can do is respect their opnion and move on, knowing you are right and they are wrong. HAHA. Just kidding about that last part. ;D
Quote from: Glaodian on December 02, 2011, 03:59:39 PM...
As for the merchant fees, it all depends on how much volume you take in. I think I was only taking in a few thousand a month on Amex, so the fee was set and very low. Cheaper than VISA/MC. My fees for those two alone were over $25k a month.
...
Fee structures have apparently changed considerably in the past 15 years. It used to be, the lower your volume, the higher the percentage cost to use the service. Small to moderate businesses were charge 6.5-8% for AMEX, and right around 3% for Visa/MC. To generate $25k in fees a month, back then, you would have had to have been running over $2.5 million a month to cost you that (with the volume discounts). Good grief! What's the percentage these days!?!?
My percentages were a bit higher than most due to the fact that all of my transactions were Internet based. From 1999-2006 I owned a dial-up Internet company and had over 17,000 access numbers I was leasing across the 48 states and Canada with at my peak, I had over 150k users not counting my web hosting accounts. Since I never had the cards in hand when I was charging them, I was charged a higher percentage. Though I do not remember what those numbers were. All I remember was what my AP girl used to ramble on about when I asked where all of the money was going. ;D
In that market at that time trying to cover all 48 states (Hawaii and Alaska cost too much to lease lines in), my overhead was aroun 80% per customer. So volume was the key.
When we went to Britain this summer, we had a dedicated card with a certain amount of money, which we thought would be perfect. As is turns out, card use in the UK is fundamentally different, they have almost completely gotten rid of "cards." They use a hand-held swiper. Merchants there looked at our card like it was a historical relic.
We are way behind the rest of the world on this front, bummer.
Quote from: majikah on January 12, 2012, 10:04:30 AM
When we went to Britain this summer, we had a dedicated card with a certain amount of money, which we thought would be perfect. As is turns out, card use in the UK is fundamentally different, they have almost completely gotten rid of "cards." They use a hand-held swiper. Merchants there looked at our card like it was a historical relic.
We are way behind the rest of the world on this front, bummer.
I was going to say something similar. Most cards there have the chips & we had to be sure to tell cashiers that ours didn't. There was only one place that I couldn't use it but it was a bit of a hassle.
IIRC all cards in the US are going to have to have chips in a few years. If you decide to go overseas before that happens I suggest you get a credit cars with a chip from your bank or credit card company. I imagine it's going to only become more difficult to use non-chipped cards overseas.
Or you use the more than one ATM on every block and pull out just enough cash for the day.. They use a TON of cash over there.. I've seen and heard the amount of transations on ATM's they use over there compared to ours here, its mind boggling. No really it is..